The Scapegoat

[Dubious]

Wisdom is an ongoing project not a finished product. It's compass moves as the mind moves.

No. wisdom always was. It is a finished product that an be remembered by a person with the humility to be a conscious ongoing project.

Really! So how did it get manufactured if it always was since we weren't always around; who or what would it have applied to? It sounds silly to call the universe wise or even existence itself; it just IS.

Wisdom is learned, not given as if it were some edition of sacred text that one could memorize and recall. Only the most extreme fundamentalists believe otherwise. You really are an absolutist and pharisaic hypocrite, the kind Jesus loathed, to even mention a person with the humility to be a conscious ongoing project, since you imperiously negate what others may have gleaned by way of experience which is the essential source and constructer of wisdom.

There is no fucking manual for it; there is only a continual striving in the hope of surmounting our errors. Virtually every age and civilization had its own version of it. At no point was it ever complete nor will it be completed in the future since at no time will we experience all there is to know. The best we can hope for regarding wisdom is refinement.

Being the fundamentalist you are you acknowledge nothing and no one except your own sanctimonious moralizing, mendaciously avoiding arguments you can't counter such as those neatly presented by Greta against Trump. If this is your version of wisdom which reeks of cowardice, I'd rather be a Morlock.

BTW Trump is the very epitome of secularism at its worst!

[Nick_A]

Dubious

A typical secularist. You believe you are the center of the universe and everything revolves around you. So it is natural for you to write

Really! So how did it get manufactured if it always was since we weren't always around; who or what would it have applied to? It sounds silly to call the universe wise or even existence itself; it just IS.

You are completely unaware of your insignificance in relation to objective human meaning and purpose so the idea of Sophia and her implications is absurd for you. You prefer to carry your pitchfork and lighted torch as you attack anything suggesting depth. Even the leftist Huffington Post could be open to Sophia but not Dubious who has become devoted to blind attack in defense of the supremacy of the Great Beast.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/ ... 89360.html

French philosopher René Descartes wrote in the preface for his Principles of Philosophy:
“It is really only God alone who has Perfect Wisdom, that is to say, who has a complete knowledge of the truth of all things; but it may be said that men have more wisdom or less according as they have more or less knowledge of the most important truths.”

Human beings become wise, Descartes suggested, as they begin to approach the truths known only by God. But in Christian mysticism, there is another figure who lays out a path to wisdom.
Her name is Sophia.
“Sophia” in ancient Greek translates to “wisdom,” and from this we derive the words “philosophy” and “sophisticated.” The Hebrew the word for wisdom, חָכְמָה or chokmah, is also a feminine noun.
Religion scholar and author of The Gnostic Gospels Elaine Pagels spoke with HuffPost about Sophia and the significance of a personified wisdom. “In the Book of Proverbs, wisdom as a feminine being,” Pagels said. “She is God’s partner, or darling, his delight. The idea is that wisdom is a personified feminine being who is with God and helps him out.”…………………

Some are open to pondering what is meant and what wisdom actually is and some like you and Greta are only capable of complaining and attacking. Those open to impartial pondering must prevent themselves from being brought down by this attacking complaining mindset and strive for an open mind. If they don’t they can just become another blind attacker and complainer only concerned with self justification and subject to obsessions as Greta is with Donald Trump; her ultimate scapegoat.

[Dubious]

Some are open to pondering what is meant and what wisdom actually is and some like you and Greta are only capable of complaining and attacking.

You make yourself vulnerable by being the loathsome false prophet you truly are, a thoroughly disgusting deceiver in every way who knows nothing of what he preaches. Nevertheless, as the saying goes, you are entitled to your OWN opinions just not to your OWN facts.

But to keep your enlightenment simplified and immune to counter intelligence, all of your opinions are expressed as facts while everyone else's facts are mere opinions. Your foreshortened path to wisdom consists only of you being right - the "enlightened guru" in the group - while everyone who opposes or questions is simply "not receptive", the perennial bottom line in all of your false argumentations.

Among the rest of your miserable failures is that you can't tell the difference between the two and avoid any questions which make those differences palpable; instead, not knowing how else to respond, you belittle them like any snake oil charmer because that's the best you can do. Lies and intentional ignorance are the mortals enemies of both wisdom and enlightenment; unfortunately for anyone who communicates with you, you've proven yourself to be on the negative side of the latter.

You are about as closed and small-minded as people get; a perfect example of false reasoning and of how not to think; or put another way....just because the snot up one's nose lies in close proximity to the brain doesn't mean the two are interchangeable...though, in your case, I wouldn't know which is the better option.

[Nick_A]

Some are open to pondering what is meant and what wisdom actually is and some like you and Greta are only capable of complaining and attacking.

You make yourself vulnerable by being the loathsome false prophet you truly are, a thoroughly disgusting deceiver in every way who knows nothing of what he preaches. Nevertheless, as the saying goes, you are entitled to your OWN opinions just not to your OWN facts.

But to keep your enlightenment simplified and immune to counter intelligence, all of your opinions are expressed as facts while everyone else's facts are mere opinions. Your foreshortened path to wisdom consists only of you being right - the "enlightened guru" in the group - while everyone who opposes or questions is simply "not receptive", the perennial bottom line in all of your false argumentations.

Among the rest of your miserable failures is that you can't tell the difference between the two and avoid any questions which make those differences palpable; instead, not knowing how else to respond, you belittle them like any snake oil charmer because that's the best you can do. Lies and intentional ignorance are the mortals enemies of both wisdom and enlightenment; unfortunately for anyone who communicates with you, you've proven yourself to be on the negative side of the latter.

You are about as closed and small-minded as people get; a perfect example of false reasoning and of how not to think; or put another way....just because the snot up one's nose lies in close proximity to the brain doesn't mean the two are interchangeable...though, in your case, I wouldn't know which is the better option.

All what you call my "facts" are centered around the premise that we exist and live our lives as if in a cave described by Plato. This includes me so I am the wretched man. Anyone can verify the human condition for themselves if they have the need and courage to do so. The idea is offensive to you which is why these famous wisdom quotes are rejected since they invite doubt as to what we are and believe. You are in the majority whose actions prove they hate them. So much hatred indicates there is something of value which is being suppressed. If I keep introducing ideas of value I expect them to be hated by those who find human meaning and purpose in secularism and have not yet begun to doubt.

"A wise man, recognizing that the world is but an illusion, does not act as if it is real, so he escapes the suffering". ~ Buddha

"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." ~ Socrates

"The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is a knowledge of our own ignorance." ~ Benjamin Franklin

"Wisdom comes by disillusionment." ~ George Santayana

As of now all you do is complain and condemn. Hopefully some day you will experience disillusionment and be drawn to impartial contemplation. Then you will experience your ignorance and won't need to complain and condemn. The transition from disillusionment into the experiential recognition of the human condition can be a very rewarding experience. I know it to be true.

[Greta]

Some are open to pondering what is meant and what wisdom actually is and some like you and Greta are only capable of complaining and attacking.

Actually this thread was all about you COMPLAINING about Trump being made into a scapegoat, and then as usual you ATTACKED secularists.

Meanwhile, I game good grounds for complaints about Trump - a long list of legitimate complaints.

Here is the list of things that you refuse to condemn in your beloved Trump:

• his lifelong environmental irresponsibility

• his encouragement of increased destruction of US wildlife areas and reduced protections for redisents' drinking water in some areas

• refusal to properly separate himself from his business interests (certainly not by any standard a corporate executive would be held accountable for) while in office and opening the Dakota pipeline for his family wealth against informed advice regarding the environment

• racist dog whistling

• his regular wild lying

• his attempts to dismantle the checks and balances on one individual's power in a democracy

• collusion with Russia to get dirt on Clinton before the election and subsequent attempts to shut the investigations down ro avoid accountability

• his refusal to show his tax returns because you can bet he didn't have to pay any

• his relative lack of philanthropy, given his circumstances

• "pussy grabbing" and bragging about it and not being ashamed

• attempts to damage the free press aside from his new friends at Fox.

[Dubious]

As of now all you do is complain and condemn. Hopefully some day you will experience disillusionment and be drawn to impartial contemplation. Then you will experience your ignorance and won't need to complain and condemn. The transition from disillusionment into the experiential recognition of the human condition can be a very rewarding experience. I know it to be true.

Spoken like any would be guru who thinks he knows while knowing nothing. Types like you have always existed. It's how you make yourself special on the cheap by borrowing constantly from others as if you were one of the Cardinals in their inner sanctum.

Perhaps one day you will realize how pathetic you are and it won't be a rewarding experience. Knowing also implies identifying those who only pretend to know.

[Nick_A]

Greta's obsession with Trump prevents her from experiencing that she is part of the problem. She makes a fist with one finger pointing at Trump. She doesn't realize that the other three are pointing at her.

This is secularism at its worst. It is the dominance of the ego which attempts to glorify itself. Consider how the author of this article provides an example of foolish complaining and condemning. Serena Williams broke rule in a tennis match and threw a fit complaining and condemning the umpire. Why?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... g-back-you

.............Serena's opponent, Samantha Stosur, surprised us all with her mental and physical toughness. Stosur swiftly claimed the first set, 6-2 , before the fireworks started to fly. Williams is a tough competitor and, staring down a break point in the first game of the second set, she hit a smoking winner across court. But before the point was over, she enthusiastically cried out, "Come on!" A champion must have fire in the belly but, as it turns out, Serena had expressed her exuberance too soon, before the point was over and Stosur got her racket on the ball. The chair umpire called Serena's shout-out a "hindrance" to the play and gave the point to Samantha. A by-the-book call, but one which flipped Serena's switch.

Fire in the belly became a torrent of attack and paranoia. Serena made an innocent mistake which she couldn't admit. She was losing the match which she couldn't bear. She took it all out on the chair umpire. An easy target.

Serena called the chair umpire a "loser" and a "hater." She said that she wasn't a "nice person" and was "unattractive inside." She accused her of being out to get her. It was ugly. While I could understand where Serena's tirade was coming from, I just wanted to say, "Take a look in the mirror, sister. Three fingers are pointing back to you."

We all know what it's like to get caught up in the heat of the moment. When we cannot bear to see something painful in ourselves, we want to get rid of it. We want to relocate the ugliness we feel about ourselves and put it into someone else. We say those bad feelings do not apply to us; they apply to someone else.

The fancy psychoanalytic term for this unconscious process is projective identification. We get rid of the unwanted feelings (projection) and identify them as belonging to someone else (identification). I call it the shame relocation plan.

It is no surprise that the very labels that Serena placed on the umpire were aspects of herself that she couldn't face just then. She was losing. She was hating. She wasn't feeling very nice or attractive. She didn't want to look at herself. Those are some intense feelings to bear..................

Greta complains and condemns while not having a clue as to why she creates the scapegoat of Donald Trump in this case.

Greta just posts talking points most of which are untrue but denies her own faults. How does that improve the world situation? It doesn't but to admit why may be a step in the right direction.

Matthew 7:3-5 New International Version (NIV)

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye..

[Greta]

Here is the list of things that you refuse to condemn in your beloved Trump. It is time for you to stop squirming and throwing around your usual toxic spray and address the issues.

You need to explain why you do not believe each of these are not a problem - one by one - not as a group. Otherwise you are complicit, part of the problem:

• his lifelong environmental irresponsibility

• his encouragement of increased destruction of US wildlife areas and reduced protections for redisents' drinking water in some areas

• refusal to properly separate himself from his business interests (certainly not by any standard a corporate executive would be held accountable for) while in office and opening the Dakota pipeline for his family wealth against informed advice regarding the environment

• racist dog whistling

• his regular wild lying

• his attempts to dismantle the checks and balances on one individual's power in a democracy

• collusion with Russia to get dirt on Clinton before the election and subsequent attempts to shut the investigations down ro avoid accountability

• his refusal to show his tax returns because you can bet he didn't have to pay any

• his relative lack of philanthropy, given his circumstances

• "pussy grabbing" and bragging about it and not being ashamed

• attempts to damage the free press aside from his new friends at Fox.

[Nick_A]

As of now all you do is complain and condemn. Hopefully some day you will experience disillusionment and be drawn to impartial contemplation. Then you will experience your ignorance and won't need to complain and condemn. The transition from disillusionment into the experiential recognition of the human condition can be a very rewarding experience. I know it to be true.

Spoken like any would be guru who thinks he knows while knowing nothing. Types like you have always existed. It's how you make yourself special on the cheap by borrowing constantly from others as if you were one of the Cardinals in their inner sanctum.

Perhaps one day you will realize how pathetic you are and it won't be a rewarding experience. Knowing also implies identifying those who only pretend to know.

You are just another spirit killer with a hatred of ideas which nourish both the inner man and society itself. Of course I've been moved by the great ideas introduced into the world by those far greater than me. Philosophy offers a means to either share on them or experience how and why they must be condemned. You've helped me to understand the emotional rigidity forcing so many to hate and condemn them.

[Nick_A]

Greta

You need to explain why you do not believe each of these are not a problem - one by one - not as a group. Otherwise you are complicit, part of the problem:

Missing the point. It is you who must explain why you express the dominant quality of denial which compels you to create scapegoats. You, me, and Trump will all pass away but the human condition remains. Why do you support it with such passion by creating the scapegoat of Trump?

[Greta]

Greta

You need to explain why you do not believe each of these are not a problem - one by one - not as a group. Otherwise you are complicit, part of the problem:

Missing the point. It is you who must explain why you express the dominant quality of denial which compels you to create scapegoats. You, me, and Trump will all pass away but the human condition remains. Why do you support it with such passion by creating the scapegoat of Trump?

Because we are at a sensitive tipping point. Actions done or undone at this stage will have amplified effects.

I am thus passionate about not destroying the environment and other creatures at a faster rate than is necessary. I am passionate about not being arrogantly wasteful with the natural environment. Thus I am passionately anti-Trump as a leader.

Mostly, YOU need to justify why you would support such a politician. Your ethics are otherwise in question, if they weren't already.

[Dubious]

As of now all you do is complain and condemn. Hopefully some day you will experience disillusionment and be drawn to impartial contemplation. Then you will experience your ignorance and won't need to complain and condemn. The transition from disillusionment into the experiential recognition of the human condition can be a very rewarding experience. I know it to be true.

Spoken like any would be guru who thinks he knows while knowing nothing. Types like you have always existed. It's how you make yourself special on the cheap by borrowing constantly from others as if you were one of the Cardinals in their inner sanctum.

Perhaps one day you will realize how pathetic you are and it won't be a rewarding experience. Knowing also implies identifying those who only pretend to know.

You are just another spirit killer with a hatred of ideas which nourish both the inner man and society itself. Of course I've been moved by the great ideas introduced into the world by those far greater than me. Philosophy offers a means to either share on them or experience how and why they must be condemned. You've helped me to understand the emotional rigidity forcing so many to hate and condemn them.

No! I don't hate THEIR IDEAS but I'm also not obliged to agree with all of them just as Bertrand Russell in many instances didn't agree with Plato. Anyone who THINKS, whose mind is not permanently conditioned by dogma can measure their own ability to ponder against any ponderings of the past.

It's your use of those ideas I find disgusting, despicable and reprehensible since you fraudulently interpret only in accordance with your own debased theories of enlightenment. You're a mountebank, a bamboozler of the worst kind presumptuously claiming what is not within your ability or right to claim. One has to be a bloody idiot not to recognize something so obvious as your decrepit methodology by which you labor to enhance yourself.

The kind of person you are is precisely what the world doesn't need, never needed and never will need. God knows, it has to put up with enough human trash already. You're just another sick addition to the landfill...along with Trump!

[Nick_A]

Greta

You need to explain why you do not believe each of these are not a problem - one by one - not as a group. Otherwise you are complicit, part of the problem:

Missing the point. It is you who must explain why you express the dominant quality of denial which compels you to create scapegoats. You, me, and Trump will all pass away but the human condition remains. Why do you support it with such passion by creating the scapegoat of Trump?

Because we are at a sensitive tipping point. Actions done or undone at this stage will have amplified effects.

I am thus passionate about not destroying the environment and other creatures at a faster rate than is necessary. I am passionate about not being arrogantly wasteful with the natural environment. Thus I am passionately anti-Trump as a leader.

Mostly, YOU need to justify why you would support such a politician. Your ethics are otherwise in question, if they weren't already.

You assume choice where it doesn't exist. Just take the simple concept of greed. Is a free society possible to sustain if it falls victim to the effects of greed? Of course not. The environment which disturbs you will deteriorate as will natural life. What kind of leader is possible who can deal with the natural devolution into greed. Is it only a tyrant who could produce a slave state capable of controlling greed by force?

Before arguing about what should be done you have to understand why everything is as it is. Why must the great experiment called America offering the benefits of freedom for all deteriorate into the effects of selfish greed? Can you give me an answer that is not an attack on Trump?

[gaffo]

The religious mind accepts that it is the "wretched man as described by St. Paul. Accepting the human condition is the first step to transcending it. The progressive mind in contrast must blame something or someone else. The success of the progressive agenda requires a scapegoat to blame. The scapegoat now is Donald Trump

scape·goat
ˈskāpˌɡōt/Submit
noun
1.
a person who is blamed for the wrongdoings, mistakes, or faults of others, especially for reasons of expediency.
synonyms: whipping boy; More
2.
(in the Bible) a goat sent into the wilderness after the Jewish chief priest had symbolically laid the sins of the people upon it (Lev. 16).
verb
1.
make a scapegoat of.

The progressive mind could never come to realize the deep meaning in the following quotation:

“We have met the enemy and he is us”

What an insult! It is absurd to think that the progressive mind is part of the enemy. The enemy is the scapegoat for the progressives and presently it is Donald Trump. To suggest otherwise is an insult to the educated progressive mind - the only one capable of defining and condemning the scapegoat

i'm more concerned with the definition of Fascism.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

Definition of fascism

1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

[gaffo]

But again, I am not a progressive.

no, you clearly are not Comrade.