The Weakness of the Progressive Mind

[Dontaskme]

I googled ''...Eternal Values ...'' ..just to see what is meant by eternal values.

Seems a pretty simple logical concept to me.

''Things with eternal value are, by definition, valuable forever. Our time on earth is very short, but what we do here will affect our condition in eternity. In that never-ending life, we will either be tormented in hell, or enjoying God's New Heaven and New Earth.''

Read more here ...https://www.compellingtruth.org/eternal-value.html

So in essence...
Hell is just your state of mind, it's how you treat yourself, animals, environment, what you eat, and of course how you treat others, same applies to heaven, that too is just your state of mind.

Only you are creating heaven or hell with how you think and what you believe.

Eternity is not what we think it is, it's not some prolonged period of time that never ends. It's this immediate aliveness that is here and now brimming with potential that's always readily available on tap ....but unless we are open to receive it, unless we are empty of past hurts and future longings we'll be out of balance with our true source and power.

It's what we do with ourselves now that really matters the most...if we are living with past hurts, we are carrying around dead negative energies that cloud the clear space of now. Same applies to wishing the now away in favour of better times ahead, this too is negative energy clouding the pure creative potential that is right here and now. Eternity is NOW...this is so obvious.

Only now are in we in alignment with source, only here now is where true values live. Only now do we have the power to become what ever we want to be. The universe has no choice but to mirror what we want, because what we put out there comes back to us. We only get what we give. We are the receivers of what we are given, and we only get what we give to ourselves.

Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

Even if physically you are not able to fulfil a wish you may have or a desire to do...your mind will be at peace, it will be in heaven because when you are in alignment with your true power and source ..there is no more suffering for you in this life.

Remember your experience in 3D is limited anyway..but the potential is carried through in your offspring and their offspring, what we leave for them is what really matters, we need to clean up after ourselves only, and not expect to leave our mess for those who come after us to deal with.

What sort of footprints do we want to leave behind during our 3D earthly experience?..this is our eternal value.

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[Dubious]

I googled ''...Eternal Values ...'' ..just to see what is meant by eternal values.

Seems a pretty simple logical concept to me.

''Things with eternal value are, by definition, valuable forever. Our time on earth is very short, but what we do here will affect our condition in eternity. In that never-ending life, we will either be tormented in hell, or enjoying God's New Heaven and New Earth.''

Read more here ...https://www.compellingtruth.org/eternal-value.html

So in essence...
Hell is just your state of mind, it's how you treat yourself, animals, environment, what you eat, and of course how you treat others, same applies to heaven, that too is just your state of mind.

Only you are creating heaven or hell with how you think and what you believe.

Eternity is not what we think it is, it's not some prolonged period of time that never ends. It's this immediate aliveness that is here and now brimming with potential that's always readily available on tap ....but unless we are open to receive it, unless we are empty of past hurts and future longings we'll be out of balance with our true source and power.

It's what we do with ourselves now that really matters the most...if we are living with past hurts, we are carrying around dead negative energies that cloud the clear space of now. Same applies to wishing the now away in favour of better times ahead, this too is negative energy clouding the pure creative potential that is right here and now. Eternity is NOW...this is so obvious.

Only now are in we in alignment with source, only here now is where true values live. Only now do we have the power to become what ever we want to be. The universe has no choice but to mirror what we want, because what we put out there comes back to us. We only get what we give. We are the receivers of what we are given, and we only get what we give to ourselves.

Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

Even if physically you are not able to fulfil a wish you may have or a desire to do...your mind will be at peace, it will be in heaven because when you are in alignment with your true power and source ..there is no more suffering for you in this life.

Remember your experience in 3D is limited anyway..but the potential is carried through in your offspring and their offspring, what we leave for them is what really matters, we need to clean up after ourselves only, and not expect to leave our mess for those who come after us to deal with.

What sort of footprints do we want to leave behind during our 3D earthly experience?..this is our eternal value.

This is an excellent post, eloquent and expressive! There’s not much I disagree with and those are minor. It’s surprisingly understandable! When you say “Eternity is now” that’s long been known to me even before I knew who Joseph Campbell was – who often made that point himself. Though I don’t believe in any “Eternal Values”, your summarizing sentence, “What sort of footprints…”, comes as close as I imagine an eternal value could be since this is actual and not some Platonic abstraction which can only be inferred. You likely won't agree with this conclusion, nevertheless, your post impressed me.

[Nick_A]

Atia asks

(Not saying it's necessarily correct, just that there is easily an alternative in science to some one-universe-spirit now.)

So where is the realm of eternal values?

Eternal values are within NOW. NOW is beyond the limits of creation bounded by time and space. The process of creation and the realm of science occurs within NOW. What is the scientific alternative to NOW?

[Dontaskme]

When you say “Eternity is now” that’s long been known to me even before I knew who Joseph Campbell was – who often made that point himself. Though I don’t believe in any “Eternal Values”, your summarizing sentence, “What sort of footprints…”, comes as close as I imagine an eternal value could be since this is actual and not some Platonic abstraction which can only be inferred. You likely won't agree with this conclusion, nevertheless, your post impressed me.

Thanks for your feedback, you're resonating with your own knowledge, knowledge is what we are, we don't own or possess it, we are it.

I hadn't heard of Joseph Campbell until I googled him and found this...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMfbbmWbEWU

I was like amazed he'd said that in the manner in which he did, with passion and with so much certainty in his voice, meaning it to be very obviously true. I agree with him,it's as if we instinctively know we are this living alive eternal now...which is just another concept for silent un-moving presence.

I have heard of a guy called Tom Campbell, and that's who I initially thought you were talking about when you mentioned Joseph Campbell ..but they are two different people.

Joseph Campbell...I've never even heard of until you mentioned him, so had no idea he'd said that about eternity being now...so now I'm interested in listening to what hes talking about.

Eternal Now is so obviously natural to me, when we look at the space ..space doesn't move or change, it's without edge or boarder, it's without beginning nor end...and that we are able to be aware of that space, be the living testimony that it exists as evidenced is the ultimate proof that everything that appears in that space cannot be, and never will be, ever separated from it ... life is eternal because it's regenerating itself constantly from one appearance to another...in THAT SPACE...and so the appearance of life, to the appearance of non-life (what we call death) is just transformation of energy from one form to another, nothing dies, because everything lives....we know life..we do not know death, no one knows death, death can only be life that needed to go into a sleep phase, nothing can be dead, it's just in a different state that's all, a transitional phase ....and all this appearance and disappearance, changing and re-arranging is taking place within it's OWN SELF...within space that always IS ever unchanged.

That space is where you are, it is who you are, and always will be, ..you never entered this place, so you cannot leave...it is YOU.... it's the field of information, and your brain is the receiver transmitter of the information projected back into the space, THE SPACE ACTING as a screen on which the image of you is seen as in your body. It's not that much different to how radios and tv's and computers work.

So to me, the field of information aka space is an integral part of who we are, and yet we have grown up to believe that space is insignificant, that it has nothing to do with who or what we are...but I have never believed that...I believe space is what the mind is..

Your body is your mind reflection. There is no separation between the two. Your mind is giving you the illusion that you have a body or are in a body when the truth is your in your mind.

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[Atla]

Eternal values are within NOW. NOW is beyond the limits of creation bounded by time and space. The process of creation and the realm of science occurs within NOW. What is the scientific alternative to NOW?

As far as I know, everything is within the eternal NOW, it's not possible not to be. But since this applies to everything, it has no special consequences.

So I can look around within the eternal NOW, and I can find spacetime. But I can't find this realm of eternal values.

Where is it, what is it? How do you know you aren't just making it up?

[Dontaskme]

As far as I know, everything is within the eternal NOW, it's not possible not to be. But since this applies to everything, it has no special consequences.

So I can look around within the eternal NOW, and I can find spacetime. But I can't find this realm of eternal values.

Where is it, what is it? How do you know you aren't just making it up?

That looking around is no thing looking around. It's not a person looking around, there is no individual person looking out of your eyes, there is no you, there is only looking.

Where is it?...it's here now.

What is it?..it's this here now.

It's no thing making you up, making everything up.

All knowledge is sourced from and within not-knowing unborn now appearing to itself as the known in time and space...one with the knowing.

Every concept, idea, thought, is eternal.

So what is it exactly..that you mean by saying

But I can't find this realm of eternal values.

?

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[Atla]

That looking around is no thing looking around. It's not a person looking around, there is no individual person looking out of your eyes, there is no you, there is only looking.

Where is it?...it's here now.

What is it?..it's this here now.

It's no thing making you up, making everything up.

All knowledge is sourced from and within not-knowing unborn now appearing to itself as the known in time and space...one with the knowing.

Every concept, idea, thought, is eternal.

Aww you just broke your policy of never responding to me again.

Totally not what the topic is about either. There isn't the looking either. Nothing is being made up. There is no knowledge and there is no source. There is nothing appearing. There is no not-knowing and nothing is unborn.

See I can go further than you, and when everything collapses, we finally get out of this stupid half-baked nondualist stage. In the end mountains are mountains again, and I'm a fucking person looking around.

[Dontaskme]

That looking around is no thing looking around. It's not a person looking around, there is no individual person looking out of your eyes, there is no you, there is only looking.

Where is it?...it's here now.

What is it?..it's this here now.

It's no thing making you up, making everything up.

All knowledge is sourced from and within not-knowing unborn now appearing to itself as the known in time and space...one with the knowing.

Every concept, idea, thought, is eternal.

Aww you just broke your policy of never responding to me again.

Totally not what the topic is about either. There isn't the looking either. Nothing is being made up. There is no knowledge and there is no source. There is nothing appearing. There is no not-knowing and nothing is unborn.

See I can go further than you, and when everything collapses, we finally get out of this stupid half-baked nondualist stage. In the end mountains are mountains again, and I'm a fucking person looking around.

I'm not talking to you idiot, I'm responding to knowledge...not angry energy that is only interested in upmanships.

Yes, you are stating the obvious and preaching to the choir...yep, nonduality is defo the appearance of polarities...there's no way out of that one.

I've never denied that...but for some reason you seem to think I have...that's why discussing with you is a waste of time because you only believe what you want to believe about what I write which is never what I believe...so that makes you an idiot in my world...

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[Dontaskme]

Totally not what the topic is about either.

Yes it is because everything talked about is inclusive ..you moron.

What I think is wrong with you, is that you have at some point in your life looked very deeply into the nondual concept, and haven't quite grasped it fully, if you had, you would not be responding the way you do about it...it seems you only have a half-baked idea about it, and that's why my posts inflame you and make you angry...I don't see any other person on this forum ever speaking to me the way you have done...your replies to me have been full of despise and hatred...this is normal, I understand, I've been on the nondual circuit for a very long time. And I know the difference between those who know it fully and those who only half know it.

See I can go further than you, and when everything collapses, we finally get out of this stupid half-baked nondualist stage. In the end mountains are mountains again, and I'm a fucking person looking around.

You got that the wrong way round bye the way...it's dualistic thinking that's half-baked not nondual thinking....and that's exactly what Nicks topics are about ..they are about integrating...the two parts of us, to bring together and incorporate the two aspects of ourself into a whole self.

So quit your big cry baby attitude and get with the programme, stop detesting the nondual part of you, it is very unbecoming and petulant.

How are we to ever know truth from fiction without allowing the flow of intergration to be part of the discussion, because to me it's a vital part that we should not ignore.

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[Nick_A]

Greta

You posit truth, beauty and the good as though they were as fundamental to our reality as the laws of physics. Where was the truth, beauty or the good in dense, hot plasma of the early universe? They seemingly existed only as potentials (now manifest) - but not as an actuality (unless there's a whole lot going on in plasma that we don't know about).

You lack an appreciation for a sense of scale. The Good as a form is a timeless eternal value within which all lower forms or ideas have their existence. It is the same relationship that fractions have with ONE. You are caught up with defending fractions as the ultimate reality. That is what the progressive mind does. You psychologically remained closed to the whole, the Good, that fractions exist within.

Truth is like that. Truth as an eternal value is the interaction of universal laws. That is what is true. Expressions of these interactions are interpreted into subjective values but truth as an eternal value is the interaction of universal laws.

Beauty as an eternal value is an indication of order produced by what is beyond our perceptions. You want to argue about what is and what is not beautiful while ignoring that beauty as an eternal value is just an indication.

It is the same with the sacred impulses of faith, love, and hope. The progressive mind argues over subjective animal interpretations of these impulses and remains closed to what they are as conscious eternal values.

You side with the progressive agenda which seeks to destroy awareness of these impulses in favor of arguing over abortion rights or other forms of "enlightened expediency." I am on the side of those who encourage awareness of eternal values and their source for the benefit of our "being". We have chosen our paths.

[Atla]

So in your fantasy world, Knowledge and Angry Energy fly into humans, or how does it work?

Btw I'm not actually angry at you, where did you get that idea? I don't hate you either. To do these things I think I would have to take you seriously first. Maybe you're projecting?

And I know the difference between those who know it fully and those who only half know it.

You don't know shit, and I mean that honestly.

You got that the wrong way round bye the way...it's dualistic thinking that's half-baked not nondual thinking...

Opposite of what I said. You don't know shit.

and that's exactly what Nicks topics are about ..

No they aren't

the two parts of us, to bring together and incorporate the two aspects of ourself into a whole self.

Calling it parts or aspects is pretty much misunderstanding nondualism.
Btw I'm the one telling you to accept the everyday dual, and you are the one refusing it.

How are we to ever know truth from fiction

That's what you are working against vehemently, as I explained several times. Maybe it would be better for the world if you would just retire?

[Nick_A]

Atia

So I can look around within the eternal NOW, and I can find spacetime. But I can't find this realm of eternal values.

Where is it, what is it? How do you know you aren't just making it up?

No. You are looking around during the process of existence and limiting yourself to what your senses reveal as they function within the process of existence. But the process of existence takes place within NOW and the eternal values which maintain existence are within NOW.. The only way you can know is through intuition and what Zen calls satori and Christianity calls gnosis. Without these experiences you will just go on arguing.

[Atla]

No. You are looking around during the process of existence and limiting yourself to what your senses reveal as they function within the process of existence. But the process of existence takes place within NOW and the eternal values which maintain existence are within NOW.. The only way you can know is through intuition and what Zen calls satori and Christianity calls gnosis. Without these experiences you will just go on arguing.

That's self-refuting. Our intuition is also bound by the process of existence, so we can't know these "eternal values" through it.
There is also zero sign that "eternal values" would maintain existence.

Zen satori isn't like this either, don't compare it to Christian gnosis.

[commonsense]

Nick_A

You wrote, "According to you then, the value of the process is determined by the conclusion."

According to a careful reading of what I wrote, it is the truthfulness or falsehood of the conclusion that matters, not the content per se of the conclusion.

You also wrote. "Is there any reason that the process is meaningless because it may lead to different conclusions?"

What is the answer you have in mind?

[Dontaskme]

So in your fantasy world, Knowledge and Angry Energy fly into humans, or how does it work?

Btw I'm not actually angry at you, where did you get that idea? I don't hate you either. To do these things I think I would have to take you seriously first. Maybe you're projecting?

And I know the difference between those who know it fully and those who only half know it.

You don't know shit, and I mean that honestly.

You got that the wrong way round bye the way...it's dualistic thinking that's half-baked not nondual thinking...

Opposite of what I said. You don't know shit.

and that's exactly what Nicks topics are about ..

No they aren't

the two parts of us, to bring together and incorporate the two aspects of ourself into a whole self.

Calling it parts or aspects is pretty much misunderstanding nondualism.
Btw I'm the one telling you to accept the everyday dual, and you are the one refusing it.

How are we to ever know truth from fiction

That's what you are working against vehemently, as I explained several times. Maybe it would be better for the world if you would just retire?

It's just discussion.

Stop talking yourself so seriously.

It's just discussion.

It's just discussion..what part of that does not compute with you dude?

When we talk to the posters, which you do, we are all projecting...nothing wrong with that...it's what happens when we confuse real knowledge with false claimed knowledge.

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