Lots of attacks on me, none on the ideas. I can't be bothered defending myself to such childish misrepresentations. Have fun with the ad homs if it works for you.
Any of us can speak of things we have experienced. That does not make them universally true. You guys are very gullible.
Is the concept of "God" necessary, let alone real?
Re: Is the concept of "God" necessary, let alone real?
"To be rooted is perhaps the most important and least recognized need of the human soul."
Simone Weil
Simone Weil
Re: Is the concept of "God" necessary, let alone real?
Simone may well have felt the need to be rooted. Most of us have felt the need at some time or another.
Have you ever considered that we animals are as rooted to the atmosphere via our lungs as trees are rooted to the ground?
Re: Is the concept of "God" necessary, let alone real?
You may appreciate this. Simone drew an analogy between a human being and a green plant. A healthy green plant requires good soil to nourish its roots. It also requires sunlight to enter its leaves creating chlorophyll which nourishes the plant.
A healthy society nourishes the lower parts of the collective human soul while the light of grace nourishes our higher parts. This of course raises the question as to what a healthy society actually is and how a person can get out of the psychological darkness to receive the light of grace.
A secularist would not be open to what healthy soil is that nourishes Man's roots and would be closed to the necessity for the light of grace to nourish the human psych. But it would make an interesting discussion for those open to Plato's ideas and esoteric Christianity.
Re: Is the concept of "God" necessary, let alone real?
On planet Earth what the religious may gain through their conduits is what the non-religious gain via different conduits.Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 3:40 amA secularist would not be open to what healthy soil is that nourishes Man's roots and would be closed to the necessity for the light of grace to nourish the human psych. But it would make an interesting discussion for those open to Plato's ideas and esoteric Christianity.
Yet for you there can be no equivalence because your insecure ego cannot countenance that you are not superior - that people are just people, theists and secularists alike. Your "wretched man" fad is a play at false modesty while still just talking about your favourite subject, ie. Nick
Re: Is the concept of "God" necessary, let alone real?
It sounds strange, but I can draw an analogy between a human being and a distillation tower. (I used to work in an oil refinery.)
How true is that? Were you offended when Trump called MS-13 members "animals"?
Re: Is the concept of "God" necessary, let alone real?
What most offends me about Trump is his environmental vandalism.
We are going to be the first generation for a very long time to fail to make the world a better place for our children, but where are all the theistic moralists? Mostly applauding Trump for "sticking it to the lefties", wilfully ignoring his wanton short-termist environmental vandalism.
Re: Is the concept of "God" necessary, let alone real?
Nick wrote:
Much of what you write, Nick, is devotional language. I seek from you an explicit reply not devotional language. Can you do that?
Nobody here likes cant, and perhaps you could stop being pious all the time and write as you would if you were talking to a friend at the supermarket.
What is the "light of grace? "And what is "psychological darkness"?A healthy society nourishes the lower parts of the collective human soul while the light of grace nourishes our higher parts. This of course raises the question as to what a healthy society actually is and how a person can get out of the psychological darkness to receive the light of grace.
Much of what you write, Nick, is devotional language. I seek from you an explicit reply not devotional language. Can you do that?
Nobody here likes cant, and perhaps you could stop being pious all the time and write as you would if you were talking to a friend at the supermarket.
Re: Is the concept of "God" necessary, let alone real?
Why are atheists/agnostics so adverse to answering a simple question?Greta wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:08 amWhat most offends me about Trump is his environmental vandalism.
We are going to be the first generation for a very long time to fail to make the world a better place for our children, but where are all the theistic moralists? Mostly applauding Trump for "sticking it to the lefties", wilfully ignoring his wanton short-termist environmental vandalism.
Wait. I think I know why you didn't answer. If you say you are not offended by Trump calling MS-13 "animals," then it is not true that "people are just people"; if you are offended, then you see nothing wrong with the actions of MS-13 because they just people being people.
Re: Is the concept of "God" necessary, let alone real?
Sad to see your contribution degrade. I blame Nick. You were sensible until he started whipping you up.Reflex wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:44 amWhy are atheists/agnostics so adverse to answering a simple question?Greta wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:08 amWhat most offends me about Trump is his environmental vandalism.
We are going to be the first generation for a very long time to fail to make the world a better place for our children, but where are all the theistic moralists? Mostly applauding Trump for "sticking it to the lefties", wilfully ignoring his wanton short-termist environmental vandalism.
Wait. I think I know why you didn't answer. If you say you are not offended by Trump calling MS-13 "animals," then it is not true that "people are just people"; if you are offended, then you see nothing wrong with the actions of MS-13 because they just people being people.
Trump is a liar so I don't much care what he says. The most wild humans are sometimes referred to "animals" by moronic people who fail to appreciate the beauty of other species, nor how much they have in common with those "animals".
Meanwhile Trump is dedicated to wiping animals out - the nonhuman ones. He wants to develop the world, a purely human world of brick, steel, plastic and glass because he lacks even the slightest understanding or appreciation that ecosystems are needed for most people to live. That is because he is safe in his bubble of extreme wealth and privilege and cares not a bit what happens to the poor.
The conjecture about God's existence seemed to cut a bit close to the bone for you so I understand why you would feel safer with politics and playing Nick's anti-secular game rather than addressing the ontology. Doubt must be a scary thing for a theist, but doubt is inevitable unless one refuses to suspend their logic.
Re: Is the concept of "God" necessary, let alone real?
Who needs a God when you got a programmer?
All though he might not be the admin. He could have sold the game, or be working for the company who did.
All though he might not be the admin. He could have sold the game, or be working for the company who did.
Re: Is the concept of "God" necessary, let alone real?
...can''t quite figure out what the hierarchical ramifications of that would be or who would trump who in a cosmic chess game.
Re: Is the concept of "God" necessary, let alone real?
Science points towards the programmer. But many scientists even doubt that. They'd prefer an eternal riddle to an answer. Science hate answers. They want riddles more than anything. When nature provides a riddle, they study it for countless years, and make anti-Ockham razors to solve them. Anything to debunk a non-matrial reality.
Science is a good tool. It brought us so far. But it is to much of a coward to take us all the way.