What can be done to increase humanity’s conscience?

For all things philosophical.

Moderators: AMod, iMod

seeds
Posts: 2880
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:31 pm

Re: What can be done to increase humanity’s conscience?

Post by seeds »

seeds wrote: Now that may sound silly, but I honestly believe that such higher visualizations of our shared situation on this tiny orb might aid in the raising of humanity’s overall awareness of the utter insanity of the artificial and imaginary walls that divide us based on religious and political ideologies.
Dubious wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 10:21 am One would hope that’s true but I doubt it. If, with all the pictures of the Milky Way galaxy, in which we barely exist as a speck, we still aren’t convinced how would a 3D representation of our minuscule outpost accomplish it...
If you are referring to pictures of a full-on view of a spiral galaxy as seen from afar, then they are not the Milky Way galaxy. We’ve never seen a full-on shot of our galaxy. Nevertheless, I get your point.

But again, those are two-dimensional photographs of something that is so huge and so beyond our ability to fully grasp what we are seeing that they are useless in terms of what I am suggesting.

Again, the point is to allow each of us to personally experience a stereoscopic vision of the earth in a way that is almost precisely as the astronauts see it (with a true perspective of parallax relative to the stars and open space in general).

I may be wrong, but I think it would have a profound affect on us.
seeds wrote: Now of course I am just speaking metaphorically here, but think of the measures mentioned in the prior post as having something in common with the monolith in the movie “2001: A Space Odyssey” that helped the apes (our ancestors) to awaken into a higher level of consciousness, with the ultimate point being that we may be on the cusp of another transformative awakening...
Dubious wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 10:21 am ...Recall the monolith in the story was an object planted by some mysterious alien intelligence. We don’t have any such guidance to affect us or move us forward...
And this is where our perspectives diverge, for I do believe there is a guiding intelligence. And just like the mysterious and inexplicable monolith, it nudges us along – incrementally - so as to allow us to evolve on the surface of this orb in a way that always feels logical and natural to us.
Dubious wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 10:21 am ...We can only imagine such an ideal event with virtually zero probability of it happening...
But it has already happened (at least once, anyway) in the transition upwards from the “ignorance is bliss” level of animal consciousness, to that of the human level of consciousness...

...(all of which is metaphorically depicted in the Eden myth when humans suddenly became aware of their nakedness – as in full “self-awareness,” along with the ability to discern good from evil).

And all I am suggesting is that there are even greater levels of awakening (similar in significance as that first one) that are yet to be achieved.

Again, Dubious, you have presented another extremely insightful take on the issue, but I’m still not seeing you come up with any proactive measures we can employ. Now I know I may be asking the impossible of you, however, you seem to be projecting a sense of surrender and resignation to our dilemma.
_______
seeds
Posts: 2880
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:31 pm

Re: What can be done to increase humanity’s conscience?

Post by seeds »

seeds wrote: Now that may sound silly, but I honestly believe that such higher visualizations of our shared situation on this tiny orb might aid in the raising of humanity’s overall awareness of the utter insanity of the artificial and imaginary walls that divide us based on religious and political ideologies.
Dubious wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 10:21 am One would hope that’s true but I doubt it. If, with all the pictures of the Milky Way galaxy, in which we barely exist as a speck, we still aren’t convinced how would a 3D representation of our minuscule outpost accomplish it...though as mentioned, it would be something to behold.
Lacewing wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:40 pm I think it's a good idea, Seeds... and I think anything that effectively unveils broader realities, can help expand awareness for those who look up from their smaller imaginings and creations -- and the more people who do that, the more broader realities are revealed to more people. Our individual transmissions into the COLLECTIVE of humankind could raise the consciousness level too. Like ants that explore ahead of the colony, and then come back to describe the larger world... and provide guidance for getting there.
Thank you Lacewing, and in playing off of your ant analogy, imagine a highly fanciful thought experiment where we were somehow able to infuse an ant’s brain with all of the information held in Einstein’s brain.

Now picture that ant going back to the colony and conveying information about these higher beings called humans, while scribbling equations on the side of a pebble in an enthusiastic attempt to pass on enlightenment (i.e., valid truths pertaining to reality) to the other ants.

The other ants, having no use or tolerance for such aberrant behavior, would quickly attack and pinch off “Antstein’s” head. :D

There are tunnels to be excavated, food to be gathered, and eggs to be tended to, wherein any disturbance of the group mentality in a way that might disrupt the carrying-out of those fundamental processes, will be met with intense resistance.

Now the moral of the story is that it is a precise analogy of the human condition, wherein anyone who ventures outward (or more accurately, “upward”) to explore ahead of the human colony, are oftentimes subjected to the same fate as Antstein (more at ridiculed and ignored).

The rest of your excellent post is filled with spot-on observations of which I completely agree with, although (if you don’t mind) I would like you to expand on this...
Lacewing wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:40 pm My response to the question of this thread... on the individual level... is "to consciously model alternatives to the status quo".
...and perhaps offer some examples of what those alternatives might be.
_______
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 10708
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: What can be done to increase humanity’s conscience?

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

seeds wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 12:19 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:40 pmPain....
Care to elaborate?

And remember, we are looking for actionable “proactive” solutions, not “reactive” solutions.
_______
People respect brutality and fear. Part of the reason for this is because modern industrialization (and yes I talk about industrialization like a broken record) spoiled us like children. Many people believe they have not earned the right to live, and many people subconsciously feel this because life has been "too easy" or they were never able to "make a sacrifice", have an inherent element of "guilt" as a feeling of worthless tied into their identities. We can see this mirrored to a degree in the self-esteem movement, problems in gender identity (no specific roles of responsibility to fill), etc.

The simple truth is that with great power comes great boredom, and it is not so much the problem that people feel powerless but they feel useless because of the power we have. This uselessness as the inability to contribute, or exchange, a part of one self for something or someone greater causes the individual to turn inwards and create "illusions" to sacrifice themselves to. Excessive material consumption or values observes a part of this inward illusion as these things are meant to fill gaps or deficiencies in the psyche...yet ironically do not when placed on a pedestal.

The simple truth is that the best answer would be to "love your neighbor as yourself", help someone in need, etc....but the problem occurs in the respect that the majority of people do not care enough to do such things because of it's difficulty, but because of an inherent apathy ingrained in their natures due to this regressive cycle.

People want destruction, people want to be dominated and oppressed, people want ruin...why? Guilt and the inability to get outside oneself. So the solution...a practical one? Well "love" is the truest form...but people won't listen to that advice for the above argued reasons and because it is linked to effimancency and weakness due this word being linked to mother's and the religious right (mostly women). Modern society has become a stiffling womb which does not allow the individual to extend outward and in these terms is a vindictive mother of the worst sort...just look at how the women on this forum behave...

The second solution? A dictator of the most brutal and cruelest sort to break the will of the people and give them the gift of "nothingness" and "despair". This rock bottom will balance the materialistic extreme and result in mediation between materialistic extremes and the aforementioned poverty. Bloodshed, the universal act of sacrifice we see within all institutions, provides the starting point of a new world.

Unless people are willing to change their ways, war is the necessary answer. And this war? No sides...just anarchy.
User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 6722
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: What can be done to increase humanity’s conscience?

Post by Lacewing »

seeds wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 12:21 am The other ants, having no use or tolerance for such aberrant behavior, would quickly attack and pinch off “Antstein’s” head. :D
:lol: :lol: Hilarious! Loved your Antology.

Regarding my comment about "consciously modeling alternatives to the status quo"... which you have asked me to expand on...

So, the way I see it, people are convinced by patterns and paths and rules... and the things they are told. They lock themselves into robotic thinking and behaviors as a result. And they often prefer "expected results" over something more expansive. Let's use a monkey example for fun... if a monkey knows that it will always get a small piece of banana if it pushes levers 1 or 2, it will probably never push additional levers that are added... which might have a whole bunch of bananas. :D

Modeling alternatives can demonstrate the rewards and potential of stepping outside of the system -- as well as conquering myths about capability/potential. So, for example, being a woman who goes head-to-head with men who would seek to control or silence her. Or excelling in career and life without having a traditional path to do so. Or being a visionary without relying on a certain education or religion. There are so many people and ways that "break the rules" to demonstrate/model our freedom FROM those patterns and rules. And in doing so, I think, we point to the chains that we are shackled by. Other people notice, and start breaking their shackles too.

I hope those are good enough examples. I don't want to go into detail about my own personal modeling strategies. 8) But I can say that I do it a lot in my life... because I really do care and love a lot. I wish freedom for all. I've been breaking the rules throughout my life... when appropriate... and I think it's much easier to accomplish more through freedom.
User avatar
bahman
Posts: 9284
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: What can be done to increase humanity’s conscience?

Post by bahman »

We need to evolve a little more.
seeds
Posts: 2880
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:31 pm

Re: What can be done to increase humanity’s conscience?

Post by seeds »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 12:32 am Pain....
seeds wrote: Care to elaborate?

And remember, we are looking for actionable “proactive” solutions, not “reactive” solutions.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 12:32 am People respect brutality and fear.
Anyone who would resort to brutality and fear as a means of achieving a goal is precisely the kind of person who is in need of a greater sense of conscience and empathy.

In which case, the implementation of brutality and fear is the complete opposite of the type of solution that the OP is asking for.

In sifting through the somewhat dark and dystopianish attitude inherent in your reply...

(a reply, btw, that included a completely unnecessary and offensive allusion to the women on this forum, which calls into question the status of your own level of conscience and empathy)

...the only thing that I resonated with is this:
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 12:32 am The simple truth is that the best answer would be to "love your neighbor as yourself", help someone in need, etc....but the problem occurs in the respect that the majority of people do not care enough to do such things because of it's difficulty, but because of an inherent apathy ingrained in their natures...
(I assume you meant to say “...the majority of people do not care enough to do such things, (not) because of its difficulty, but because of an inherent apathy ingrained in their natures...” right?)

So the question is (and without subjecting them to fear and brutality), what can we say or do (from a philosophical perspective) to get humans to care more?
_______
seeds
Posts: 2880
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:31 pm

Re: What can be done to increase humanity’s conscience?

Post by seeds »

Lacewing wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 3:19 am Modeling alternatives can demonstrate the rewards and potential of stepping outside of the system -- as well as conquering myths about capability/potential.
That’s a very good point, Lacewing.

However, you and I both know how incredibly difficult it is to get the average person to “step outside of the system,” as in step outside of the indoctrination of a particular religion, or political ideology, or nationality, or race, or even gender.

Take the concept of gender, for example.

With just a few minor edits in the DNA of a human zygote, any one of us could have been jettisoned from our mother’s womb as the complete opposite gender of what we are now.

Yet look at how convinced most humans are of the certainty of their gender, as if it were a fixed attribute of their inner-spirit and soul.

It highlights the absurdity of the way Islamic males treat females when, in fact, they themselves could have just as easily been born a female (and vice versa).

Anyway, getting back to your point as it relates to the point I made to Eodnhoj7, what can we say or do (from a philosophical perspective) to get humans to “step outside of the system”?
_______
User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 6722
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: What can be done to increase humanity’s conscience?

Post by Lacewing »

seeds wrote: Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:29 pm you and I both know how incredibly difficult it is to get the average person to “step outside of the system,” as in step outside of the indoctrination of a particular religion, or political ideology, or nationality, or race, or even gender.
Yes, indeed! However, there are people at a stage/point that are ready to POP their reality bubbles, because (perhaps) they've come to realize how limited it is, or it's not serving them, or whatever. I imagine that all that popping creates a tide that washes throughout humankind, informing and transforming the rest. Like a critical mass pivot point or trigger. I'm sure there are good examples in nature... like the 100th monkey principle.
seeds wrote: Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:29 pm what can we say or do (from a philosophical perspective) to get humans to “step outside of the system”?
Model ourselves stepping outside of the system... highlight limited thinking... point out alternatives. People may stay stuck in patterns just because no one steps up and demonstrates a reasonable and/or better alternative. Along the lines of what bahman said, my answer in a nutshell is: Try to inspire and further evolution in as many ways as possible, in ourselves and those around us. The rest (I think) is up to bigger natural forces at work.
User avatar
QuantumT
Posts: 655
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:45 pm
Contact:

Re: What can be done to increase humanity’s conscience?

Post by QuantumT »

I grew up in the late post WW2 Europe, where my parents had every reason to cherish human lives and show more conscience. They did not. They didn't seem to give it any thought at all. Actually one of them ended up becoming a racist.

My point being: Humans are generally assholes. If they don't experience the shit themselves, they tend to care most about their own comfort. Any change to that is temporary - not lasting!

Answer to the question: Nothing can be done, that will last!
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 10708
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: What can be done to increase humanity’s conscience?

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

seeds wrote: Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:28 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 12:32 am Pain....
seeds wrote: Care to elaborate?

And remember, we are looking for actionable “proactive” solutions, not “reactive” solutions.
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 12:32 am People respect brutality and fear.
Anyone who would resort to brutality and fear as a means of achieving a goal is precisely the kind of person who is in need of a greater sense of conscience and empathy.

In which case, the implementation of brutality and fear is the complete opposite of the type of solution that the OP is asking for.

In sifting through the somewhat dark and dystopianish attitude inherent in your reply...

(a reply, btw, that included a completely unnecessary and offensive allusion to the women on this forum, which calls into question the status of your own level of conscience and empathy)

They are "empowered", it would be more sexist for you to say they cannot handle what I have to say.


...the only thing that I resonated with is this:
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 12:32 am The simple truth is that the best answer would be to "love your neighbor as yourself", help someone in need, etc....but the problem occurs in the respect that the majority of people do not care enough to do such things because of it's difficulty, but because of an inherent apathy ingrained in their natures...
(I assume you meant to say “...the majority of people do not care enough to do such things, (not) because of its difficulty, but because of an inherent apathy ingrained in their natures...” right?)

So the question is (and without subjecting them to fear and brutality), what can we say or do (from a philosophical perspective) to get humans to care more?
_______
Self sacrifice...if a person want to unload all their problems on you let them. If you know someone, a single mother with a child, or an unemployed father...help them with there respective needs even if it just means leaving something on their door-step.

A simple act of kindness and mercy can change a person's life. We live in a world of constant judgement...and we have seen the fruits of it...and it is the same old thing over and over again and becomes very boring after awhile.

The above argument is to give clarity to the whole perspective of the situation.
User avatar
Systematic
Posts: 365
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:29 am

Re: What can be done to increase humanity’s conscience?

Post by Systematic »

I don't know what world you're living in, but I can't get anyone to help me fight for our rights because of their own conscience.
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 10708
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: What can be done to increase humanity’s conscience?

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Systematic wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:33 am I don't know what world you're living in, but I can't get anyone to help me fight for our rights because of their own conscience.
I am observing options, which is why the brutal dictator approach (as I an subjectively agree to your circumstances) will be inevitable.
User avatar
HexHammer
Posts: 3353
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 8:19 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: What can be done to increase humanity’s conscience?

Post by HexHammer »

Consciousness is completely irrelevant, it's knowledge and ability to think in relevant terms.
User avatar
Systematic
Posts: 365
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:29 am

Re: What can be done to increase humanity’s conscience?

Post by Systematic »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:39 pm
Systematic wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:33 am I don't know what world you're living in, but I can't get anyone to help me fight for our rights because of their own conscience.
I am observing options, which is why the brutal dictator approach (as I an subjectively agree to your circumstances) will be inevitable.
What about fairness and equality? Does that factor into your paradigm of conscience? Or is it a keep taking one for the team approach?
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 10708
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: What can be done to increase humanity’s conscience?

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Systematic wrote: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:19 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:39 pm
Systematic wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:33 am I don't know what world you're living in, but I can't get anyone to help me fight for our rights because of their own conscience.
I am observing options, which is why the brutal dictator approach (as I an subjectively agree to your circumstances) will be inevitable.
What about fairness and equality? Does that factor into your paradigm of conscience? Or is it a keep taking one for the team approach?
Life is unfair to all of us...in this we are all equal.
Post Reply