The Weakness of the Progressive Mind

[Greta]

Any chance we could get back to the OP and leave the ad hominem comments behind?

I am afraid not. On page 3 on this thread (I'm a page three girl!) I challenged Nick's claim that truth, beauty and the good are objective eternal values but he did not take on the challenge.

(Note that research makes clear that the main thing progressives lack as compared with conservatives is an overactive disgust response so the OP is really just an excuse for him to feed his addiction to fighting "secularists" - he appears to see himself as a Christian soldier, lance always at the ready to slay the dragons of secularism in service the the Great Beast ... human craziness cracks me up).

A couple of the forum conservatives are currently extolling the virtues of a clear, unencumbered "NOW". I'm not sure whether it's just a digression or if there is a implication that conservative people embrace the present moment more than progressive people. That would seem an odd thing to imply when performance artists will tend to strongly embrace the present, yet most would have progressive sympathies or at least be highly non-conservative.

[Dubious]

A couple of the forum conservatives are currently extolling the virtues of a clear, unencumbered "NOW". I'm not sure whether it's just a digression or if there is a implication that conservative people embrace the present moment more than progressive people. That would seem an odd thing to imply when performance artists will tend to strongly embrace the present, yet most would have progressive sympathies or at least be highly non-conservative.

The "unencumbered now", an excellent phrase, btw, has nothing whatever to do with progressive or conservative mentalities. It cannot be labeled. It's an experience available only to the living independent of whatever designations they otherwise adopt. Whenever an intense expression of consciousness reveals itself, time seems to concentrate into a single moment of slow torque...the feeling of complete surrender to an experience. It's mystical in the sense of being rooted in psychology and our "Elective Affinities".

The eternity we feel as mortals couldn't be more opposite to its actual meaning as we usually understand it. There's a legend that even the longest "living" vampires yearn for the annihilation of an infinite sequence of nows which is their destiny

Significance has a tendency to amplify itself where time is short. Consciousness is its own mystery; one in which time becomes a fundamental value inverse to its duration.

[Greta]

A couple of the forum conservatives are currently extolling the virtues of a clear, unencumbered "NOW". I'm not sure whether it's just a digression or if there is a implication that conservative people embrace the present moment more than progressive people. That would seem an odd thing to imply when performance artists will tend to strongly embrace the present, yet most would have progressive sympathies or at least be highly non-conservative.

The "unencumbered now", an excellent phrase, btw, has nothing whatever to do with progressive or conservative mentalities. It cannot be labeled. It's an experience available only to the living independent of whatever designations they otherwise adopt. Whenever an intense expression of consciousness reveals itself, time seems to concentrate into a single moment of slow torque...the feeling of complete surrender to an experience. It's mystical in the sense of being rooted in psychology and our "Elective Affinities".

The eternity we feel as mortals couldn't be more opposite to its actual meaning as we usually understand it. There's a legend that even the longest "living" vampires yearn for the annihilation of an infinite sequence of nows which is their destiny

Significance has a tendency to amplify itself where time is short. Consciousness is its own mystery; one in which time becomes a fundamental value inverse to its duration.

I agree, D. Good observation that the economics of scarcity extends to the metaphysical. "Now" does not seem so precious when one is tossing and turning in bed on a hot night, rather we are bother by our inability to let it die down.

[Dubious]

A couple of the forum conservatives are currently extolling the virtues of a clear, unencumbered "NOW". I'm not sure whether it's just a digression or if there is a implication that conservative people embrace the present moment more than progressive people. That would seem an odd thing to imply when performance artists will tend to strongly embrace the present, yet most would have progressive sympathies or at least be highly non-conservative.

The "unencumbered now", an excellent phrase, btw, has nothing whatever to do with progressive or conservative mentalities. It cannot be labeled. It's an experience available only to the living independent of whatever designations they otherwise adopt. Whenever an intense expression of consciousness reveals itself, time seems to concentrate into a single moment of slow torque...the feeling of complete surrender to an experience. It's mystical in the sense of being rooted in psychology and our "Elective Affinities".

The eternity we feel as mortals couldn't be more opposite to its actual meaning as we usually understand it. There's a legend that even the longest "living" vampires yearn for the annihilation of an infinite sequence of nows which is their destiny

Significance has a tendency to amplify itself where time is short. Consciousness is its own mystery; one in which time becomes a fundamental value inverse to its duration.

I agree, D. Good observation that the economics of scarcity extends to the metaphysical. "Now" does not seem so precious when one is tossing and turning in bed on a hot night, rather we are bother by our inability to let it die down.

I didn't say anything about the economics of scarcity...a completely different subject. I also know very well what it's like tossing and turning in bed on a hot or cold night; and one doesn't have to be in bed either to encounter misery! Didn't think I needed to say this.

The point of my post was what you labelled as progress or conservative cannot be labelled possessing no definition within the context presented.

It's really weird how people decipher things. More than any eternal nows most often I get the feeling of living among aliens where there's only an outward resemblance and nothing else. At this point in my life, I won't miss what's living on this planet. That eternity lasted long enough and feels as if I'm already on overtime.

[Nick_A]

Greta,

I am afraid not. On page 3 on this thread (I'm a page three girl!) I challenged Nick's claim that truth, beauty and the good are objective eternal values but he did not take on the challenge.

I don’t know why you say these things when you know they are not true. I explained eternal values on P. 4 Post by Nick_A » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:08 pm. If your mind is closed don’t blame me.

(Note that research makes clear that the main thing progressives lack as compared with conservatives is an overactive disgust response so the OP is really just an excuse for him to feed his addiction to fighting "secularists" - he appears to see himself as a Christian soldier, lance always at the ready to slay the dragons of secularism in service the the Great Beast ... human craziness cracks me up).

Your philosophies are centered around fighting religion. In contrast my philosophy centers around awakening to human meaning and purpose. While you are “against” and negative in your approach, I am “for” and positive in my approach.

Émile Chartier - There are only two kinds of scholars; those who love ideas and those who hate them.

You hate ideas that do not fit your agenda and seek to eliminate them. I enjoy ideas that challenge my beliefs. That is how I learn.

A couple of the forum conservatives are currently extolling the virtues of a clear, unencumbered "NOW". I'm not sure whether it's just a digression or if there is a implication that conservative people embrace the present moment more than progressive people. That would seem an odd thing to imply when performance artists will tend to strongly embrace the present, yet most would have progressive sympathies or at least be highly non-conservative.

No, the performance artists you will support define imagination as NOW. It may feel good but the true seeker of truth doesn’t want to contaminate the place in the human psych which can experience NOW with self justifying imagination.

[Nick_A]

Atia

Or an answer exists, you just didn't find it. What is this impossible contradiction? The impossible contradiction is the needs of the depth of the heart being opposed by our life in the World

Simone Weil wrote: Draft for a Statement of Human Obligation

Profession of Faith

There is a reality outside the world, that is to say, outside space and time, outside man's mental universe, outside any sphere whatsoever that is accessible to human faculties.

Corresponding to this reality, at the centre of the human heart, is the longing for an absolute good, a longing which is always there and is never appeased by any object in this world.

Another terrestrial manifestation of this reality lies in the absurd and insoluble contradictions which are always the terminus of human thought when it moves exclusively in this world.

Just as the reality of this world is the sole foundation of facts, so that other reality is the sole foundation of good.

That reality is the unique source of all the good that can exist in this world: that is to say, all beauty, all truth, all justice, all legitimacy, all order, and all human behaviour that is mindful of obligations………..

There is no objective conscience. Conscience is a part of human consciousness and some people have no conscience at all.

Conscience isn't about meaning. Meaning is also given, assigned by the human consciousness.

There is no such thing as a universal purpose.

Almost everything you write is baseless, refuted, made-up and disingenuous. But this way you can pretend to be better than those nasty progressives huh.

All this means is that you are yet to experience objective conscience and what it means to feel objective relative value as opposed to defining value by subjective secular standards. Doing so requires denying universal purpose. Is it your beliefs and denials that allow you to pretend you are better than me?

[Atla]

Atia

Or an answer exists, you just didn't find it. What is this impossible contradiction? The impossible contradiction is the needs of the depth of the heart being opposed by our life in the World

Simone Weil wrote: Draft for a Statement of Human Obligation

Ah that one. That contradiction is partially resolved by realizing that existence isn't a good thing (it's not a bad thing either though). We simply had false expectations.

But that of course doesn't resolve the contradiction subjectively for most people. Indeed existence for us humans remains mostly pain, sorrow, suffering. It's more bad than good.

From what I gather, Simone Weil couldn't handle this so much that she had a mental breakdown and invented a fantasy reality. That's a common reaction from weak people.

I see this claim that she had access to the good things, and they are in another world, to be highly immoral, malignant. Good exists in THIS world, it's just scarce. We shouldn't take it away from people, that's just making things even worse.

And once we agree that in this world, there is no good, we have killed even the possibility for actually making things better.

All this means is that you are yet to experience objective conscience and what it means to feel objective relative value as opposed to defining value by subjective secular standards. Doing so requires denying universal purpose. Is it your beliefs and denials that allow you to pretend you are better than me?

I know what it feels like experiencing "objective" things, in my early childhood a family member very much wanted to make a Christian out of me. Those are false experiences. Believing in made-up things doesn't give you moral highground.

Have you ever met a human that 100% lacks a conscience? By denying that they exist, we are helping evil in this world.

[Dontaskme]

you're the one who spread her nonsense like an unhinged fanatic on several forums,

The PNF is the only forum I post on...probably because it seems I'm allowed to be here unconditionally.

I did post at the ''skeptic forum'' for a while, but I'm not there anymore, it's too in your face ego based, dog eat dog mentality.


As for the other 5 forums I'm supposed to be posting at... would you be so kind as to show proof and evidence of this claim by providing genuine links to all 5 forums so we can all see that your not the one who is being the typical unhinged fanatical nonsensical clownshoe.

Making others appear to be a fool makes you the biggest fool of all.

.

[Atla]

The PNF is the only forum I post on...probably because it seems I'm allowed to be here unconditionally.

I did post at the ''skeptic forum'' for a while, but I'm not there anymore, it's too in your face ego based, dog eat dog mentality.

Add the nondualism forum you mentioned, to me that's several.

Some Skeptics have their own invention of nonsense, they deny having experiences. That's no good, but misrepresenting Eastern nondualism is also no good.

As for the other 5 forums I'm supposed to be posting at... would you be so kind as to show proof and evidence of this claim by providing genuine links to all 5 forums so we can all see that your not the one who is being the typical unhinged fanatical nonsensical clownshoe.

Making others appear to be a fool makes you the biggest fool of all.

Please quote where I wrote 5

[Dontaskme]

But that of course doesn't resolve the contradiction subjectively for most people. Indeed existence for us humans remains mostly pain, sorrow, suffering. It's more bad than good.

Embrace rather than resist, nothing Inside of You is truly negative, dark, or evil...don't hate..elevate.

From what I gather, Simone Weil couldn't handle this so much that she had a mental breakdown and invented a fantasy reality. That's a common reaction from weak people.

Only strong people breakdown, it's a sign of intelligence not weakness. It's a gift to be able to discern and to be able to break down that what doesn't feel right to come into alignment with what does. Not everyone is gifted the dark night of the soul. It is Life that evolves the awakening in some people, the person doesn't wake up, the person is awoken by life if it's meant to happen, and not one second before.

All Seedlings must overcome the darkness in which they are conceived...to come out of the darkness and into the light that has sourced the seed is awakening to source...the eternal sustainer of all life, inseparable from.

[Dontaskme]

Please quote where I wrote 5

You didn't.. I wrote that.

Now, please link the 5 other forums I'm supposed to be posting on?

I've already eliminated two of them for you, this one and the skeptic forum ..to make your job easier.

What and where are the other 5 forums..please show?

.

[Atla]

Embrace rather than resist, nothing Inside of You is truly negative, dark, or evil...don't hate..elevate.

Wishful, magical thinking. There are people with a complete lack of good and I've met them too. By denying that they exist, you help evil in this world.

Only strong people breakdown, it's a sign of intelligence not weakness. It's a gift to be able to discern and to be able to break down that what doesn't feel right to come into alignment with what does. Not everyone is gifted the dark night of the soul. It is Life that evolves the awakening in some people, the person doesn't wake up, the person is awoken by life if it's meant to happen, and not one second before.

All Seedlings must overcome the darkness in which they are conceived...to come out of the darkness and into the light that has sourced the seed is awakening to source...the eternal sustainer of all life, inseparable from.

Wishful, magical thinking. You seem to have had a mental breakdown and invented a fantasy reality. That's a common reaction from weak people.

[Atla]

Please quote where I wrote 5

You didn't.. I wrote that.

Now, please link the 5 other forums I'm supposed to be posting on?

I think you're really losing it

[Dontaskme]

"Now" does not seem so precious when one is tossing and turning in bed on a hot night, rather we are bother by our inability to let it die down.

And yet the ''Now'' does not struggle with you, it's all allowing, it does not resist or disallow, or struggle with you ...only the mind struggles. .real learning is about mastering yourself, to know You cannot serve two masters.

.

[Dontaskme]

Embrace rather than resist, nothing Inside of You is truly negative, dark, or evil...don't hate..elevate.

Wishful, magical thinking.

No, those are just thoughts, thoughts don't actually exist in the real world...they are imagination appearing real, while the real world is not imagined.

You are confused, I saw this in you from day 1 ..but good luck in seeing through the illusions of imagination verses the real.

Some people never grasp the Nondual concept no matter how much they try...but like I said, life evolves that awakening in people, only when it is meant to happen and not one second before...

.