Infanticide

[Dontaskme]

Are you open to the possibility that perhaps we are just creatures of reaction but yet have the potential for conscious action?

Yes, I absolutely believe that we have the potential for conscious action. And I also believe that the purpose of the universe was to awaken to it's infinite potential possibilities without fear of limitation, I've always believed that, I also believe that there is a shift that takes place where it is seen that we are eternal consciousness occupying bodies, not bodies occupying finite consciousness which seems to be more popular. Even our animals are just another different expression of the same eternal consciousness.

It seems to me that you believe Man is really God and these projections we call life are just imagination so in reality we are not doing anything.

In contrast I believe that Man on earth is a creature of REACTION with the potential to become a conscious being capable of ACTION and serving a conscious purpose..

IYO is there any way to verify the nature of Man- what we are?

Yeah I see what you mean....I don't mean that we are not the doers, I mean that doing is doing us prior to the belief that we become aware of our self as the doer..it's like God the non-mover is right behind us pulling our strings and we are the ones that move to his tune...but when we believe that we are pulling our own strings is when we get out of sync with real reality...I don't know if I said this to make any sense...I don't even know how to put this into words to be honest Nick..

I believe that there is here only consciousness being conscious of it's own life...like being lucid in it's own dream, it is constantly consciously directing it's own way the way it desires to do so...and it's totally limitless in everything it so desires to want to do or be..there is nothing stopping it from doing anything, just look at how everything is possible even the act of flying is possible for a bird...something that a human only dreams of..so anything is possible when you consciously desire it Nick...is that what you mean by conscious actions?

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[Nick_A]

Dontaskme

Yeah I see what you mean....I don't mean that we are not the doers, I mean that doing is doing us prior to the belief that we become aware of our self as the doer..it's like God the non-mover is right behind us pulling our strings and we are the ones that move to his tune...but when we believe that we are pulling our own strings is when we get out of sync with real reality...I don't know if I said this to make any sense...I don't even know how to put this into words to be honest Nick..

Why must conscious intent be a part of continuing life on earth? Consider mechanical life in the jungle where this magnificent living machine eats itself and reproduces serving a lawful cosmic purpose. Does the machine require conscious action to serve its purpose? No, it just reacts to nature's laws I believe that since Man on earth is a creature of reaction with the potential for conscious action we are really the Great Beast reacting to nature's laws as opposed to conscious influences. Once a person experiences that we are all part of a happening Plato described in his Cave allegory, they have a desire to leave this psychological prison. But we see that as we are we cannot. It is like sitting in a chair and trying to pull yourself up. The harder you try, the more your behind pushes down

Simone Weil lamented that education had become no more than "an instrument manipulated by teachers for manufacturing more teachers, who in their turn will manufacture more teachers." rather than a guide to getting out of the cave.

This IMO is our situation. We learn facts but are asleep to the value of acquiring a conscious human perspective. We need help from above to get out of the cave but how do we open to receive it?

[Nick_A]

Dontaskme

I believe that there is here only consciousness being conscious of it's own life...like being lucid in it's own dream, it is constantly consciously directing it's own way the way it desires to do so...and it's totally limitless in everything it so desires to want to do or be..there is nothing stopping it from doing anything, just look at how everything is possible even the act of flying is possible for a bird...something that a human only dreams of..so anything is possible when you consciously desire it Nick...is that what you mean by conscious actions?

This is what I don't understand. Why do so? Why direct its own way? It cannot be a need since needs are a characteristic of creatures existing within time and space. Dreaming by definition is an absence of consciousness. How could pure consciousness descend into dreams?

I remember once reading of a story where a seminary student is asked if there is anything God cannot do. The student said yes; he cannot beat the ace of trumps with the deuce without destroying the game. The universe is like this. It is a living machine of interconnected parts. Change one thing and you change everything. change must be in accordance with universal laws. Deny its laws and the universe can no longer serve its objective purpose.

[Dontaskme]

This is what I don't understand. Why do so? Why direct its own way? It cannot be a need since needs are a characteristic of creatures existing within time and space. Dreaming by definition is an absence of consciousness. How could pure consciousness descend into dreams?

Well it doesn't need to do anything, it is only by desire that it does anything at all...it can RIP for all eternity and never show up ...but it seems it desires to experience itself as a creative force and it wants to dance with that energy..it has the capacity to direct itself in which or what ever way it so desires ...Awareness aka god doesn't have a body, that's why it dreams one up.

God has no characteristics and no body, god is the empty space, the stage screen on which all the action takes place ...but in order to experience these actions requires a body, an action figure so to speak..but there is no one in that body except God...each character body is just a role being played, it's an experience and yes it's very real, it's a very real experience...it has to be a convincing play else what's the point in it... and since characters aka human bodies have to die, they cannot be the eternal dreamer that is unborn and undying...the characters are not the one having the experiences, they are that in which all the experiences are arising..which is awareness or god..which is just another word for consciousness...characters have no reality apart or separate from the dreamer, it is the dreamer that is real not the dream character, the character is just the temporal vehicle of expression, and every time a vehicle dies, it's the end of that experience the dreamer was having until another body pops aware for a new experience and this continues forever having as many experiences as possible, which seems to go on infinitely as long as there is the desire for a new experience...so every time a body dies, it's not the end of the dreamer, it's just the end of the dream experience of the dreamer...until the next body pops aware, and as each new body pops aware a new dream experience unfolds..and it's an ever unfolding reality within the same one dreamer of which all dreams are happening simultaneously ...blimey Nick you got me talking in ways I've never spoken of before...crikey! I really don't know how else to put this into words. You're probably not going to agree with this, and that's why I say we can only speak of this from our own unique perspectives...from our own direct experience the way we see it...all of us each have our own unique way of knowing God...which is only ever story appearing in us which is only ever consciousness There's not just one way of being able to put this into words... so it seems.

When I use the word ''dream'' don't take this as literal, remember, that God is spirit ..spirit is the non-material part of reality, so the concept dream is just a metaphor and synonymous with the concept spirit that's all, every thing is the same difference that's all...

I remember once reading of a story where a seminary student is asked if there is anything God cannot do. The student said yes; he cannot beat the ace of trumps with the deuce without destroying the game. The universe is like this. It is a living machine of interconnected parts. Change one thing and you change everything. change must be in accordance with universal laws. Deny its laws and the universe can no longer serve its objective purpose.

I concur.

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[Nick_A]

DaM

When I use the word ''dream'' don't take this as literal, remember, that God is spirit ..spirit is the non-material part of reality, so the concept dream is just a metaphor and synonymous with the concept spirit that's all, every thing is the same difference that's all...

It isn’t just you having difficulty. It is for me also. I’m used to the Greta mind which seeks to deny and attack rusulting in the unavoidable descent into secular superficiality.

First of all I understand the concept of I AM as a unified whole. Many believe that they are separate ideas but I consider them together as a whole. So for me, AM is the body of I or pure consciousness. AM exists within I as a unified whole.

The question to verify for me becomes what the body is. As I’ve written I believe AM is a universal living machine built on a hierarchy of conscious intention with one level of reality existing within the next
. We can only understand this with the knowledge of vibration. Most are closed to it but I can sense that you are not so it may at some point be worth discussing on a separate thread.

Imagine a color wheel with white light at the center We sense colors by becoming aware of lower rates of vibrations. White light and the perceptions of colors simultaneously exist just as the vibrations of God’s grace and love permeate the universe within its levels of reality.

It is the spirit that vibrates in the universal ether or the essence of matter. The rate of its vibrations determine universal quality or distance from the Source. This is difficult for anyone not familiar with esoteric contemplation. I’ve copied the beginning of an explanation of vibrations. From this perspective, the universe is not serving the desires of a deity but rather provides what is essential for the unity of I AM – No-thing and every-thing.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/kyb/kyb11.htm

"Nothing rests; everything moves; everything
vibrates."--The Kybalion.

The great Third Hermetic Principle--the Principle of Vibration--embodies the truth that Motion is manifest in everything in the Universe--that nothing is at rest--that everything moves, vibrates, and circles. This Hermetic Principle was recognized by some of the early Greek philosophers who embodied it in their systems. But, then, for centuries it was lost sight of by the thinkers outside of the Hermetic ranks. But in the Nineteenth Century physical science re-discovered the truth and the Twentieth Century scientific discoveries have added additional proof of the correctness and truth of this centuries-old Hermetic doctrine.
The Hermetic Teachings are that not only is everything in constant movement and vibration, but that the "differences" between the various manifestations of the universal power are due entirely to the varying rate and mode of vibrations. Not only this, but that even THE ALL, in itself, manifests a constant vibration of such an infinite degree of intensity and rapid motion that it may be practically considered as at rest, the teachers directing the attention of the students to the fact that even on the physical plane a rapidly moving object (such as a revolving wheel) seems to be at rest. The Teachings are to the effect that Spirit is at one end of the Pole of Vibration, the other Pole being certain extremely gross forms of Matter. Between these two poles are millions upon millions of different rates and modes of vibration.
Modern Science has proven that all that we call Matter and Energy are but "modes of vibratory motion," and some of the more advanced scientists are rapidly moving toward the positions of the occultists who hold that the phenomena of Mind are likewise modes of vibration or motion. Let us see what science has to say regarding the question of vibrations in matter and energy.
In the first place, science teaches that all matter manifests, in some degree, the vibrations arising from temperature or heat. Be an object cold or hot--both being but degrees of the same things--it manifests certain heat vibrations, and in that sense is in motion and vibration. Then all particles of Matter are in circular movement, from corpuscle to suns. The planets revolve around suns, and many of them turn on their axes. The suns move around greater central points, and these are believed to move around still greater, and so on, ad infinitum. The molecules of which the particular kinds of Matter are composed are in a state of constant vibration and movement around each other and against each other. The molecules are composed of Atoms, which, likewise, are in a state of constant movement and vibration. The atoms are composed of Corpuscles, sometimes called "electrons," "ions," etc., which also are in a state of rapid motion, revolving around each other, and which manifest a very rapid state and mode of vibration. And, so we see that all forms of Matter manifest Vibration, in accordance with the Hermetic Principle of Vibration.

[Nick_A]

Dubious wrote

What you've never noticed once or given any credence to is that secularism by its very nature is intensely analytical and self-critical completely opposite to your insanely stupid eternal values that proceed from the hyperventilations of a diseased brain; such, if successful, cause more misery than revelation. What has no flexibility eventually breaks...a long established truth!

This could be a question worth discussing but you suffer the same affliction of the Greta mind which asserts: "When it doubt blame Trump." So it is up to those not so afflicted to discuss the relative merits of inductive bottom up reasoning with deductive top down reasoning in attempting to appreciate the human condition and human conscious potential within a universal context. Is there more to the question of infanticide than "yo momma sucks?" Who knows? But when in doubt, blame Trump and you will appear intelligent.

[Dontaskme]

But why is the power of imagination so powerful? Could Simone be right that we lack the power of conscious attention necessary to experience reality rather than imagine it?

Idolatry comes from the fact that, while thirsting for absolute good, we do not possess the power of supernatural attention and we have not the patience to allow it to develop (Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace 53)..

Escapism is the escape from the unpleasant experience of either the anticipated real or illusory. Yet freedom from the confines of the psychological human condition requires consciously experiencing the external world. It is too much to sacrifice which is why people submit to psychological slavery or escapism into imagination

I had to come back to this post Nick..it's so intelligently written.

It's funny how a good nights sleep clears away all the dross and we wake up to a refreshed capacity for new understanding, I really get what you are saying here now, and I totally 100% agree with how you've put this.

Also I really do like this Simone Weil woman..she's one cool cookie. I totally get her...didn't even know she existed until you quoted her.

Simone is right ..I know what she is saying now..the imagination is very powerful...she's talking about BELIEF the power to believe is indeed very powerful, the human mind when it identifies itself with a belief so strongly ..it will actually imagine that belief to exist literally.

However, Consciousness which is what everything IS...is not a belief...Consciousness IS without doubt or error. CONSCIOUSNESS IS NOT IMAGINED.

I'm really starting to understand your posts more and more Nick..thanks for being here.

ALSO, it is worth remembering that we are all at difference stages of awakening, so this information that is a golden nugget to me.. might mean jack shit to someone else.

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[Dontaskme]

First of all I understand the concept of I AM as a unified whole. Many believe that they are separate ideas but I consider them together as a whole. So for me, AM is the body of I or pure consciousness. AM exists within I as a unified whole.

Yes, I agree, well put.

I love The Kybalion knowledge as well...thanks for that. It's useful knowledge to put on a philosophy forum.

The question to verify for me becomes what the body is. As I’ve written I believe AM is a universal living machine built on a hierarchy of conscious intention with one level of reality existing within the next
. We can only understand this with the knowledge of vibration. Most are closed to it

I agree.

Tesla knew this as well didn't he?

I hear he died all alone in his pokey little dwelling, in the throes of poverty...such a genius who quietly and gracefully slipped away totally un recognised, totally un credited and totally ignored by science, but I doubt he cared one iota about that...he was his own master.

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[Dontaskme]

Let it go. Just let it go. Let yourself, and others, be human. It's the only way you will find any peace or happiness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk

Cartoon characters taught me everything I didn't know.

Always Be Yourself the Real Fictional Character.

Face yourself, it's all YOU.

[Dontaskme]

Take my supposed hatred for women for example.

Yeah but Nick if you're anything like me...I like real women the ones that know their own mind who play hard to get because they are not for sale, the one's who can honestly say I love you but I don't need you...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfzsGyDg_bI

[Dontaskme]

Does "making sense" mean anything to your

Please..don't ever try to make sense.

You can no more make sense than you can make yourself out of a bunch of chemicals.

No thing made you..so why are you concerned with wanting to make sense...that's just nonsense.

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[Dontaskme]

This is what I don't understand. Why do so? Why direct its own way? It cannot be a need since needs are a characteristic of creatures existing within time and space. Dreaming by definition is an absence of consciousness. How could pure consciousness descend into dreams?

You probably have a different way of seeing God than I do...I had to come back to this post Nick.

Pure consciousness is what our nightly dreams appear in..else how come we can remember our nightly dreams upon waking from them, the dreams happen in a consciousness that can also record and then report them back to itself...if there was no consciousness present during sleep no dreams would be possible?

That's what Advaita teaches..they say the waking reality that we believe to be real and not a dream...is appearing in the same consciousness that sees the nightly dreams..

Notice how the nightly dreams are seen in full colour..and clarity as are waking life...and yet a nightly dream is seen in pitch darkness.

It's just mind baffling ..but amazing..I call it magic...and don't need no magic mushrooms for this baby...there's not mush room in here for two...lol

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Any questions or concerns Nick? ..I''m open to your ideas about this...too.

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Dreaming by definition is an absence of consciousness.

As consciousness cannot experience it's own absence...what do you mean by absence?

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[Dubious]

Does "making sense" mean anything to your

Please..don't ever try to make sense.

You can no more make sense than you can make yourself out of a bunch of chemicals.

No thing made you..so why are you concerned with wanting to make sense...that's just nonsense

It's inspiring to know that you're taking you're own advise; not everyone is willing to experiment on themselves first!

[Dontaskme]

Nick said...should subjective societal laws be changed to allow a woman to kill her one week old baby since it lacks objective eternal value and is now just an inconvenience? If not, why not?

——

The commandments said thou shall not kill.
If you do kill...you are making your own moral laws.
But morality doesn’t belong to man.
Man depends on fixed eternal laws..else he is doomed to fail as a species..and the transference of energy will move on to the next vehicle for expression of eternal laws...what ever that maybe...who knows...watch this space.

As infinite eternal consciousness we are both the creators and destroyers of ourselves.

[Dontaskme]

Does "making sense" mean anything to your

It's inspiring to know that you're taking you're own advise; not everyone is willing to experiment on themselves first!

I AM the first and the last.