God is an Impossibility

[Age]

So, let me get this straight just so the readers can easily understand. You want me as you say to; "Go ahead and make an unambiguous claim about reality", yet you do not "play" the define (x) "game". You want me to make an unambiguous claim about some thing, which I ask you to clarify what that thing is, yet you will NOT or can NOT do it. WHY, some may ask?

Because my claim is ambiguous.

Your claim is only ambiguous, to you. That is because of HOW the actual belief-system works. You are unable to see any thing contrary to your BELIEF.

I honest and open about it. Any definition or claim I give you about reality is contingent. It has SOME exception. An error.

If that is what you BELIEVE is true, then so be it.

By the way I was NOT playing a game. I just asked you a very simple clarifying question. Oh, and I have defined it. That definition fits in perfectly together with other definitions of words and forms a big and true and accurate picture of ALL-THERE-IS.

You mean the circular definition of the English language

NO, NOT AT ALL. Remember that is the BELIEF you have. And, what you BELIEVE is NOT necessarily TRUE.

You mistake the complex for the simple. You are trapped in language - I am not

I do NOT mistake the complex for the simple. To me, there is NO complex. But you will have to see from My perspective to be even remotely be able to see and understand that.

You may well be right, here?

I know. All models are wrong!

I KNOW you know all models are wrong. I also KNOW that is what you BELIEVE is true. I KNOW this because this is the human being already constructed knowledge that you are being led by AND want to follow. You are doing the thing that human beings are taught to do. That is; learn to look up and follow others, all being lead to your own demise because of your own stupidity. Adult human beings can be to smart for their own good. You will continue being lead and going wherever you are lead to even if it is to your own death just because of the MANTRA of others that you BELIEVE in. All adult human beings are as bad as each other. No matter if you are of scientific ilk or religious ilk you ALL behave the exact same sheep-like way.

How do you define 'equivocate'?

Saying the same thing using different words. Truism. No new information.

As I say, looking from and through BELIEFS will you NEVER arrive at nor see new information.

Wrong
Wrong
Wrong, and
Wrong,

I know. All models are wrong.

So, every thing you say through the models you make ARE WRONG.

And yet you offer no better definition?

What for?

What would be the purpose?

You, human beings, may have not yet succeeded, in that year some of you, human beings, call 2018. But I have.

Oh, you have succeeded in defining 'the universe then'? Show me! (in a Morpheus voice).

Why?

What for?

You can read, and link, as much, and more and more, of human beings' constructed knowledge, but that will NOT get you anyway. Language, as you say, IS circular. The knowledge that you are showing and using here comes from, and through, language. The only place you will arrive at reading and believing that human being knowledge is in a fast downward spiral, of which that is exactly all human beings are right now in "2018".

That "downward spiral" you have identified is called recursion. Like the Russian dolls.

Recursion is computation. It converges.

You really can NOT look out and see past, through, nor outside of this BELIEF of yours, can you?

The downward spiral I was talking about is the one of your own demise! You say you will not define words you ask to to provide a fact for, YET you now BELIEVE that you can and will define a term I use. Once again misunderstanding, misinterpretation and taking out of context the actual words that I use and what I have said.

[TimeSeeker]

Your claim is only ambiguous, to you. That is because of HOW the actual belief-system works. You are unable to see any thing contrary to your BELIEF.

Ad hominem. Try me. Provide something contrary to my belief that is TESTABLE and FALSIFIABLE.

If that is what you BELIEVE is true, then so be it.

Well, I KNOW it's true beyond reasonable doubt. Until you prove me wrong.

NO, NOT AT ALL. Remember that is the BELIEF you have. And, what you BELIEVE is NOT necessarily TRUE.

It's not necessarily false either.

I do NOT mistake the complex for the simple. To me, there is NO complex. But you will have to see from My perspective to be even remotely be able to see and understand that.

Well, I happen to be a computer scientist/physicist/mathematician and I am telling you that complexity is a thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALL_(complexity)

But you need to learn some Mathematics to recognize it. English is not good enough.

And so if you claim to be as open minded as you want to be, then you ought to consider that you are wrong about complexity?

I KNOW you know all models are wrong. I also KNOW that is what you BELIEVE is true. I KNOW this because this is the human being already constructed knowledge that you are being led by AND want to follow. You are doing the thing that human beings are taught to do. That is; learn to look up and follow others, all being lead to your own demise because of your own stupidity.

OK, so you think I am blindly following orders and I am being led to the slaughter house? Then you will correct my error in reasoning then, won't you?

Adult human beings can be to smart for their own good. You will continue being lead and going wherever you are lead to even if it is to your own death just because of the MANTRA of others that you BELIEVE in. All adult human beings are as bad as each other. No matter if you are of scientific ilk or religious ilk you ALL behave the exact same sheep-like way.

OK. Then correct my behavior? Point out an error in my reasoning.

As we have already agreed - neither of us wants us to be wrong. Both of us want to be less wrong. Help me be less wrong!

As I say, looking from and through BELIEFS will you NEVER arrive at nor see new information.

You can't see my beliefs. You haven't mastered the scientific method yet.

So, every thing you say through the models you make ARE WRONG.

You continue to CRITICIZE ME, without offering a better way. I am still waiting for counter-evidence.

What for?

What would be the purpose?

Being, collectively, less wrong? Teaching ME benefits YOU. Less stupid people in the world to worry about!

Why?

What for?

Teaching ME benefits YOU. Less stupid people in the world to worry about!

You really can NOT look out and see past, through, nor outside of this BELIEF of yours, can you?

You haven't taught me how to see the world in a better way than the way I see it now. This is the only way I know how. Show me a better way.

The downward spiral I was talking about is the one of your own demise! You say you will not define words you ask to to provide a fact for, YET you now BELIEVE that you can and will define a term I use. Once again misunderstanding, misinterpretation and taking out of context the actual words that I use and what I have said.

And yet you can't prove my BELIEFS wrong? What's going on here?

[Atla]

Absolute perfection has already been proven empirically to already exist.

To exist IS absolute perfection. Existing IS living in absolute perfection. Existing, by definition, IS observing AND experiencing.

To be a truly Self-aware Being able to observe AND experience that, what I am creating, IS absolute perfection.

What do you mean by "absolute perfection" by the way?

The absolute just is, technically we are the absolute, we are existence itself. But in what way is that perfect? Do you mean something like: it couldn't be any other way?

[Age]

Yes, a very good assumption you just made, this time.

Now, continue on with what is about to take place. That is; the exact same usual things that human beings do when I place in this situation. The predictability of what is just about to happen will be becoming far more obvious to some of you readers and observers now.

Except I don't believe you I observe you ACTING on your BELIEFS all the time.

EXACTLY as I predicted. As soon as I place human beings where I want them they react so predictably.

Provide at least one so called BELIEF that you say you observe me ACTING on.

Also what you call "belief" and what I call "belief" is vastly different.

How do you KNOW it WILL BE vastly different?

For example - you believe that drinking water quenches your thirst. If you didn't you'd probably be dead.[/quote]

BELIEFS have completely and utterly distorted you from the actual TRUTH of things. Just as I predicted.

You can BELIEVE that if you like. But if it is true or not is a whole completely other matter.

You believe that engaging in debate is beneficial. Else you wouldn't do it.

Once again the exact same sort of ridiculous response. Just as I predicted would happen.

This time it is even worse. I have already written about my disdain for debate and how I do not partake in it. Yet words like the above appear before our eyes.

And so belief MUST have some consequences. Consequences expressed in actions OR words. A belief without consequences is a non-sensical/unscientific notion. Because a "belief" without consequences is untestable AND unfalsifiable! It is an input without an output.

How do you define 'BELIEF'?

You said it would be vastly different between mine. So, let us see if it really is?

P.S you didn't make any predictions. You claimed that you are going to predict something. But you didn't state what it was A PRIORI.

P.S. Yes I have already. Making predictions is part of my studies. I have already expressed, in other places, to other observers what will happen and take place here, which you have almost 100% already proven Me correct.

I guess I could say: you predicted that you are going to predict something What you didn't say if your prediction is going to be, or whether your prediction is going to be right or wrong.

Surely, even to you, it would NOT make any sense to write down and show you here BEFORE what I predicted you were going to do just now, which you have already just proven correct. Obviously, you would NOT have reacted the exact same way as you just did if I had earlier informed you of what I predicted you would do.

The observers of these writings, which are the ones that I have ALREADY informed would happen HERE, will be the ones to verify this.

[Age]

Absolute perfection has already been proven empirically to already exist.

To exist IS absolute perfection. Existing IS living in absolute perfection. Existing, by definition, IS observing AND experiencing.

To be a truly Self-aware Being able to observe AND experience that, what I am creating, IS absolute perfection.

What do you mean by "absolute perfection" by the way?

Thanks for the clarifying question. Some others forget to ask for clarification BEFORE they jump in saying things like; 'absolute perfection' is impossible.

The absolute just is, technically we are the absolute, we are existence itself. But in what way is that perfect? Do you mean something like: it couldn't be any other way?

What you have expressed here is pretty close and close enough to the mark, for now.

Honestly I had not given it much thought prior to this moment. But, still, that does NOT deflect from the fact that the 'absolute perfection' of the Universe, exists RIGHT HERE and NOW. How could that be shown and demonstrated to be false?

[TimeSeeker]

EXACTLY as I predicted. As soon as I place human beings where I want them they react so predictably.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindsight_bias

You need to announce your prediction BEFORE the experiment, stupid

Provide at least one so called BELIEF that you say you observe me ACTING on.

You are engaging me in debate. Therefore I conclude that you think it's beneficial. To somebody, somewhere. Otherwise you wouldn't do it.

How do you KNOW it WILL BE vastly different?

Because I am observing how you use the word and it's different to how I use the word. I have inferred (to some degree of certainty) how you use it.

BELIEFS have completely and utterly distorted you from the actual TRUTH of things. Just as I predicted.

You can BELIEVE that if you like. But if it is true or not is a whole completely other matter.

So you don't believe water quenches your thirst? Leave my beliefs alone. Focus on my conclusions

What goes on in my head is none of your business.

Once again the exact same sort of ridiculous response. Just as I predicted would happen.

Next time, announce your predictions I know how to do science like you too.

I predict that Age will say "Once again the exact same sort of ridiculous response. Just as I predicted would happen." 5 minutes ago!

Look. I also predicted

I have already written about my disdain for debate and how I do not partake in it. Yet words like the above appear before our eyes.

Yet here you are. Participating. Like my grandmother said: actions speak louder than words
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performat ... tradiction

How do you define 'BELIEF'?

I don't care to define it. I only care to measure it. How I measure belief is in actions, and sometimes words.
This is called "stated vs revealed preferences" to a scientist.

P.S. Yes I have already. Making predictions is part of my studies. I have already expressed, in other places, to other observers what will happen and take place here, which you have almost 100% already proven Me correct.

If you say so. Would you like me to hold you accountable to your claims? By forcing you to announce your predictions A PRIORI.
Rather than proclaim EUREKA a posteriori?

Surely, even to you, it would NOT make any sense to write down and show you here BEFORE what I predicted you were going to do just now, which you have already just proven correct. Obviously, you would NOT have reacted the exact same way as you just did if I had earlier informed you of what I predicted you would do.

Well, I predict that you are frustrated. I predict that you think I am arrogant. I predict that you think I am wrong.

The observers of these writings, which are the ones that I have ALREADY informed would happen HERE, will be the ones to verify this.

[TimeSeeker]

Honestly I had not given it much thought prior to this moment. But, still, that does NOT deflect from the fact that the 'absolute perfection' of the Universe, exists RIGHT HERE and NOW. How could that be shown and demonstrated to be false?

Don't forget: you also said that you can improve "absolute perfection". Important little detail

So even if "it couldn't be any other way", then you are necessarily arguing against free will.

[Atla]

What you have expressed here is pretty close and close enough to the mark, for now.

Honestly I had not given it much thought prior to this moment. But, still, that does NOT deflect from the fact that the 'absolute perfection' of the Universe, exists RIGHT HERE and NOW. How could that be shown and demonstrated to be false?

Well I mean, the "Absolute" just IS. To me, calling it perfect is sort of slightly redundant, and can be slightly distorting, especially when accompanied by some feeling, some sensation.

[Age]

Your claim is only ambiguous, to you. That is because of HOW the actual belief-system works. You are unable to see any thing contrary to your BELIEF.

Ad hominem.

What do you mean by 'ad hominem' here?

Try me. Provide something contrary to my belief that is TESTABLE and FALSIFIABLE.

Which BELIEF do you want me to provide some thing contrary to?

You pick the BELIEF that you have, and I will tell you if I can provide what you are looking for or not.

By the way, you have missed the WHOLE point, once again.

If that is what you BELIEVE is true, then so be it.

Well, I KNOW it's true beyond reasonable doubt. Until you prove me wrong.

You missed the WHOLE POINT, again.

Well no one nor no thing can prove you wrong. That is; because you KNOW, for sure 100% that you are RIGHT, and, because you BELIEVE you are RIGHT.

So far I have not been able to uncover any thing that is able to penetrate a BELIEF.

NO, NOT AT ALL. Remember that is the BELIEF you have. And, what you BELIEVE is NOT necessarily TRUE.

It's not necessarily false either.

I NEVER said it was, would be, nor will be.

You have just ASSUMED that is what i have been saying. Thus THEE REASON WHY you are continually missing my WHOLE POINT.

I do NOT mistake the complex for the simple. To me, there is NO complex. But you will have to see from My perspective to be even remotely be able to see and understand that.

Well, I happen to be a computer scientist/physicist/mathematician and I am telling you that complexity is a thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALL_(complexity)

Well, I do NOT care one iota who nor what you THINK you are.

What 'you' actually are IS completely different from what you THINK you are, at the moment.

But you need to learn some Mathematics to recognize it. English is not good enough.

So you BELIEVE.

This is your "reasoned logic" now; You need to learn some mathematics to recognize complexity. In order to find and see complexity, and thus become some what confused and perplexed, I need to learn some thing like mathematics. To me, this sort of defeats the purpose in learning some thing more or anew. By the way I learned some mathematics.

How much do I have to actually learn before I start recognizing complexity in life.

I have already spent most of my life seeing, and recognizing complex things, But now I can NOT see complexity any where. Every where I look now I see simplicity. WHY would I want to go backwards?

And so if you claim to be as open minded as you want to be, then you ought to consider that you are wrong about complexity?

If I say I do not see complexity, then HOW could that be wrong about complexity?

Also, I NEVER claimed to be open minded. I NEVER claimed to be open minded, as I want to be. And, WHY should I ought to consider that I am wrong about some thing that I have NEVER even said.

What do you think that have I said about complexity that is WRONG?

I KNOW you know all models are wrong. I also KNOW that is what you BELIEVE is true. I KNOW this because this is the human being already constructed knowledge that you are being led by AND want to follow. You are doing the thing that human beings are taught to do. That is; learn to look up and follow others, all being lead to your own demise because of your own stupidity.

OK, so you think I am blindly following orders and I am being led to the slaughter house?

YES. Do you assume, think, or believe that you are any different than any other human being?

Then you will correct my error in reasoning then, won't you?

I have been trying to BUT you keep MISSING THE MARK. That is; you keep missing the POINT i keep making.

You respond to what you THINK my point was, instead of to what the ACTUAL point was.

Adult human beings can be to smart for their own good. You will continue being lead and going wherever you are lead to even if it is to your own death just because of the MANTRA of others that you BELIEVE in. All adult human beings are as bad as each other. No matter if you are of scientific ilk or religious ilk you ALL behave the exact same sheep-like way.

OK. Then correct my behavior? Point out an error in my reasoning.

When you have or hold a BELIEF you are NOT OPEN to it being wrong or partly wrong.

As we have already agreed - neither of us wants us to be wrong. Both of us want to be less wrong. Help me be less wrong!

But I have NEVER agreed to that at all.

I do NOT care one iota if I am WRONG or not. I have already stated I want others to SHOW me where I am WRONG, and, more importantly WHY I am WRONG. I also made it clear I thrive on being told and shown this.

I WANT to correct ALL the multitude of WRONG things I express. But I can NOT correct them if I do NOT know that they are there.

As I say, looking from and through BELIEFS will you NEVER arrive at nor see new information.

You can't see my beliefs.

But I can see your BELIEFS. They are VERY obvious. For example, one BELIEF you have IS "I can not see your beliefs". You wholeheartedly BELIEVE that to be true. I do NOT care that that is your BELIEF. But it is extremely easy to see it. The very words in this thread is the actual evidence I NEED to prove I can see your beliefs.

You haven't mastered the scientific method yet.

WHAT scientific method? Do I NEED a scientific method to be able to read words? Your BELIEFS are written down here in words. I can observe and SEE them just when I read, without any scientific method that I am aware of anyway.

So, every thing you say through the models you make ARE WRONG.

You continue to CRITICIZE ME, without offering a better way. I am still waiting for counter-evidence.

Unlike you, human beings, I am NOT criticizing you or any one. For example, if i say some one is doing some thing stupid, that is NOT a criticism, that is just me meaning they are NOT doing some thing intelligently.

I was just re-repeating what you BELIEVE is true, that is; ALL models are WRONG. If that IS TRUE, then ALL the models you make MUST ALSO BE WRONG, correct?

I think I was going to put a question mark, by the way, at the end of that last quote of mine here.

What for?

What would be the purpose?

Being, collectively, less wrong? Teaching ME benefits YOU. Less stupid people in the world to worry about!

Great goal and outcome to work together towards. But last time I tried doing it with you. You tried ridiculing me and telling me I was WRONG and that my way was the WRONG and impossible way. So, again, what is the purpose. If you BELIEVE you already KNOW, then there is NO use discussing more, nor anew.

Why?

What for?

Teaching ME benefits YOU. Less stupid people in the world to worry about!

NO person is to "worry" about. In fact the people doing the stupidest things can teach US, ALL, some of the greatest lessons in Life. Well, some of the greatest lessons I learned and greatest insights I gained came from the most stupidest things that i have done, which by the way are just about some of the most stupidest things that any person could do.

You really can NOT look out and see past, through, nor outside of this BELIEF of yours, can you?

You haven't taught me how to see the world in a better way than the way I see it now. This is the only way I know how. Show me a better way.

Just STOP assuming and believing (in) things. Just try that, for a day or two, or a few hours or so, or even just for a few minutes or so when looking at any thing, and just see what happens?

Also, and by the way, I HAVE ALREADY taught you HOW to see the world in a better way than the way you see it now. Do you remember I said; If you truly Honest, Open, and Willing, to change, for the better, then that is HOW you will begin to see the not just the world but also the Universe in a much better way than you see it now.

That way is an Truly Open Way. That way allows you to SEE (understand) without any hindrance from those previously gained thoughts that may or may not be right or wrong.

The downward spiral I was talking about is the one of your own demise! You say you will not define words you ask to to provide a fact for, YET you now BELIEVE that you can and will define a term I use. Once again misunderstanding, misinterpretation and taking out of context the actual words that I use and what I have said.

And yet you can't prove my BELIEFS wrong? What's going on here?

But I do NOT want to prove your BELIEFS wrong. I seriously do NOT care if your BELIEFS are right or wrong or any thing else.

I am here to learn how to communicate better. NOT to prove any thing right or wrong.

[TimeSeeker]

What do you mean by 'ad hominem' here?

You are claiming that I am "unable to see" anything outside of my own "belief". When it seems to me that I am seeing quite a lot more than you are seeing. So you are attacking my skills of observation without any actual justification or evidence

Just show me something I am missing! ANYTHING!

Which BELIEF do you want me to provide some thing contrary to?

You pick the BELIEF that you have, and I will tell you if I can provide what you are looking for or not.

Whichever one you think is wrong. Point out something you perceive to be an error in reasoning.

By the way, you have missed the WHOLE point, once again.

Or you failed to communicate it effectively?

You missed the WHOLE POINT, again.

You failed to elucidate it again.

Well no one nor no thing can prove you wrong. That is; because you KNOW, for sure 100% that you are RIGHT, and, because you BELIEVE you are RIGHT.

Stop putting words in my mouth!I have told you. Like 3rd time already. It is IMPOSSIBLE to be 100% RIGHT. Hear me? IMPOSSIBLE. It defies the laws of physics!

Now hear me carefully: I have claimed that I am STRIVING TO BE LESS WRONG. Less wrong than....? I don't know? 90%? 95%? 99%? 99.999999%? of the population.

Which means that I am either 0.000001%, or 1% or 5% or 10% wrong.

Either way - I know that I am wrong, I DON'T KNOW HOW and WHY I am wrong and therefore I cannot self-correct until my error is shown to me.
Either by reality or by another person. You perhaps?

And so if YOU can't point out where I am wrong, but I can point out where YOU are wrong that is sufficient evidence to say that I am LESS WRONG THAN YOU!

And that is good enough.

So far I have not been able to uncover any thing that is able to penetrate a BELIEF.

Have you tried counter-evidence? This is the falsifiability criterion in science: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability

I NEVER said it was, would be, nor will be.

So my beliefs are either true or false, but we don't know which. Cool

You have just ASSUMED that is what i have been saying. Thus THEE REASON WHY you are continually missing my WHOLE POINT.

As you have done too. Which is why you continue insisting that I am "RIGHT" when I am telling you that I am not.

Well, I do NOT care one iota who nor what you THINK you are.

What 'you' actually are IS completely different from what you THINK you are, at the moment.

What the phrase "I am a computer science" actually means to most people is that I have EXPERIENCE in computer science. I have EXPERIENCE in mathematics. I have EXPERIENCE in physics.

I have no idea what I am. Physics, mathematics and computer science is what I DO.

So you BELIEVE.

I don't know. That's not a complete sentence. Suppose that I didn't. What DIFFERENCE would you observe in my behavior?

How much do I have to actually learn before I start recognizing complexity in life.

Took me 25 years. If you are smarter it may take you less.

I have already spent most of my life seeing, and recognizing complex things, But now I can NOT see complexity any where. Every where I look now I see simplicity. WHY would I want to go backwards?

Then maybe you are smarter than the rest of the world. Share your simple view with us? Teach us a better way.

If I say I do not see complexity, then HOW could that be wrong about complexity?

Well, good observation is the first step to science... so if you do not see yet. You have to keep looking and asking hard questions that make you (even more!) uncomfortable. There's no getting over that part :/ Learning is an emotional rollercoaster of constantly proving yourself wrong!

Also, I NEVER claimed to be open minded. I NEVER claimed to be open minded, as I want to be. And, WHY should I ought to consider that I am wrong about some thing that I have NEVER even said.

Like I said. You can be as open or as close minded as you WANT. Nobody is forcing you to be curious. You are welcome to STOP being curious at any point in time.

What do you think that have I said about complexity that is WRONG?

You disregard it. You do not recognize its existence. Yet?

YES. Do you assume, think, or believe that you are any different than any other human being?

It depends on what your baseline is for "human being". It depends on what you ASSUME is a "human being". Anatomically I am very similar to other humans. And I have some genetic differences.
In terms of thought-patterns - I think no differently to most physicist/mathematician/computer scientist. I think very differently than your average university graduate.

I have been trying to BUT you keep MISSING THE MARK. That is; you keep missing the POINT i keep making.

You respond to what you THINK my point was, instead of to what the ACTUAL point was.

I don't know what your point is. I can't read your mind. That why it's your point - YOU have to make it.

When you have or hold a BELIEF you are NOT OPEN to it being wrong or partly wrong.

OK. I am getting tired of this now. See above.

But I have NEVER agreed to that at all.

OK. I am sorry. I must have been mistaken. So - I want to be less wrong, and you are happy to remain at your current level of wrong?

I WANT to correct ALL the multitude of WRONG things I express. But I can NOT correct them if I do NOT know that they are there.

But just above you said that you didn't agree to being less wrong? Make up your mind.

But I can see your BELIEFS. They are VERY obvious. For example, one BELIEF you have IS "I can not see your beliefs". You wholeheartedly BELIEVE that to be true. I do NOT care that that is your BELIEF. But it is extremely easy to see it. The very words in this thread is the actual evidence I NEED to prove I can see your beliefs.

But you ignored the fact that this is not the word belief means to me? Beliefs are accompanied by actions/consequences.

What you have done is you have applied the law of excluded middle to believe the opposite of what I said. That't not really a valid mode of reasoning in my universe

WHAT scientific method? Do I NEED a scientific method to be able to read words? Your BELIEFS are written down here in words. I can observe and SEE them just when I read, without any scientific method that I am aware of anyway.

No. You need the scientific method to recognise that words mean more than one thing. And then you need the scientific method to interpret which meaning is most likely.

Unlike you, human beings, I am NOT criticizing you or any one. For example, if i say some one is doing some thing stupid, that is NOT a criticism, that is just me meaning they are NOT doing some thing intelligently.

You are accusing me for trying to be RIGHT? That's unjust criticism when I keep telling you it's not true.

I was just re-repeating what you BELIEVE is true, that is; ALL models are WRONG. If that IS TRUE, then ALL the models you make MUST ALSO BE WRONG, correct?

Correct. My models are just less wrong than your models. This article paints a good picture: https://chem.tufts.edu/answersinscience ... fwrong.htm

Great goal and outcome to work together towards. But last time I tried doing it with you. You tried ridiculing me and telling me I was WRONG and that my way was the WRONG and impossible way. So, again, what is the purpose. If you BELIEVE you already KNOW, then there is NO use discussing more, nor anew.

Well, do I not keep pointing out mistakes in your reasoning?

1. You ignore complexity.
2. You fail to consider all possible hypotheses/explanations which is leading you to false positives (e.g you accuse me of RIGHTNESS, rather than of LESS WRONGNESS).

NO person is to "worry" about. In fact the people doing the stupidest things can teach US, ALL, some of the greatest lessons in Life. Well, some of the greatest lessons I learned and greatest insights I gained came from the most stupidest things that i have done, which by the way are just about some of the most stupidest things that any person could do.

Sure. Errors/mistakes are lessons.

Just STOP assuming and believing (in) things. Just try that, for a day or two, or a few hours or so, or even just for a few minutes or so when looking at any thing, and just see what happens?

HOW? I don't know what it means to "STOP BELIEVING THINGS". To STOP BELIEVING is to STOP DOING.

Also, and by the way, I HAVE ALREADY taught you HOW to see the world in a better way than the way you see it now. Do you remember I said; If you truly Honest, Open, and Willing, to change, for the better, then that is HOW you will begin to see the not just the world but also the Universe in a much better way than you see it now.

That is -you ASSUMED I wasn't already open, honest and willing. If you bother to see my previous posts... you will see a pattern where I keep telling people where I think I am wrong. I keep telling people how to convince me that I am wrong...


So I guess, there's another error in reasoning

That way is an Truly Open Way. That way allows you to SEE (understand) without any hindrance from those previously gained thoughts that may or may not be right or wrong.

That's a strawman. I don't think in terms of "right" and "wrong" - this is your mode of thinking. I think in terms of "wrong" and "less wrong".

But I do NOT want to prove your BELIEFS wrong. I seriously do NOT care if your BELIEFS are right or wrong or any thing else.

I am here to learn how to communicate better. NOT to prove any thing right or wrong.

OK. What is it that you want to communicate?

[Age]

Honestly I had not given it much thought prior to this moment. But, still, that does NOT deflect from the fact that the 'absolute perfection' of the Universe, exists RIGHT HERE and NOW. How could that be shown and demonstrated to be false?

Don't forget: you also said that you can improve "absolute perfection". Important little detail

I NEVER said that I can improve 'absolute perfection' at all, nor did I even say to begin with. You just assumed that that is what I am saying

I also said to you BEFORE that I could NOT improve 'absolute perfection', when you accused me of that BEFORE. I explained simply what could be improved upon.

I have NEVER stated that, unless of course you can show us where I have. You keep assuming that is what I am saying in my writings. The reason you keep doing this is because I place subliminal messages within my writings. I do this so that others, like you, will respond in particular ways, of which I can then show and use as evidence for what I am saying about how the Mind and the brain work. Those particular ways that I KNOW human beings will make and respond with are also very predictable, so that is how I KNOW I can gain the proof I need to support, that, what it is that i am explaining to them.

So even if "it couldn't be any other way", then you are necessarily arguing against free will.

I am NOT sure how many times I will have to tell you BUT I am NOT arguing for or against any thing.

I have ALREADY explained to you, that there are NO sides to the free will/determinism discussion. (nor any other of those stupid debates)

I have also ALREADY explained that although I can obviously recognize and see the two sides of that issue that human beings "argue" and "fight" But I do NOT actually see how either side could be fought for, other than to support one's own prejudiced preconceived views or BELIEFS. There is NOT one side IS right and the other side IS wrong in this NOR any of the other one of these "debatable" discussions. There are truths and falsehoods in both sides of ALL of these issues and the Truth is there are parts of both "sides that co-exist equally together for ONE true unambiguous fact that is indisputable. I SEE (understand) this TRUTH. For example, EVERY behavior a human being does comes from a thought. EVERY thought came from a past previous experience. Therefore, EVERY thought, within a human body, is deterministic in what will happen, which has been pre-determined by past events/experiences. However, within human beings there is an OPEN Mind open to absolutely anything. That Mind is NOT influenced by any one nor any thing. That Mind just observes and being completely OPEN means it is completely free to choose absolutely any thing to do. Human beings have this free will. They are completely free to choose whatever they so wish to do. But they can only choose from the previously stored thoughts within the body. A human body can NOT just freely choose to do some thing like build a UFO to take them back in time if the thoughts needed are not yet within them. So, human beings have the free will to choose any thing that they want to do BUT they can only choose from the pre-determined thoughts that have been placed within them from past experiences. Choosing from any one of those thoughts, then determines what that human body will actually do. Thus determining what will happen in the future. Therefore, human beings have free will AND are determined, EQUALLY.

Of course THIS IS WRONG, and will NOT be agreed with. But that is the beauty and absolute perfection of it. When those WRONGS are pointed out and WHY they are WRONGS, then this will be IMPROVED UPON, which is then moving things faster in the RIGHT direction.

This, like ALL things, needs to be looked at from the truly OPEN Mind, and only then using past experienced already gathered thoughts/views to determine what parts are actually wrong and what parts are actually partly right and/or right. Instead of being looked at from those already gathered thoughts/views firstly.

[TimeSeeker]

I NEVER said that I can improve 'absolute perfection' at all, nor did I even say to begin with. You just assumed that that is what I am saying

I also said to you BEFORE that I could NOT improve 'absolute perfection', when you accused me of that BEFORE. I explained simply what could be improved upon.

OK, so you said that SOME PARTS of "absolute perfection" can be improved upon? Humans, society. So SOME PARTS of "absolute perfection" are not perfect?

Saying that "SOME PARTS of absolute perfection are not perfect" is the same as saying "ABSOLUTE PERFECTION IS NOT PERFECT".

A paradox, you see!

I have NEVER stated that, unless of course you can show us where I have. You keep assuming that is what I am saying in my writings.

RIGHT ABOVE!

The reason you keep doing this is because I place subliminal messages within my writings.

Well FUCK! THERE is the problem! I am NOT a mindreader. I can't read "subliminal messages"!!! I can only read what you INTENTIONALLY WRITE. in WORDS.

If you believe in "subliminal messaging" - you need to think about it The best you can do is NLP - but that doesn't work over the internet.

I do this so that others, like you, will respond in particular ways, of which I can then show and use as evidence for what I am saying about how the Mind and the brain work. Those particular ways that I KNOW human beings will make and respond with are also very predictable, so that is how I KNOW I can gain the proof I need to support, that, what it is that i am explaining to them.

Yeah. You keep saying that your hind-sight bias is some kind of a magical skill. Maybe it works like your "subliminal messaging"

I am NOT sure how many times I will have to tell you BUT I am NOT arguing for or against any thing.

I have ALREADY explained to you, that there are NO sides to the free will/determinism discussion. (nor any other of those stupid debates)

Of course THIS IS WRONG, and will NOT be agreed with. But that is the beauty and absolute perfection of it. When those WRONGS are pointed out and WHY they are WRONGS, then this will be IMPROVED UPON, which is then moving things faster in the RIGHT direction.

Yes, yes. This "beauty and absolute perfection" that you want to improve. I heard you.

This, like ALL things, needs to be looked at from the truly OPEN Mind, and only then using past experienced already gathered thoughts/views to determine what parts are actually wrong and what parts are actually partly right and/or right. Instead of being looked at from those already gathered thoughts/views firstly.

Well. Can we start with all those contradictions in your view? Those are definitely wrong. But this is totally feedback you can disregard.

I don't care what you believe e.g I don't care what goes on in your head.
You shouldn't care what I believe either e.g you shouldn't care about what goes on in my head.

I do care about WHAT you DO with your beliefs, but only if it impacts me in a negative way.
I also care if you say that you want to learn - so I will point out logical errors as I spot them.

And so for somebody who is "trying to learn to communicate" you spend an awful lot of time speaking about what goes on in other people's heads.

Metaphysics and God are VERY complex topics - so complex, and you don't yet recognize complexity! Choose something simpler to talk about otherwise we are unlikely to agree

[Age]

I NEVER said that I can improve 'absolute perfection' at all, nor did I even say to begin with. You just assumed that that is what I am saying

I also said to you BEFORE that I could NOT improve 'absolute perfection', when you accused me of that BEFORE. I explained simply what could be improved upon.

OK, so you said that SOME PARTS of "absolute perfection" can be improved upon? Humans, society. So SOME PARTS of "absolute perfection" are not perfect?

Do we really have to go through ALL of this, all AGAIN?

I already explained WHAT, HOW, and WHY SOME PARTS are in A SENSE not perfect. Not that you could probably recall, but do you have the onset of alzhiemers?

We went through ALL of this previously.

Saying that "SOME PARTS of absolute perfection are not perfect" is the same as saying "ABSOLUTE PERFECTION IS NOT PERFECT".

YES I am fully aware. We went through all of this previously, also. I have already explained the imperfect parts of the absolute perfection. I am NOT doing it again. If you want to find fault in MY explanation, then re-read it, and then do so. Finding fault in what you THINK is an unsound or invalid conclusion WITHOUT the explanation of how the conclusion came about is NOT going to help any one here. Except helping YOU by THINKING that you are supporting your OWN already "justified" BELIEFS.

A paradox, you see!

Yes I am also fully aware of this as well. In fact, it was I who was the ONE who wrote that just about everything I write is a 'paradox'. I write things paradoxically here in this forum purposely to bring out the responses that you, human beings, give and provide me.

Are you aware that a 'paradox' can also mean 'a statement or proposition seemingly absurd and/or contradictory BUT expressing an actual TRUTH'?

I have NEVER stated that, unless of course you can show us where I have. You keep assuming that is what I am saying in my writings.

RIGHT ABOVE!

WHERE?

Just saying RIGHT ABOVE is NOT proof of any thing.

Takes us back! That is; if you can?

The reason you keep doing this is because I place subliminal messages within my writings.

Well FUCK! THERE is the problem! I am NOT a mindreader. I can't read "subliminal messages"!!! I can only read what you INTENTIONALLY WRITE. in WORDS.

The ACTUAL WORDS are there for you, and the others, to SEE. I wish you would use just them, but you do not. You USE the words that you HOPE to see. You SEE a message that you WANT to see.

The subliminal messages are NOT produced for you. They are for the future readers who WILL then fully understand what I am doing here, in this forum. The actual words that I use are for you to see and use, written in a way that leaves you seeing things that are not really there. Because YOUR BELIEFS are so obvious, this is rather a relatively very simple and easy thing to do. You used a word the other day that just about sums up what I actually doing with you - equivocate.

If you believe in "subliminal messaging" - you need to think about it The best you can do is NLP - but that doesn't work over the internet.

Without telling all of us what NLP stands for or means, then HOW many do you really think will KNOW what you are talking about here?

Without first clarifying from you What does NLP mean or stand for? I will have NO idea what you are talking about here.

By the way, have you previously seen and notice me use the term; I do not believe any thing?

If so, then why write what you did just now?

If you have not seen me use that term before, then hopefully you have now.

I do this so that others, like you, will respond in particular ways, of which I can then show and use as evidence for what I am saying about how the Mind and the brain work. Those particular ways that I KNOW human beings will make and respond with are also very predictable, so that is how I KNOW I can gain the proof I need to support, that, what it is that i am explaining to them.

Yeah. You keep saying that your hind-sight bias is some kind of a magical skill. Maybe it works like your "subliminal messaging"

Maybe, maybe not. We will have to wait and see.

Of course THIS IS WRONG, and will NOT be agreed with. But that is the beauty and absolute perfection of it. When those WRONGS are pointed out and WHY they are WRONGS, then this will be IMPROVED UPON, which is then moving things faster in the RIGHT direction.

Yes, yes. This "beauty and absolute perfection" that you want to improve. I heard you.

You heard, but you can NOT understand nor comprehend, yet, am I RIGHT?

This, like ALL things, needs to be looked at from the truly OPEN Mind, and only then using past experienced already gathered thoughts/views to determine what parts are actually wrong and what parts are actually partly right and/or right. Instead of being looked at from those already gathered thoughts/views firstly.

Well. Can we start with all those contradictions in your view? Those are definitely wrong. But this is totally feedback you can disregard.

You yourself appear extremely frustrated when others tell you that you are wrong but do NOT include the actual part that is wrong nor explain why it is wrong. YET, here you are continually doing the EXACT SAME THING.

I don't care what you believe e.g I don't care what goes on in your head.

NO matter how many times I tell you; I DO NOT BELIEVE ANY THING. You will continue to say the exact, like you have once again here.

See, my friends, this is how the brain, through BELIEFS, reacts to the truth. No matter what truth is laid in front of a person with BELIEFS, the belief-system will NOT allow the actual person to see the TRUTH. They will just keep seeing, thinking, saying, and writing THAT what they BELIEVE is the truth.

You shouldn't care what I believe either e.g you shouldn't care about what goes on in my head.

When you express your BELIEFS as though they are ABSOLUTELY true, right, and correct. ONLY then that is when i say some thing.

I do care about WHAT you DO with your beliefs, but only if it impacts me in a negative way.
I also care if you say that you want to learn - so I will point out logical errors as I spot them.

Well POINT THEM OUT. Do NOT just say "they exist".

And so for somebody who is "trying to learn to communicate" you spend an awful lot of time speaking about what goes on in other people's heads.

Exactly. To provoke a reaction. That I KNOW will happen.

Metaphysics and God are VERY complex topics - so complex, and you don't yet recognize complexity! Choose something simpler to talk about otherwise we are unlikely to agree

Metaphysics and God are SO FAR easier and simpler to UNDERSTAND than trying to understand every minute detail of the physical world. I have already explained that there is NOTHING complex at all about the Universe, nor in how It works. There is NOTHING complex nor hard in Life. Only human beings make things appear complex and hard. They do this through their own confusion of things.

[Veritas Aequitas]

Definitions explained in unambiguous indisputable facts do NOT need proof. They speak for themselves.

There is no such thing as "unambiguous" when it comes to English. Go ahead and try it!

You have mistaken the quote. That was not written by me. It is Age's point.
You are more Observant?

[Veritas Aequitas]

The following argument prove the idea of God is a non-starter and moot.

• P1. Absolute perfection is an impossibility to be real
  P2. God, imperatively must be absolutely perfect
  C. Therefore God is an impossibility to be real.

It is like trying to prove a square-circle exists.
This hypothesis is an impossibility due to the thing being contradictory.

P1. WHO says 'absolute perfection' is an impossibility to be real? WHY is it said to be an impossibility to be real? WHAT evidence is there for this?
P2. Accepted and agreed.
C. That is only if P1 is an unambiguous fact that can NOT be disputed, which can very easily be disputed.

Re P1

I have explained in the OP and further in other posts.

2. Absolute perfection
Absolute perfection is an idea, ideal, and it is only a thought that can arise from pure reason and never the empirical at all.
Absolute perfection, [an ideal] is an impossibility in the empirical, thus exist only theoretically.
Examples are perfect circle, square, triangle, etc.

To chase for absolute perfection in reality would end up with a spiraling infinite regression.

I also wrote in the OP;

1. Relative perfection
If one's answers in an objective tests are ALL correct that is a 100% perfect score.
Perfect scores 10/10 or 7/7 used to be given to extra-ordinary performance in diving, gymnastics, skating, and the likes. So perfection from the relative perspective can happen and exist within man-made systems of empirically-based measurements.

Absolute perfection is only possible in one's head as an idea [not concept]. If this absolute perfection is attributed to a God, that is a reification of an illusion driven by desperate psychological forces in the person's brain/mind.