The Scapegoat

[Nick_A]

You demonstrate rather than deny your complete lack of interest in slowing of destruction of natural systems.

If we are to talk of shallowness, your lack of interest in, or understanding of, the interconnectedness of natural systems summarises your stance.

Individually I've done my share such as volunteering for efforts to help clean up the Hudson River in NY.

The planet is a living machine governed b natural laws. Genesis asserts that Man took care of the garden. We have an inner garden and there is the garden of the world which we have an obligation to take care of. But the fallen human condition prevents it. It doesn't allow recognition of what we are. Without recognition why do you believe anything in the world can be different from what it is? Do you really believe political posturing will make a difference to the grand collective governed by universal laws? No. Everything will end up being an expression of the human condition.

If experiencing and admitting what we are rather than arguing preconceptions is the only practical solution allowing our race to become normal, those who battle politics rather than making the efforts at self knowledge are part of the problem. rather than the solution

"Only Fools fight in a Burning House" You've forgotten that the house, the big picture caused by the fallen human condition, is burning and want to battle details like attacking Trump. Secular progressive logic which insists on fighting details makes sense to you but for me it leads to a dead end since it either ignores or openly denies the fallen human condition which is the cause of why everything is as it is..

[Greta]

You demonstrate rather than deny your complete lack of interest in slowing of destruction of natural systems.

If we are to talk of shallowness, your lack of interest in, or understanding of, the interconnectedness of natural systems summarises your stance.

Individually I've done my share such as volunteering for efforts to help clean up the Hudson River in NY.

The planet is a living machine governed b natural laws. Genesis asserts that Man took care of the garden. We have an inner garden and there is the garden of the world which we have an obligation to take care of. But the fallen human condition prevents it. It doesn't allow recognition of what we are. Without recognition why do you believe anything in the world can be different from what it is? Do you really believe political posturing will make a difference to the grand collective governed by universal laws? No. Everything will end up being an expression of the human condition.

If experiencing and admitting what we are rather than arguing preconceptions is the only practical solution allowing our race to become normal, those who battle politics rather than making the efforts at self knowledge are part of the problem. rather than the solution

"Only Fools fight in a Burning House" You've forgotten that the house, the big picture caused by the fallen human condition, is burning and want to battle details like attacking Trump. Secular progressive logic which insists on fighting details makes sense to you but for me it leads to a dead end since it either ignores or openly denies the fallen human condition which is the cause of why everything is as it is..

I attack Trump and his supporters due to:
- his lifelong environmental irresponsibility
- his encouragement of increased destruction of US wildlife areas and reduced protections for redisents' drinking water in some areas
- refusal to properly separate himself from his business interests (certainly not by any standard a corporate executive would be held accountable for) while in office and opening the Dakota pipeline for his family wealth against informed advice regarding the environment
- racist dog whistling
- his regular wild lying
- his attempts to dismantle the checks and balances on one individual's power in a democracy
- collusion with Russia to get dirt on Clinton before the election and subsequent attempts to shut the investigations down ro avoid accountability
- his refusal to show his tax returns because you can bet he didn't have to pay any
- his relative lack of philanthropy, given his circumstances
- "pussy grabbing" and bragging about it and not being ashamed
- attempts to damage the free press aside from his new friends at Fox.

I have forgotten quite a few, no doubt.

So yes, I have a problem when the leader of the free world is working to undermine the democracy, when many thousands of young Americans and others were not so long ago sent to their deaths in an attempt to impose democracy on Middle Eastern dictatorships. I need not apologise for having a problem with that. I've not noticed you apologising for wanting to outlaw the abortion of blastocysts. We have different values.

Even by your own creed, humans were supposed to "take care of the garden". That has not worked out well, so the obvious response is to try to undo some of the damage or at least slow it. Instead Trump accelerates it. That's short-sighted, irresponsible, and there will be real consequences hurting people's lives and natural reserves as a result. However, the consequences will be broad enough not to be pinned on him; there is no accountability in this area.

I do not expect the world to be different to how it is. I've said many times on this forum that humans were always going to overpopulate. It was always only going to be a matter of when (barring killer asteroids and supervolcanoes).

However, there may be technological measures that can at least ensure the survival of a sizeable number of people and/or ecosystems. If planetary systems break down too quickly then we lose the chance to devise counter measures and risk losing civilisation altogether and causing avoidable damage on top of the unavoidable destruction of existence.

Time is of the essence here; we need to buy time, if not to save ourselves to at least save some of future generations. Instead, Comrade Trump, your man in power is not only accelerating the damage, he's driving it as hard and fast as he can. It's psychopathic behaviour that's largely being supported and enabled by evangelist Christians like yourself.

[Nick_A]

Greta, you attack Trump because of your hatred for all ideas which invite you to “know thyself” Some of what you wrote about Trump like collusion is obviously silly but it doesn’t bother you and others who believe the ends justify the means. It isn’t just you. The world hates anything disturbing the status quo of Plato’s cave. Trump represents the willingness to doubt the imaginary superiority of the political secular progressive agenda so is considered intolerable..

You wrote a long list of what you believe is wrong with Trump. Could you make an equally long list about what is wrong with you?

[Dubious]

Greta, you attack Trump because of your hatred for all ideas which invite you to “know thyself” Some of what you wrote about Trump like collusion is obviously silly but it doesn’t bother you and others who believe the ends justify the means. It isn’t just you. The world hates anything disturbing the status quo of Plato’s cave. Trump represents the willingness to doubt the imaginary superiority of the political secular progressive agenda so is considered intolerable..

You wrote a long list of what you believe is wrong with Trump. Could you make an equally long list about what is wrong with you?

I wasn't going to get involved with all of your abject ignorant twaddle but this has to be one of the dumbest posts I've ever read anywhere! Is rank stupidity and ignorance all that's left to you for defense? It appears so. You seem to be already in the twilight zone of complete asininity which even the stupid refuse to inhabit...one of the mental Morlocks in Plato's Cave.

"Trump represents the willingness to doubt the imaginary superiority of the political secular progressive agenda so is considered intolerable."

If you could have said this to Trump he wouldn't even have known what you're talking about. Probably would have considered it FAKE NEWS and in this case he would have been right without specifically knowing why

Pathetic is the ONLY WAY to describe you.

[Greta]

Greta, you attack Trump because of your hatred for all ideas which invite you to “know thyself”

No, I told you exactly why I have a huge problem with Trump and "leaders" of his ilk.

There is a long list directly above.

Please re-read the list. You appear to have missed all of those items because not one gave you cause for concern.

[Greta]

You seem to be already in the twilight zone of complete asininity which even the stupid refuse to inhabit...one of the mental Morlocks in Plato's Cave.

That is simply beautiful prose. It's bang on too

[Greta]

The list of my issues with Trump might be easier to read with bullet points:

• his lifelong environmental irresponsibility

• his encouragement of increased destruction of US wildlife areas and reduced protections for redisents' drinking water in some areas

• refusal to properly separate himself from his business interests (certainly not by any standard a corporate executive would be held accountable for) while in office and opening the Dakota pipeline for his family wealth against informed advice regarding the environment

• racist dog whistling

• his regular wild lying

• his attempts to dismantle the checks and balances on one individual's power in a democracy

• collusion with Russia to get dirt on Clinton before the election and subsequent attempts to shut the investigations down ro avoid accountability

• his refusal to show his tax returns because you can bet he didn't have to pay any

• his relative lack of philanthropy, given his circumstances

• "pussy grabbing" and bragging about it and not being ashamed

• attempts to damage the free press aside from his new friends at Fox.

[Nick_A]

Greta, you attack Trump because of your hatred for all ideas which invite you to “know thyself” Some of what you wrote about Trump like collusion is obviously silly but it doesn’t bother you and others who believe the ends justify the means. It isn’t just you. The world hates anything disturbing the status quo of Plato’s cave. Trump represents the willingness to doubt the imaginary superiority of the political secular progressive agenda so is considered intolerable..

You wrote a long list of what you believe is wrong with Trump. Could you make an equally long list about what is wrong with you?

I wasn't going to get involved with all of your abject ignorant twaddle but this has to be one of the dumbest posts I've ever read anywhere! Is rank stupidity and ignorance all that's left to you for defense? It appears so. You seem to be already in the twilight zone of complete asininity which even the stupid refuse to inhabit...one of the mental Morlocks in Plato's Cave.

"Trump represents the willingness to doubt the imaginary superiority of the political secular progressive agenda so is considered intolerable."

If you could have said this to Trump he wouldn't even have known what you're talking about. Probably would have considered it FAKE NEWS and in this case he would have been right without specifically knowing why

Pathetic is the ONLY WAY to describe you.

The best way to describe you is "gullible. This old Russian proverb fits you like a glove

“Better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie”

You demand to be kissed with lies because they justify your preconceptions. The truth is too shocking so must remain intolerable.

[Nick_A]

The list of my issues with Trump might be easier to read with bullet points:

• his lifelong environmental irresponsibility

• his encouragement of increased destruction of US wildlife areas and reduced protections for redisents' drinking water in some areas

• refusal to properly separate himself from his business interests (certainly not by any standard a corporate executive would be held accountable for) while in office and opening the Dakota pipeline for his family wealth against informed advice regarding the environment

• racist dog whistling

• his regular wild lying

• his attempts to dismantle the checks and balances on one individual's power in a democracy

• collusion with Russia to get dirt on Clinton before the election and subsequent attempts to shut the investigations down ro avoid accountability

• his refusal to show his tax returns because you can bet he didn't have to pay any

• his relative lack of philanthropy, given his circumstances

• "pussy grabbing" and bragging about it and not being ashamed

• attempts to damage the free press aside from his new friends at Fox.

This thread is about scapegoats. Where is your list of what is wrong with you that compels you to create scapegoats rather than see yourself as part of the problem?

[Dubious]

The best way to describe you is "gullible. This old Russian proverb fits you like a glove

“Better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie”

If truth were the highest skyscraper on the planet you wouldn't recognize it if it collapsed on you.

It never ceases to amaze, but shouldn't, how the mentally deranged or malignantly perverse never fail to accuse others of what they themselves are most guilty of as if desperate to project a type of subliminal contagion away from themselves. Like the most consummate of hypocrites you constantly talk about openness and yet your skull seems laminated with lead since you never hear what anyone else is saying. I suppose being one of those unquestionable knowers of truth you have no other choice but to react that way.

The truth that YOU espouse is finalized and will not be curtailed by anyone else's mere opinions or worse, hideous secular lies...nicht wahr?

From the little I know of Simone Weil she would have despised your hero worship of her and more likely have spit in your face!

You demand to be kissed with lies because they justify your preconceptions. The truth is too shocking so must remain intolerable.

Your "truth" is thoroughly totalitarian and Calvinistic not unlike what it's been among the main religions for a few thousand years. You're nothing more than a vestigial throw back. Wisdom is an ongoing project not a finished product. It's compass moves as the mind moves.

You're a perfect example of the first clause of an old Persian proverb.

He who knows not and KNOWS NOT that he knows not is a fool...avoid him.

If you're ever interested in upgrading yourself, this is the second clause:

He knows not and KNOWS that he knows not is a child...teach him

...can't tell whether you're running out of time on this one!

[Dubious]

You seem to be already in the twilight zone of complete asininity which even the stupid refuse to inhabit...one of the mental Morlocks in Plato's Cave.

That is simply beautiful prose. It's bang on too

If it is, I have Nick to thank for the inspiration!

[Nick_A]

The best way to describe you is "gullible. This old Russian proverb fits you like a glove

“Better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie”

If truth were the highest skyscraper on the planet you wouldn't recognize it if it collapsed on you.

It never ceases to amaze, but shouldn't, how the mentally deranged or malignantly perverse never fail to accuse others of what they themselves are most guilty of as if desperate to project a type of subliminal contagion away from themselves. Like the most consummate of hypocrites you constantly talk about openness and yet your skull seems laminated with lead since you never hear what anyone else is saying. I suppose being one of those unquestionable knowers of truth you have no other choice but to react that way.

The truth that YOU espouse is finalized and will not be curtailed by anyone else's mere opinions or worse, hideous secular lies...nicht wahr?

From the little I know of Simone Weil she would have despised your hero worship of her and more likely have spit in your face!

You demand to be kissed with lies because they justify your preconceptions. The truth is too shocking so must remain intolerable.

Your "truth" is thoroughly totalitarian and Calvinistic not unlike what it's been among the main religions for a few thousand years. You're nothing more than a vestigial throw back. Wisdom is an ongoing project not a finished product. It's compass moves as the mind moves.

You're a perfect example of the first clause of an old Persian proverb.

He who knows not and KNOWS NOT that he knows not is a fool...avoid him.

If you're ever interested in upgrading yourself, this is the second clause:

He knows not and KNOWS that he knows not is a child...teach him

...can't tell whether you're running out of time on this one!

All this proves is that you are controlled by preconceptions without the freedom of impartial reason. I'm the one who admits to being in Plato's cave so like Socrates, I know nothing. You don't know what it means to know much less even have respect for wisdom. Your conceit leads you to believe we invent it. You deny yourself even the intellectual grasp of eternal wisdom (Sophia Perennis.)

Wisdom is an ongoing project not a finished product. It's compass moves as the mind moves.

No. wisdom always was. It is a finished product that an be remembered by a person with the humility to be a conscious ongoing project.

...the question may be asked whether the sophia perennis is a "humanism"; the answer would in principle be "yes", but in fact it must be "no" since humanism in the conventional sense of the term de facto exalts fallen man and not man as such. The humanism of the moderns is practically an utilitarianism aimed at fragmentary man; it is the will to make oneself as useful as possible to a humanity as useless as possible.
[To Have a Center, Frithjof Schuon, p. viii]

Like DP you don't know what a man is and yet think you can know what wisdom is and who it objectively refers to.

You like to attack but lack the awareness of top down structure necessary to understand what is meant by fragmentary man necessary to make philosophy meaningful for human being.

[Greta]

The list of my issues with Trump might be easier to read with bullet points:

• his lifelong environmental irresponsibility

• his encouragement of increased destruction of US wildlife areas and reduced protections for redisents' drinking water in some areas

• refusal to properly separate himself from his business interests (certainly not by any standard a corporate executive would be held accountable for) while in office and opening the Dakota pipeline for his family wealth against informed advice regarding the environment

• racist dog whistling

• his regular wild lying

• his attempts to dismantle the checks and balances on one individual's power in a democracy

• collusion with Russia to get dirt on Clinton before the election and subsequent attempts to shut the investigations down ro avoid accountability

• his refusal to show his tax returns because you can bet he didn't have to pay any

• his relative lack of philanthropy, given his circumstances

• "pussy grabbing" and bragging about it and not being ashamed

• attempts to damage the free press aside from his new friends at Fox.

This thread is about scapegoats. Where is your list of what is wrong with you that compels you to create scapegoats rather than see yourself as part of the problem?

A pathetically transparent evasion and non-response. Why are you on these forums if you are going to be be so abysmal and inadequate.

You are simply wasting everyone's time with such an approach.

[Nick_A]

Greta

N. This thread is about scapegoats. Where is your list of what is wrong with you that compels you to create scapegoats rather than see yourself as part of the problem?

G. A pathetically transparent evasion and non-response. Why are you on these forums if you are going to be be so abysmal and inadequate.

You are simply wasting everyone's time with such an approach.

What could be worse for the online secular progressive mind than a thread about scapegoats being concerned with the creation of scapegoats? Absurd! It should devolve into a meaningless attempt at condemnation against Trump. Anything less is unworthy of the glory of the secular progressive mindset.

[Greta]

... meaningless attempt at condemnation against Trump.

• his lifelong environmental irresponsibility

• his encouragement of increased destruction of US wildlife areas and reduced protections for redisents' drinking water in some areas

• refusal to properly separate himself from his business interests (certainly not by any standard a corporate executive would be held accountable for) while in office and opening the Dakota pipeline for his family wealth against informed advice regarding the environment

• racist dog whistling

• his regular wild lying

• his attempts to dismantle the checks and balances on one individual's power in a democracy

• collusion with Russia to get dirt on Clinton before the election and subsequent attempts to shut the investigations down ro avoid accountability

• his refusal to show his tax returns because you can bet he didn't have to pay any

• his relative lack of philanthropy, given his circumstances

• "pussy grabbing" and bragging about it and not being ashamed

• attempts to damage the free press aside from his new friends at Fox.