The Scapegoat

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Nick_A
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Re: The Scapegoat

Post by Nick_A »

Dubious
Almost all of his ideas oppose yours; his frames of reference has zero in common. If he thought anywhere near like you he’d be a sick moron and not the very insightful person he was. He talked about both sides of the equation being both reasonable and necessary, not just highlighting the virtues of one while condemning every attribute the other may possess. He never crusaded against secularism as a whole, which would have been stupid, only against some undesirable aspects of it, which certainly exist and did the same for theism.
I think the Greta mind has finally gotten to you. You are so engrossed in complaining and condemning that you’ve become closed to the obvious.

I’m the Platonist here which you reject and Emerson was very influenced by Plato. He is the insightful person and I’m the sick moron. It never dawns on you how controlled you are by emotional preconceptions.

Get this idea of good and bad out of your head. Lacking consciousness our species is incapable of anything objectively bad but instead responds to societal conditioning as to good and bad.

Secularism isn’t bad; it is incomplete. It is structured on imagination which keeps us ignorant that the earth is part of the living universe like a dime is part of a dollar. Consider Emerson in relation to Plato. Have I ever opposed this common sense?

https://satyagraha.wordpress.com/2013/0 ... platonist/

We can identify at least three distinct themes of Platonism reflected in Emerson and other American Transcendentalists:

1. A view of man. The essence of the Platonist view of man is that we, as human beings, have a two-fold nature. We are, of course, material creatures, living in a temporal, material world. But at the same time we have an eternal nature, which exists outside of time. We must, first of all, reject the modern materialistic view that sees man only as a collection of atoms, a machine. But we must not reject our material nature altogether or try live as world-denying ascetics. What we seek is to live an integrated life. having, so to speak, a foot on both realms – material and eternal, earth and heaven. We are as a Sacred Tree, a Cosmic Priest, uniting heaven and earth.

2. A view of Nature. The material world as it appears is, in a sense, a reflection of deeper spiritual realities, eternal Forms in a Platonic Ideal realm. Nature has spiritual meaning. Nature is constantly teaching us spiritual things.

3. Self-cultivation. From Platonism, Transcendentalism derives its emphasis on the individual responsibility for self-cultivation, especially cultivation of ones moral and intellectual life. Distinctly Platonic is the emphasis on building the strength of the intellect in the service of spiritual growth. Well is the story told that engraved on the door of Plato’s Academy a sign read, “Let no one ignorant of geometry enter here.”

Emerson and Transcendentalism offer a great deal in themselves for modern readers. But Transcendentalist writings may also serve to increase interest in Platonism, the Western Tradition, and the perennial philosophy. If more people read Plato today we would have fewer arguments about religion. Plato is a common element of Christianity and paganism, orthodoxy and esotericism. He unites East with West. He harmonizes moralism and naturalism.
It is you who are so caught up in self justification and complaining that you have become closed to the obvious. Live a little; open that mind of yours.
The whole person resembles more of a synthesis between inner & outer since both palpably exist with different inherent values which strive for reconciliation. "Knowing oneself" - one of your perennial favorite phrases by which you seek to glean credibility by simply mentioning it - requires that ALL sides of the human psyche be acknowledged. This includes the sides that don't do us any favors. This is a principal, not simply an idea, thoroughly opaque to a mentality like yours though most people would instinctively understand it.
So why deny it? If you understood this you would understand Christianity and Plato. But you continue to support denial. Reconciliation enables a person’s personality to reflect the quality of the unified inner man we have as a potential.
Matthew 16:23 New International Version (NIV)
23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”
Jesus doesn’t tell Peter to go to hell he just says “get behind me Satan.” Of course the world is necessary but that doesn’t mean it should be dominant over the developing inner man.
“Give me beauty in the inward soul; may the outward and the inward man be at one.”Socrates

Matthew 6
28 And why are ye anxious concerning raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 29 yet I say unto you, that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
Clearly Emerson was aware of what the blind deniers oppose. Why be a blind denier? Isn’t there anything more psychologically motivating for you than blind condemnation and pointing fingers?

To know thyself means to have the experience of totality of yourself. Of course it isn’t wanted. It denies the impulse for self justification dominant in the secular world. Can a person willfully dominated by expressions of negative emotion ever become capable of impartial self knowledge?

It is easy to justify being self absorbed when captivated by secularism and its one world earthly view. However it is far easier for a universalist to experience their insignificance when they begin to feel the potential for human being within a universal structure. Humility necessary for making efforts to become human become natural.
Dubious
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Re: The Scapegoat

Post by Dubious »

Nick_A wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:19 amI think the Greta mind has finally gotten to you.
The Greta mind is another one of your obsessions. She has her views; I have mine and sometimes they're the same; nothing more complicated.

Sometimes one responds to a farce for the fun of it but farce is only a farce if it doesn't last too long; its natural conclusion for me is to avoid it before it gets seriously boring.

...message being >>> Over & Out.

Btw, secularism is ALWAYS incomplete because its adaptive unlike your hideous version of wisdom which is a done deal the head of a snake biting its tail.
Last edited by Dubious on Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Greta
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Re: Nick is Hungry for the Apocalypse

Post by Greta »

Dubious wrote: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:45 pm
Greta wrote: Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:45 pm It is one thing to accept that the Earth changes and we are the catalysts for a dangerous extinction event that will claim a lot of humans as well, it's a whole other thing to support policies that accelerate the damage, which is not only immoral but not strategic; changes we make now can have a significant impact in the future.
That's for sure. The worst by far is what we witness now may only be an introduction and possibly preempt any need for wisdom in the future...or maybe we'll get more of what we missed during the trauma when it's too late and no-longer useful. We may in time rectify the worst of errors we commit among ourselves but do it to the infrastructure which supports existence and we're in a different ball-game not unlike its Mayan version where the losers get roasted.

That nature doesn't retreat only attacks is no-longer a theory. It seems the President and all his idiot followers haven't yet reached that conclusion. The current hubris in the White House goes beyond Roman.
Actually, it's very Roman. Comrade Trump evolves into Emperor Trump.

Nature is not only retreating now, it's shrivelling.
Dubious wrote: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:45 pm
Greta wrote:It is because, like many evangelists, Nick is looking forward to the Apocalypse, to scour the Earth clean of feminists, abortionists, mercy killers, queers, druggies and snowflakes which will then usher in God's rule, as prophesied in Revelations.
I agree, it doesn't make sense! Why get rid of the fauna we still have left!
Collateral damage, I expect. If morality comes in waves, it's currently on a downswing.

I think the "Greta mind" needs a break from the lunacy too.
Last edited by Greta on Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Nick_A
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Re: The Scapegoat

Post by Nick_A »

So Dubious prefers to hide under the bed and Greta prefers to reveal her obsession with Trump. Is it any wonder why finger pointing and creating scapegoats is such a natural reaction when reason and humility are abandoned in favor of self justification?
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Greta
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Just admit that you look forward to the Apocalyse, Nick

Post by Greta »

Tell us why you favour Trump again, even though he is rapidly accelerating damage to the natural environment?
Nick_A
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Re: Just admit that you look forward to the Apocalyse, Nick

Post by Nick_A »

Greta wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:15 am Tell us why you favour Trump again, even though he is rapidly accelerating damage to the natural environment?
Tell us why you re incapable of admitting that you are the wretched man and as a result only capable of creating scapegoats in order to hide your own weaknesses.
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Greta
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Re: Just admit that you look forward to the Apocalyse, Nick

Post by Greta »

Nick_A wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:20 am
Greta wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:15 am Tell us why you favour Trump again, even though he is rapidly accelerating damage to the natural environment?
Tell us why you re incapable of admitting that you are the wretched man and as a result only capable of creating scapegoats in order to hide your own weaknesses.
Tell us why you still won't answer the question even though I asked first and many times?

Do you realise how transparent your squirming is? Does that matter to you? Do you have any shame or ethics?
Nick_A
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Re: Just admit that you look forward to the Apocalyse, Nick

Post by Nick_A »

Greta wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:26 am
Nick_A wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:20 am
Greta wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:15 am Tell us why you favour Trump again, even though he is rapidly accelerating damage to the natural environment?
Tell us why you re incapable of admitting that you are the wretched man and as a result only capable of creating scapegoats in order to hide your own weaknesses.
Tell us why you still won't answer the question even though I asked first and many times?

Do you realise how transparent your squirming is? Does that matter to you? Do you have any shame or ethics?
I just refuse to cheapen the thread into arguments over foolish talking points. The secular progressive technique is always to cheapen contemplation of the big picture into arguing details. How is someone like you completely oblivious of what it means to value a human life cycle possibly appreciate what conservation means? If you don't understand the big picture, how can you possibly place details into a reasonable perspective? Try becoming obsessive over Kim Kardashian. You may make more sense.
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Greta
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Re: Just admit that you look forward to the Apocalyse, Nick

Post by Greta »

Nick_A wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:40 am
Greta wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:26 am
Nick_A wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:20 am

Tell us why you re incapable of admitting that you are the wretched man and as a result only capable of creating scapegoats in order to hide your own weaknesses.
Tell us why you still won't answer the question even though I asked first and many times?

Do you realise how transparent your squirming is? Does that matter to you? Do you have any shame or ethics?
I just refuse to cheapen the thread into arguments over foolish talking points.
:lol: you are so incredibly slippery and dishonest.

I won't waste any more time on you.
Dalek Prime
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Re: The Scapegoat

Post by Dalek Prime »

And what is the big picture, Nick? (God, I know I'm going to regret asking. I mostly do. I must really be bored, or have a spare moment to type something.)
Nick_A
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Re: The Scapegoat

Post by Nick_A »

Dalek Prime wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:07 am And what is the big picture, Nick? (God, I know I'm going to regret asking. I mostly do. I must really be bored, or have a spare moment to type something.)
If you are this bored you won't be able to keep your mind open and just drift into the shallows. You're better off just getting a good nights sleep and forgetting about philosophy
Dubious
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Re: The Scapegoat

Post by Dubious »

Nick_A wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:02 am So Dubious prefers to hide under the bed and Greta prefers to reveal her obsession with Trump. Is it any wonder why finger pointing and creating scapegoats is such a natural reaction when reason and humility are abandoned in favor of self justification?
What's under the bed is more interesting than any interminable conversation with neurotics and psychotics; if you think that's where I prefer to hide from a greasy mole like you then by all means, feel comforted by that thought! If reading good books perchance increases IQ then long conversations with you is likely to decrease it. Under the bed with a good book is definitely a safer option
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Greta
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Re: The Scapegoat

Post by Greta »

Dalek Prime wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:07 am And what is the big picture, Nick? (God, I know I'm going to regret asking. I mostly do. I must really be bored, or have a spare moment to type something.)
The big picture is this - he believes that the Earth is reforming as it always has done and there is nothing we can do about it, and any effort to alleviate the change is pointless fiddling around the edges. Remember, what matters to him is the prophesy of Revelations, where The Apocalypse shall scour the Earth of evildoers (like us) and thus shall begin God's rule over the remnant righteous.

However, since evangelicals like Nick don't care about environmental preservation or overpopulation, their vision can only be for ever more humans to be packed atop each other in ever higher buildings in ever smaller rooms. That way the new abortion-free Earth can accumulate ever more human souls, kept alive with laboratory produced foods.

How many billions of human souls can God's new world cram in without the aid of ecosystems? That would look more like hell than heaven to me.
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Greta
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Why conservative Christians don’t believe in climate change

Post by Greta »

More clarity in understanding Nick's position which, as noted earlier, is in lockstep with his political allies:

Why conservative Christians don’t believe in climate change
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10. ... 0215599789
American Christians have become increasingly polarized on issues of climate change and environmental regulation. In recent years, mainline Protestant denominations and the Roman Catholic Church have made explicit declarations of support for global climate action. Prominent Southern Baptists and other evangelical Protestants, on the other hand, have issued statements that are strikingly similar to the talking points of secular climate skeptics, and have attempted to stamp out "green" efforts within their own ranks.

An analysis of resolutions and campaigns by evangelicals over the past 40 years shows that anti-environmentalism within conservative Christianity stems from fears that "stewardship" of God's creation is drifting toward neo-pagan nature worship, and from apocalyptic beliefs about "end times" that make it pointless to worry about global warming. As the climate crisis deepens, the moral authority of Christian leaders and organizations may play a decisive role in swaying public policy toward (or away from) action to mitigate global warming.
The study concludes:
Nonetheless, things can change. The climate will certainly change; the science tells us that. As conditions worsen, masses of people, suddenly deeply frightened, are going to be looking for answers and leadership. Climate change is, today, already increasingly being framed as a moral issue, and organized religion still has great moral authority.

Consider the role Southern Black churches played in the civil rights movement: providing community, movement
infrastructure, resources, and leadership. In an analogous fashion, as the climate crisis deepens, faith communities, especially the liberal Christian denominations, could become a much-needed moral voice in national climate politics.

Among evangelicals, however, it is distinctly possible that an unfolding climate apocalypse here on Earth may trigger an ever-deepening retreat into fervent hope for supernatural rescue from an increasingly unliveable planet.
Dubious
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Re: The Scapegoat

Post by Dubious »

The statement...
"As the climate crisis deepens, the moral authority of Christian leaders and organizations may play a decisive role in swaying public policy toward (or away from) action to mitigate global warming.
...sounds both sinister and absurd. Why would the "moral authority" of Christian leaders be allowed any input in something so decisive for humanity as climate change. Why would the moral authority of any religious organization, no matter how powerful, even be allowed a verdict based on "their" policies instead of the science which describes the process and consequences?

Such interference if endorsed is tantamount to suicide by moral authority. Can anything be more laughable or are humans truly the clowns of the galaxy!
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