Virgin Birth Myths

[Nick_A]

Nick wrote:

Greta, As a secularist you must believe that the living machine on earth which eats itself and reproduces is a result of accident. Even though the laws of chance make this impossible, it will not cause you to doubt this belief.

Deism claim.
It's no "accident".But a design does not imply a Designer.

It is far more reasonable that organic life as a whole exists as an idea, as a potential within a higher cosmos. Cosmic need created the necessity for this conscious potential to manifest as phenomenon or this living machine serving its cosmic purpose.

Theism claim.
Maybe. However the higher cosmos/cosmic need has caused both evil and good.

You believe in an impossible accident and I believe in conscious intent. You believe an impossible accident is more reasonable than conscious intent within a conscious universe. If you seriously believe in this impossible accident I’ve got a bridge for sale here in Brooklyn you will want to buy.

Intelligent creation claim.Again, the creation is no "accident" however this fact does not imply a Designer.

If organic life can manifest on earth by conscious intent, is there any reason why, when lawful conditions allow, an evolved soul cannot without the need for the sex act be born from a woman whose purity allows it?

Miraculous intervention claim. Why would a cosmic Designer select some miraculous interventions and not others? For instance why would He impregnate the Holy Virgin and not save some small child from cancer?

You seem to believe that the real person is their personality. You seem unaware of the inner Man. Jesus' life and sacrifice served the needs of the inner Man. They are always confused. Even Peter confused them. Science can serve the needs of the outer man but cannot serve the needs of the inner man. For that something else is needed and just the thought of it repulses the secular world which glorifies our personality.

Matthew 16:

21 From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.

22 Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “Never, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to you!”

23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

[Lacewing]

People are precious... I see all life as precious.

I see that too. From your perspective, WHEN does that negate what people DO? What determines when you are willing to turn a blind eye to another's dishonesty in order to take on a role of acting noble and caring for them when people are truthfully calling them on their shit? Do you think that helps them? What do you think that shows support for?

I have seen Nick attack Greta's character when she wasn't around, just as I've seen him attack everyone's character regardless of what they are saying. That's his consistently demonstrated agenda... and it operates by dishonest means. People (including myself) have reached out to him, but his agenda means more to him than anyone. So you think a good response is to pet him and tell him he's precious?

Your solidarity for "the misunderstood" is laughable. Serving your agenda... is serving his agenda... and both roll merrily along down a delusional path of denial. I honestly want the best for each of you. I ALSO think there's value (and I find it entertaining) to identify twisted projections and denials of the truth that are being thrown around. We are very creative and deceptive beings, yes? How do each of us recognize and choose to dance with that?

[Dontaskme]

So you think a good response is to pet him and tell him he's precious?

No one is precious meaning everything is precious.

Stop attacking the mirror, it doesn't give a fuck..it can take it all...it is all.

Your solidarity for "the misunderstood" is laughable. Serving your agenda... is serving his agenda... and both roll merrily along down a delusional path of denial. I honestly want the best for each of you. I ALSO think there's value (and I find it entertaining) to identify twisted projections and denials of the truth that are being thrown around. We are very creative and deceptive beings, yes? How do each of us recognize and choose to dance with that?

[Lacewing]

...

I understand. Admitting to your inconsistency doesn't serve you.

I just thought you might be willing to reach beyond that -- choosing truth over reaction.

[Nick_A]

Lacewing

I have seen Nick attack Greta's character when she wasn't around, just as I've seen him attack everyone's character regardless of what they are saying. That's his consistently demonstrated agenda... and it operates by dishonest means. People (including myself) have reached out to him, but his agenda means more to him than anyone. So you think a good response is to pet him and tell him he's precious?

I think you are sincerely unaware of why you re wrong. All you read me write is support of Plato's cave allegory. This is basic philosophy. You read it as an attack on secularism but really I am supporting the value of becoming aware of and awakening to the blindness of the human condition which secularism blindly supports to retain its self esteem.

[Dontaskme]

I honestly want the best for each of you.

Always be your at your utmost best when complaining.

Misery loves company, it loves complaining, it's what misery likes to do, if misery runs out of things to complain about, it invents new ones.



The personality a.k.a the misery self.

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[Dontaskme]

I just thought you might be willing to reach beyond that -- choosing truth over reaction.

Stop reacting then.

You can't can you, you already said earlier that you are not interested in my posts.

But here you are again, you just can't help yourself can you, misery loves company.

There are only reactions in life...no one ever preformed an action.

Enjoy your self if you dare face it...it doesn't stop until you stop...it's like making love to a 300lb gorilla..it's not over until it's over...

.

[Belinda]

Nick posted:

Belinda

Miraculous intervention claim. Why would a cosmic Designer select some miraculous interventions and not others? For instance why would He impregnate the Holy Virgin and not save some small child from cancer?

Nick

You seem to believe that the real person is their personality. You seem unaware of the inner Man. Jesus' life and sacrifice served the needs of the inner Man. They are always confused. Even Peter confused them. Science can serve the needs of the outer man but cannot serve the needs of the inner man. For that something else is needed and just the thought of it repulses the secular world which glorifies our personality.

Matthew 16:
21 From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.

But Jesus chose to sacrifice himself as the Lamb of God. Some small child dying of cancer did not choose to sacrifice himself. God chose to impregnate Mary, but chose not to save the child dying from cancer.

How does God select which miracles to perform? Ah yes, I remember now; God moves in mysterious ways which I cannot understand.

[Lacewing]

I think you are sincerely unaware of why you re wrong. All you read me write is support of Plato's cave allegory.

No, that is not "all" you write, Nick. You tell people what they are, what they think, what they believe, and what they want. Can you admit that you do that? Those are your projections, Nick, and you are wrong. Can you admit that you don't know other people in such detailed ways, and that you are applying a MODEL (from your own head) on top of them? Yet you continue doing this even when people tell you that your accusations are wrong. Do you agree that you do that? So, HOW are people wrong about what you are doing in regard to them?

[Lacewing]

Always be your at your utmost best when complaining.

Ah, so you're going to label my observations as "complaining". So that you can TELL ME to STOP complaining... as you love telling everyone to STOP doing one thing or another. That's your latest little reactive habit. Who are you to tell anyone to STOP doing anything? Of course you don't apply your own head babble (that you spew at everyone else) to yourself in these instances. Perhaps such protective dishonesty is why you are stroking Nick, despite the chasm of contradictions between your models. You are seeing connection where and when you want to, yes? Interesting how controlled that is, don't you think?

[Dontaskme]

I think you are sincerely unaware of why you re wrong. All you read me write is support of Plato's cave allegory.

No, that is not "all" you write, Nick. You tell people what they are, what they think, what they believe, and what they want. Can you admit that you do that? Those are your projections, Nick, and you are wrong. Can you admit that you don't know other people in such detailed ways, and that you are applying a MODEL (from your own head) on top of them? Yet you continue doing this even when people tell you that your accusations are wrong. Do you agree that you do that? So, HOW are people wrong about what you are doing in regard to them?

Nick, you cannot get through to a closed mind.

I for one Dontaskme, have never once thought those thoughts about you.... the ones LW has mentioned above..don't believe Nick..don't believe these paranoid deluded thoughts Nick...there not yours.

They hate your message Nick..but I love it, you are only saying out loud what other people only ever think about but are too afraid to say out loud for fear of what other people might think of them..you know the game they are playing... All these people are doing is thinking about how much they are hurting from this messenger for truth and justice, because truth tellers tell the truth, they do not BS around, but you are hurting others by disclosing what they don't want to hear...they don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves...and blame you for all the hurting...if they didn't believe any of it was true, they would not be hurting...but they are clearly hurting...it's pathetic.

.

[Lacewing]

No, that is not "all" you write, Nick. You tell people what they are, what they think, what they believe, and what they want. Can you admit that you do that? Those are your projections, Nick, and you are wrong. Can you admit that you don't know other people in such detailed ways, and that you are applying a MODEL (from your own head) on top of them? Yet you continue doing this even when people tell you that your accusations are wrong. Do you agree that you do that? So, HOW are people wrong about what you are doing in regard to them?

Nick, you cannot get through to a closed mind.

And you know what that is?

I for one Dontaskme, have never once thought those thoughts about you.... the ones LW has mentioned above..

Exactly which thoughts, DAM? This forum is FULL of Nick telling people what I described above. What do you think is not correctly represented above? Or could it be that you just want to disagree with everything I say?

don't believe Nick..don't believe these paranoid deluded thoughts Nick...there not yours.

His projections are written in his posts. What do you want him to not believe? Are you saying that the accusations he writes about individuals he doesn't know are NOT projections?

you are only saying out loud what other people only ever think about but are too afraid to say out loud

Oh please... grow up. Why are you acting so idiotic on Nick's behalf?

Yes, YOU and NICK are the only enlightened beings in this forum. Meanwhile... there is no "you" (as you have said).

Pick a theme and stick with it.

[Dontaskme]

But Jesus chose to sacrifice himself as the Lamb of God. Some small child dying of cancer did not choose to sacrifice himself. God chose to impregnate Mary, but chose not to save the child dying from cancer.

How does God select which miracles to perform? Ah yes, I remember now; God moves in mysterious ways which I cannot understand.

Oh god Nick these people are completely clueless as to what God means.

I think I have repeated the answers to Belinda's concerns here over a hundred times already, but it never sinks in. It's hopeless.


You, we, are wasting our time with these people.

[Dontaskme]

Yes, YOU and NICK are the only enlightened beings in this forum. Meanwhile... there is no "you" (as you have said).

When I discuss here, of course I will be in person mode,when engaging in forum discussion about metaphysical topics.. ...but my message is always of a nondual nature, something you have a hard time grasping otherwise you too would be in resonance, but you show no sign of resonance, all you do is resist resist and box with shadows.

No one was ever enlightened...I am simply resonating with Nicks ideas, I don't always deliver my ideas in quite the same way as Nick, but I do resonate with them.
We don't fight each other not because we are stroking each others egos...but because we are mature people who have faced and dealt with our inner demons, we understand them to be the cowardly shadows they are. And we are resonating with the discussion about the dark side of the human character.

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Never tell a kid to grow up...the child within is timeless ageless...it is never deformed by societal conditions that are artificially forcefully imposed upon it often against it's natural will to be free.

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[Lacewing]

...but my message is always of a nondual nature, something you have a hard time grasping otherwise you too would be in resonance, but you show no sign of resonance,

Because I don't perform the way you do?

I've already acknowledged that you and I see the same -- but our ways of expressing it are different. You don't seem to appreciate when I point out inconsistencies or how you interject "yourself". Nick doesn't appreciate it either. So, what do you think you're here for, if not to identify such things for greater clarity and mastery? If you really love yourself to the extent that you claim, then I would think that you could acknowledge and laugh about these things.

all you do is resist resist and box with shadows.

What am I resisting, DAM? And what are these shadows you imagine?

I am simply resonating with Nicks ideas,

I have too, at times. I don't support his dishonesty though.

When you are in your "person mode", do you believe there is honesty and dishonesty? If so, when does it matter to YOU? Are you able to see why it matters to other people?

we are mature people who have faced and dealt with our inner demons, we understand them to be the cowardly shadows they are.

And do you think you're both done? You both kind of come across that way, don't you?

And we are resonating with the discussion about the dark side of the human character.

Great! I can relate! As I've said, though, I think there is a bit more going on than that -- otherwise I see no reason for your polarized responses.

Never tell a kid to grow up...the child within is timeless ageless...

I don't usually say that -- it just seemed appropriate for the situation.

You and Nick have seemed to be taking a righteous stance against the world... and I'm wondering what this big, bad world is that you're taking a stance against, and why you might be righteous about it? How does that work?