Infanticide

[Dubious]

Dubious wrote

What you've never noticed once or given any credence to is that secularism by its very nature is intensely analytical and self-critical completely opposite to your insanely stupid eternal values that proceed from the hyperventilations of a diseased brain; such, if successful, cause more misery than revelation. What has no flexibility eventually breaks...a long established truth!

This could be a question worth discussing but you suffer the same affliction of the Greta mind which asserts: "When it doubt blame Trump." So it is up to those not so afflicted to discuss the relative merits of inductive bottom up reasoning with deductive top down reasoning in attempting to appreciate the human condition and human conscious potential within a universal context. Is there more to the question of infanticide than "yo momma sucks?" Who knows? But when in doubt, blame Trump and you will appear intelligent.

Stated clinically, impartially and without prejudice, the main problem here is the Nick_A mind; it's as tightly sealed as a can of vegetable soup with no noticeable difference in taste, texture or content a hundred years after its expiry date. You don't reason, you only quote your intellectual heroes as THE sacrosanct and sacred source of your self-proclaimed enlightenment. There are no sequiturs of investigation on your part, only complete acceptance like feeding code to a computer never inconvenienced or embarrassed by endless repetitions.

Nothing can be discussed with you except by those who willy-nilly agree with all your anti-secular bigotry. For whatever reason, you managed to hitch your mental apparatus to the four horses of your mental apocalypse - Simone, Einstein, Needleman, Plato. It begs the question, do your views really correlate with theirs or are you simply subrogating their philosophies to suit your own conclusions and delusions! Like smoking and drinking - and I've done plenty of both - that's when philosophy becomes dangerous to one's mental health.

It's within the secular realm that philosophies emerge or get fertilized as consequence of all the heterogeneous forces and discords that exist within it. Secularism can be discordant and go to extremes but it also possesses the means of neutralizing excess in which reason is forced to defend the rational when the latter is infringed. Within secularism the Great Beast is usually countered by another Great Beast that didn't agree with its predecessor ...and so it goes.

Also, an "eternal value" created by humans does not have to be good just because one decides to call it that! As with all values created by humans, many are not good and the worst in that class are your so-called "eternal" ones...those preconditioned by some presumed ultra-human authority likewise created by humans. Such terms become counterfeit when employed to sanction theistic, political or intellectual goals with a credence beyond our normal limits to define.

In effect, your ideology, like a virus, has quarantined itself against any "foreign" influences which attempt to penetrate your pristine assumptions starting with Plato's cave. Your mind works on the assumption that one absolute deserves another; The simple inclusion of "Eternal Values" into a statement will make it immune to further argument; don't blaspheme the sacred! Those infected with such values cannot properly be debated with so why bother discussing any of it! Nothing becomes of nothing as Lear kindly pointed out...or is all that nonsense just a ploy to be noticed with all your attention-seeking posts?

...but you suffer the same affliction of the Greta mind which asserts: "When it doubt blame Trump."
But when in doubt, blame Trump and you will appear intelligent

As mentioned, getting into a serious debate with you is truly impossible! Where do all these pieces that don't fit come from! Where did I mention Trump!? What's he got to do with it?? I can't recall having mentioned him for a long time on any subject - sorry if that sounds like a Jeff Sessions statement! - though I'm reasonably certain if I did, it probably wasn't favorable.

As for the "Greta mind", we seldom communicate but I'll state unequivocally, I wouldn't trade her mind for a baker's dozen of yours even if DAM offered herself as incentive into the bargain.

[Greta]

Let it go. Just let it go. Let yourself, and others, be human. It's the only way you will find any peace or happiness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk

Cartoon characters taught me everything I didn't know.

Always Be Yourself the Real Fictional Character.

Face yourself, it's all YOU.

Yes, we are all part of larger things that are logically part of a totality.

Yup, you can learn plenty from cartoons. I am ADHD and had trouble reading long texts as a child but I loved cartoons and comics. Mum was always wondering where I learned certain words because I rarely read books. The words often came from the villains in comics; bad guys were almost always intellectuals:

Bad guy: Ahahaha, now I have lured you into my impenetrable lair, you lamentable, pusillanimous ignoramus.
Good guy: Oh yeah? Jus' you wait, pal!

[Greta]

It's within the secular realm that philosophies emerge or get fertilized as consequence of all the heterogeneous forces and discords that exist within it. Secularism can be discordant and go to extremes but it also possesses the means of neutralizing excess in which reason is forced to defend the rational when the latter is infringed. Within secularism the Great Beast is usually countered by another Great Beast that didn't agree with its predecessor ...and so it goes.

Also, an "eternal value" created by humans does not have to be good just because one decides to call it that! As with all values created by humans, many are not good and the worst in that class are your so-called "eternal" ones...those preconditioned by some presumed ultra-human authority likewise created by humans. Such terms become counterfeit when employed to sanction theistic, political or intellectual goals with a credence beyond our normal limits to define.

Thank you. That is eloquently expressed, and I long ago lost motivation and energy to use Nick as anything but a rhetorical whetting stone. Great point about neutralising solipsist excesses.

I worry that I will regret these head-butting sessions on my deathbed for not being gentler and more accepting that people such as Nick will always speak cruelly and unkindly about others. Ideally one just lets it go, but I guess there is always the sense that these persistent unfair attacks on certain people and groups should not go unchallenged. A dirty job but ...

On the plus side, in terms of karma, the conversations themselves appear to be their own punishment

[Dontaskme]

Let it go. Just let it go. Let yourself, and others, be human. It's the only way you will find any peace or happiness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk

Cartoon characters taught me everything I didn't know.

Always Be Yourself the Real Fictional Character.

Face yourself, it's all YOU.

Yes, we are all part of larger things that are logically part of a totality.

Yup, you can learn plenty from cartoons. I am ADHD and had trouble reading long texts as a child but I loved cartoons and comics. Mum was always wondering where I learned certain words because I rarely read books. The words often came from the villains in comics; bad guys were almost always intellectuals:

Bad guy: Ahahaha, now I have lured you into my impenetrable lair, you lamentable, pusillanimous ignoramus.
Good guy: Oh yeah? Jus' you wait, pal!

But cartoon characters are not real Greta....they can’t teach you anything.....the learner teacher aka a human is a fictional character...nothing is real...

The human has no more reality than does Cinderella’s biological father...you don’t exist Greta ...remember?....there is no original father aka God.....so how can you exist?

All knowledge was just a dream story.

[Dontaskme]

Let it go. Just let it go. Let yourself, and others, be human. It's the only way you will find any peace or happiness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk

Cartoon characters taught me everything I didn't know.

Always Be Yourself the Real Fictional Character.

Face yourself, it's all YOU.

Yes, we are all part of larger things that are logically part of a totality.

Yup, you can learn plenty from cartoons. I am ADHD and had trouble reading long texts as a child but I loved cartoons and comics. Mum was always wondering where I learned certain words because I rarely read books. The words often came from the villains in comics; bad guys were almost always intellectuals:

Bad guy: Ahahaha, now I have lured you into my impenetrable lair, you lamentable, pusillanimous ignoramus.
Good guy: Oh yeah? Jus' you wait, pal!

But cartoon characters are not real Greta....they can’t teach you anything.....the learner teacher aka a human is a fictional character...nothing is real...

The human has no more reality than does Cinderella’s biological father...you don’t exist Greta ...remember?....there is no original father aka God.....so how can you exist?

All knowledge was just a dream story.

[Dontaskme]

Stated clinically, impartially and without prejudice, the main problem here is the Nick_A mind; it's as tightly sealed as a can of vegetable soup with no noticeable difference in taste, texture or content a hundred years after its expiry date.

Nope, he's just someone with an open mind willing to think for himself...

I'm not siding with him or ganging up as Greta would bleat, just stating the obvious, just reporting my surround as I see with an open mind. He like every other person on this forum is just expressing his thoughts and having them opposed and ridiculed, or liked or approved or whatever arises to happen..nothing wrong with any of it, it's the nature of the beast that is the human mind to be a dick head...life evolved that silliness into it's dynamic...it's just that some of the characters like and prefer one part of the dream more than the other parts rather than embrace both dark and lights sides of the dream, other characters are more open to looking through both sides of the telescope, they listen to others and then make up their own minds about what is of real value and what is fake trash...albeit illusory dream story, so nothing actually matters...we're all going to die one day and the sun is going to explode..this was all a dream...until the next dream when you will have absolutely no memory of any other dream having ever taken place, you will be put to sleep again and begin again with a clear blank slate...just so the war can start all over again...NOTHING CHANGES.

You don't reason, you only quote your intellectual heroes as THE sacrosanct and sacred source of your self-proclaimed enlightenment. There are no sequiturs of investigation on your part, only complete acceptance like feeding code to a computer never inconvenienced or embarrassed by endless repetitions.

Yep, all human fictional characters repeat the same old stuff handed down to them from those who came before, and then re-package that knowledge as if it was suddenly brand new as if it was they're own material that they thought of....this is what's really going on with knowledge...I mean where else does knowledge come from ? lets be honest with ourselves here>? we're just parroting away and believing we are actually saying something very clever.

Nothing can be discussed with you except by those who willy-nilly agree with all your anti-secular bigotry. For whatever reason, you managed to hitch your mental apparatus to the four horses of your mental apocalypse - Simone, Einstein, Needleman, Plato. It begs the question, do your views really correlate with theirs or are you simply subrogating their philosophies to suit your own conclusions and delusions!

All thinking is delusion ..life doesn't think in order to be...all thinking is fictional story overlay upon reality and has no reality other than the fiction no one believes in, it's all pure fantasy believed to be real. We are literally making it all up as we go along and then believing in our own delusions and our own home grown bullshit. Real reality does not tell stories, only humans tell stories, and they even tell stories about stories of humans that only exist as fictional stories...this is the reality of human, life for the human is a psyche ward, the loonies are taking over the asylum that is the human story.

Like smoking and drinking - and I've done plenty of both - that's when philosophy becomes dangerous to one's mental health.

The only dangerous thing here is the belief the mind is dangerous...it's a total fantasy and is not in the real world, saying the mental health of a person is dangerous is like saying a kitchen knife is dangerous when in fact a knife is completely harmless. Yes, a knife can cut when it interacts with another object but that's life doing that, not people.

It's within the secular realm that philosophies emerge or get fertilized as consequence of all the heterogeneous forces and discords that exist within it. Secularism can be discordant and go to extremes but it also possesses the means of neutralizing excess in which reason is forced to defend the rational when the latter is infringed. Within secularism the Great Beast is usually countered by another Great Beast that didn't agree with its predecessor ...and so it goes.

Agreeing / disagreeing...all normal activities of the human condition, all shadow boxing, nothing becomes of nothing.

Also, an "eternal value" created by humans does not have to be good just because one decides to call it that! As with all values created by humans, many are not good and the worst in that class are your so-called "eternal" ones...those preconditioned by some presumed ultra-human authority likewise created by humans. Such terms become counterfeit when employed to sanction theistic, political or intellectual goals with a credence beyond our normal limits to define.

No human being ever created anything...all fantasy...blah blah blah..

In effect, your ideology, like a virus, has quarantined itself against any "foreign" influences which attempt to penetrate your pristine assumptions starting with Plato's cave. Your mind works on the assumption that one absolute deserves another; The simple inclusion of "Eternal Values" into a statement will make it immune to further argument; don't blaspheme the sacred! Those infected with such values cannot properly be debated with so why bother discussing any of it! Nothing becomes of nothing as Lear kindly pointed out...or is all that nonsense just a ploy to be noticed with all your attention-seeking posts?

All thinking is attention seeking including the one accusing others of attentions seeking...no thinking then no seeking, no attention...seeking is all thought, all illusory nothing pretending, and believing something of value is being spoken and then seeking validation and approval...yep, we're all guilty of that game, any thing with the faculty to think is an attention seeker...whereas in the real world of real reality...none of this is happening...the faculty for thinking is the dis-ease of the human being when that human being believes it is the one thinking...thoughts belong to no one, they are tools for problem solving, not for creating them. Humans are addicted to thinking, especially problem creating...using the tool of thinking for the wrong purpose.
There's only one thing two people can debate over and that is all about winning their opponent over to their side of an argument...and it's like what the f?..as if that is ever going to happen...as we can see from the obviousness of any forum discussion...no one ever wins...that's the whole point of debate, nothing more...it's only when two minds are open and willing enough to meet in the middle and accept both their dark and light characteristics and stop opposing them will any sense come out of the human character, albeit illusory.

As for the "Greta mind", we seldom communicate but I'll state unequivocally, I wouldn't trade her mind for a baker's dozen of yours even if DAM offered herself as incentive into the bargain.

That's because you only see division where there is none, and that's why your posts are just as silly as you accuse others of.

.

[Dontaskme]

Great point about neutralising solipsist excesses.

And just who exactly would be doing that..except the words?

Are you a word, or are you prior to words? what are you before you know you are you?

Do you ever think about that?

I worry that I will regret these head-butting sessions on my deathbed for not being gentler and more accepting that people such as Nick will always speak cruelly and unkindly about others.

Then you need to stop creating the idea that there are people who can speak cruelly and unkindly about others in your own head.... is it not okay for them to do that while it is okay for you to do it?
In that I mean, you too are creating the idea that this is happening by believing it is happening...do you not see how you are just projecting your beliefs onto other people? this is what the human mind is doing all the time...projecting the other into existence...it's all projection..pure illusion.

What you are is the projector...not what you are projecting. Don't project and see what happens...nothing happens to you, things only happen in the projection..in the movie...belief in the movie makes it feel real...but what you REALLY are is the blank screen on which the movie is playing....and you don't like that, it's too boring for you...so you identify with the movie/projection instead...it's much more fun for you...we all do it, not just you...but see that behind the movie is the pure blank screen of awareness always at peace and totally un-deterred by the movie...rest there for a while...if you can possibly find that place.

Ideally one just lets it go, but I guess there is always the sense that these persistent unfair attacks on certain people and groups should not go unchallenged. A dirty job but ...

Then stop getting down and dirty with the other pigs then if you don't like it, it takes two to tango....I know it's tempting to not want to engage IN mud baths, and quite honestly pigs do love a good rumble in the mud do they not? and why not? is this not allowed or something?

I wonder who is going to clean up all the mess we make when trying to have a discussion about human issues and their self imposed conditions...who's going to be the cleaner?..are we cleaning up after ourselves or are we just dumping our poop on others just to run away and look back from a distance laughing our ass off..?

On the plus side, in terms of karma, the conversations themselves appear to be their own punishment

Instant karma is dissolved in the moment it arises.. when one is willing to see through their own story telling BS...and rest in there natural state of pure awareness without an object.

You are self correcting, self healing...you have never suffered afflictions...experiencing does not suffer, you suffer your experiences.



.

[Greta]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk

Cartoon characters taught me everything I didn't know.

Always Be Yourself the Real Fictional Character.

Face yourself, it's all YOU.

Yes, we are all part of larger things that are logically part of a totality.

Yup, you can learn plenty from cartoons. I am ADHD and had trouble reading long texts as a child but I loved cartoons and comics. Mum was always wondering where I learned certain words because I rarely read books. The words often came from the villains in comics; bad guys were almost always intellectuals:

Bad guy: Ahahaha, now I have lured you into my impenetrable lair, you lamentable, pusillanimous ignoramus.
Good guy: Oh yeah? Jus' you wait, pal!

But cartoon characters are not real Greta....they can’t teach you anything.....the learner teacher aka a human is a fictional character...nothing is real...

The human has no more reality than does Cinderella’s biological father...you don’t exist Greta ...remember?....there is no original father aka God.....so how can you exist?

All knowledge was just a dream story.

Get real. Humans are not fictional. Fictions are fictional. Stop talking nonsense at me.

Those who say claim that knowledge has no value tend to - surprise, surprise - avoid doing the work needed to attain knowledge.

[Dontaskme]

Yes, we are all part of larger things that are logically part of a totality.

Now isn't this interesting..except we're not allowed to be cruel or unkind..even though this is all part of the totality.

Humans are the parasites of the universe, addicted to feeding off negative energies ..which are allowed to be incidentally just like any other parasite in existence, humans have no special purpose for being alive than that of a mosquito or a cockroach.

A parasite that realises he is part of an elephant's totality can ..with not too much of a leap.. begin to believe that he is actually the elephant.

But, and this is a big BUTT...That what appears as the parasite is That what appears as the elephant. Like a single diamond, totality has (perhaps) facets but definitely no parts that can either get it wrong or right.

That which is imagined, cannot imagine.

It is blissfully unaware of it's impending demise... as it is unaware of it's imagined existence.

Who imagines this?

[Dontaskme]

Those who say claim that knowledge has no value tend to - surprise, surprise - avoid doing the work needed to attain knowledge.

Nope, knowledge has no copyright, if it did, then that is the fiction...you have much work to work on..keep trying.

I'm only trying to help, heard of the cruel to be kind? ..but we only want to be the good guy I hear you cry.

How about the movie the good the bad and the ugly..each to their own.

YOU ARE KNOWLEDGE


You don't attain it..no more than you attained your body.

.

[Dontaskme]

What ever happened to ..........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0MK7qz13bU

Be free, be yourself...the REAL fictional character.

[Greta]

Yes, we are all part of larger things that are logically part of a totality.

Now isn't this interesting..except we're not allowed to be cruel or unkind..even though this is all part of the totality.

Humans are the parasites of the universe, addicted to feeding off negative energies ..which are allowed to be incidentally just like any other parasite in existence, humans have no special purpose for being alive than that of a mosquito or a cockroach.

A parasite that realises he is part of an elephant's totality can ..with not too much of a leap.. begin to believe that he is actually the elephant.

But, and this is a big BUTT...That what appears as the parasite is That what appears as the elephant. Like a single diamond, totality has (perhaps) facets but definitely no parts that can either get it wrong or right.

That which is imagined, cannot imagine.

It is blissfully unaware of it's impending demise... as it is unaware of it's imagined existence.

Who imagines this?

A poor posting, all supposition, no depth.

Humans are obviously not parasites. Parasites do not replace simpler structures with greater complexity and order.

[Dontaskme]

A poor posting, all supposition, no depth.

Humans are obviously not parasites. Parasites do not replace simpler structures with greater complexity and order.

There is no such thing as a human, a human is no thing human..ing. There is only consciousness Not-a-thing... and it's multiple levels of evolutionary progress, a constant work in progress as this unstoppable and un-returnable flux...going live in real time right now without a second or mistake or accident ..do you not read the amazing links Nick_A has provided explaining this phenomena...where are you getting your information from...a text book of past stale old ideas.... or straight from the sources mouth?

Your in story land again...I like to go beyond the story...to what's actually really going on.. happening here.

You can't see depth because you are a surface swimmer only. You live on the surface of the mind,(conceptual) not underneath it.(non-conceptual)

And you are too blind to see this obviousness.

[Dontaskme]

Get real. Humans are not fictional. Fictions are fictional. Stop talking nonsense at me.

But don't you see, I'm am getting real, that's why I talk like this. I'm not going to stop talking like this just to suit you or any one else, this is how I talk, I like to talk about what's real not lies.

If you have a position to defend which you do else you would not be in opposition to others peoples positions...all that happens then is your ego is never going to rest up until it is satisfied...when we have something to defend that's when we get into opposition mode...you can't just hold to yours without allowing opposition to hold to theirs without starting the whole blame game scenario off

..no claim, no blame...lets discuss ideas not people. Stop thinking people are attacking each other...lets look at each idea with wonder and surprise instead of constantly rolling out parroted worn out old clichés all the time.

The problem is, I have my way of seeing and you have your way of seeing, and I don't see anything wrong with that...it's all the same one dreaming difference where there is none..as long as we both hold onto our claimed positions.. then this tit for tat.. I'm right and your wrong blah blah blah...will continue and go on forever, absolutely going nowhere...welcome to the world of non-dual duality.

I'm just as bad, I'm not claiming to be the one who has all the answers..my intelligence is saying there are no answers to an unquestioned life...life is perfectly free in every moment..it does not need to ask a question to be what it is...everything else is just fantasy believed to be real including all my writing....it is the questioneer that is creating all the problems in life, not life itself.

Reality hasn't got a story about itself..that's the only real story...knowing that we are only ever consciousness expressing itself as a human...and that consciousness is going to succeed as a human species is when everyone sees through the illusion of other..aka separate self...no one gave you permission to be human, you made that up...when this is seen through...is when we start to evolve to greater depths of being...until then, we are doomed to fail...for anything that is done via the ego will ultimately fail...as we are already seeing in the world where there is separation...but then again, even this is story..it's all his story.

Be the change you want to see in the world, it all starts with you...you can do nothing about the state condition of the world..until another everyone else realises same...else it's business as usual...acted out by the usual suspects.

.

.

[Nick_A]

Good Morning DaM. The site was down for a while. Anyhow, you wrote

Any questions or concerns Nick? ..I''m open to your ideas about this...too.

First of all, do you distinguish between consciousness and “contents of consciousness?” Most seem to confuse the two. They believe that consciousness exists when they become conscious of things which I call contents of cosciousness. Yet for me consciousness and the contents of consciousness are different but related levels of reality.

As consciousness cannot experience it's own absence...what do you mean by absence?

Consciousness is never absent. It becomes covered over by imagination pertaining to contents of consciousness becoming dominant.

The commandments said thou shall not kill.
If you do kill...you are making your own moral laws.
But morality doesn’t belong to man.
Man depends on fixed eternal laws..else he is doomed to fail as a species..and the transference of energy will move on to the next vehicle for expression of eternal laws...what ever that maybe...who knows...watch this space.

Actually the commandment says not to murder in the heart rather than kill. We kill for many reasons including the need to eat and self defense to eat. But to murder in the heart is a very dangerous expression of pride which is a real spirit killer.

But you have raised an important question. We have been discussing God concepts which I agree are important. But if it is true that if we live in imagination, our God concepts will just become distorted. For example, realistically there can be no conflict between science and the essence of religion since they are both true. Yet conflict is intense. It seems that we do not know what we are or even what Man is. If we don’t, how can we have a realistic appreciation of the God/Man conscious connection? In the future would you be willing to participate in a thread examining Plato’s tripartite soul as described in Plato’s Chariot allegory? Obviously since the white horse is attracted to eternal values and the forms, it would be meaningless for the secularists. But if a few open to the idea participate, it could become meaningful for contemplating what we ARE and the struggle between the desires of our higher and lower natures.

Greta wrote: ↑Let it go. Just let it go. Let yourself, and others, be human. It's the only way you will find any peace or happiness.

This is the way of the Beast. Just go with the flow. I admire the black sheep. I remember learning of an old Armenian fable in which an evil magician had a herd of sheep which kept wandering away. This was a problem. How could he keep them together to provide wool and meat? He decided to hypnotize them into believing life was wonderful and just remain together for peace and happiness. It worked and he could use and kill the sheep at will. This old fable is analogous to the human condition and being asleep to the reality of the human condition. The black sheep recognizes its situation just as the person in Plato’s cave and seeks to learn what we ARE. Obviously if we don’t know what we ARE, how can we appreciate the human conscious potential or the objective God/Man connection?