Prostitution and Eternal Values

[Dontaskme]

...
Have you seen your death? ..that's what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about someone else's death, I'm talking about your death...you will never know death. ...

Well obviously not as you'll be dead.

Find out who or where is the believer before making false truth statements about knowing what death is.

Are you claiming you know about death, if so your statement at the begining is false then? Otherwise of course it is trivially true that one cannot know what being dead is like as you're dead.

Who can know about death?

Find out who? who is the knower...can you locate the exact location of the knower of death... ?

All knowledge is illusory...you have to do you're nobody home work to understand what's being spoken about here.

If you refuse to self inquire you will miss the point.

You cannot KNOW SOMETHING...unless you have actually experienced it.

Death is not an experience.

You talk about death as if you personally know it, as if you've personally experienced it...stop talking BS

You cannot know you are dead as you've already said...so what makes you think you can know if someone else is dead...it's just a belief, it's not real.


HOW DO YOU KNOW SOMEONE ELSE IS DEAD IF YOU CANNOT KNOW YOU'RE OWN DEATH?

[SpheresOfBalance]

...
You do not even know if someone else has died...you would have to be there in that persons death to confirm it to be true...truth is you have no idea what death is...it's just an idea...it's a belief. ...

Sure we do, it's a body that is not breathing or moving and after a while is stone-cold, a dead parrot so to speak. Have you never seen or touched a dead body?

I second arising point, I've even seen the rot in the aftermath. I used to work at a cemetery as a kid, used to dig graves with a spade, either the earth moved in all the years, or one of the graves was miss marked, anyway her skull rolled out, then I ran for the hills until the adult that I was working for assured me her head was back in her wooden coffin where it belonged. The smell, oh that smell. Rot!! The body returning from whence it came, not a pleasurable experience to witness. I can guarantee you that she wasn't going to tell me how beautiful the day was. That's all I needed to know. My many pets that I've buried over the years, another testament to my understanding at least a portion of death. Personally I prefer to smell the flowers than pushing them to the surface, but in death at least I take some comfort in that. So I'll not be embalmed, so that the food I provide to the flowers and trees is not tainted with mankind’s fears. My consciousness that you falsely believe is eternal out of your fear of ending, shall most probably end such that it shall be as before I began. Anyone that says otherwise I believe to be full of shite, as I, like they, began as they did, there was nothing before that I can recollect and there shall probably be nothing after that I'll sense either. Such proof there seems to be! Anything more from the likes of Dontaskme is most probably just their fear and denial talking. To be expected from mere mortals.

[Dontaskme]

...
You do not even know if someone else has died...you would have to be there in that persons death to confirm it to be true...truth is you have no idea what death is...it's just an idea...it's a belief. ...

Sure we do, it's a body that is not breathing or moving and after a while is stone-cold, a dead parrot so to speak. Have you never seen or touched a dead body?

I second arising point, I've even seen the rot in the aftermath. I used to work at a cemetery as a kid, used to dig graves with a spade, either the earth moved in all the years, or one of the graves was miss marked, anyway her skull rolled out, then I ran for the hills until the adult that I was working for assured me her head was back in her wooden coffin where it belonged. The smell, oh that smell. Rot!! The body returning from whence it came, not a pleasurable experience to witness. I can guarantee you that she wasn't going to tell me how beautiful the day was. That's all I needed to know. My many pets that I've buried over the years, another testament to my understanding at least a portion of death. Personally I prefer to smell the flowers than pushing them to the surface, but in death at least I take some comfort in that. So I'll not be embalmed, so that the food I provide to the flowers and trees is not tainted with mankind’s fears. My consciousness that you falsely believe is eternal out of your fear of ending, shall most probably end such that it shall be as before I began. Anyone that says otherwise I believe to be full of shite, as I, like they, began as they did, there was nothing before that I can recollect and there shall probably be nothing after that I'll sense either. Such proof there seems to be! Anything more from the likes of Dontaskme is most probably just their fear and denial talking. To be expected from mere mortals.

There is nobody inside a body.

Animation of the visible is invisible.

You are addicted to your story because that's all there is alive here.

There's no movie without the belief.

.

[Dontaskme]

Just to show you how much humans didn't know about themselves, let alone the universe. As it turns out, the word eternal is probably a falsehood unless of course entropy is a falsehood instead. But then it's currently up for grabs. Certainly, nothing we currently know of is infinite. So largely the word eternal is a falsehood until there's proof to the contrary. I'd say that it's highly improbable.

Eternal is a concept, human is a concept, all words are concepts...all knowledge is made from words aka concepts....knowledge informs illusory reality.

Illusory in the sense there is no word living life. Life lives itself, it's without words, words have been artificially superimposed upon life/reality by the mind...another illusion.

.

Drop all concepts...and what is left?

Drop all thought..and what is left?

[SpheresOfBalance]

Largely I see Dontaskme as a lunatic.

Such are all that believe in things they can't see, smell, hear, feel or taste, with their inborn sensors or those that can be manufactured with elements.

You know, invisible imaginative things like leprechauns, faeries, gods, the loch ness monster, bigfoot, trolls, elves, dwarves, flying dragons, etc. Oh it's fun to consider fantasy alright, but one has to come down out of the clouds of fantasy, to place there feet firmly on the ground if they ever want to hint at anything even slightly philosophical. All should remember that Philosophy is the father of all Science. One's conclusions absolutely must be based upon valid premises!! Else you're just a sensational, wannabe, dumb-ass!

Dontaskme, you have the floor, er, I mean, the clouds...

[Nick_A]

... Only the modern educated western mind will call it shit. Others not so educated can appreciate how the ancients understood the reality and importance of eternal values.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions ... ts_1.shtml

Atman
Atman means 'eternal self'. The atman refers to the real self beyond ego or false self. It is often referred to as 'spirit' or 'soul' and indicates our true self or essence which underlies our existence.
There are many interesting perspectives on the self in Hinduism ranging from the self as eternal servant of God to the self as being identified with God. The understanding of the self as eternal supports the idea of reincarnation in that the same eternal being can inhabit temporary bodies.
The idea of atman entails the idea of the self as a spiritual rather than material being and thus there is a strong dimension of Hinduism which emphasises detachment from the material world and promotes practices such as asceticism. Thus it could be said that in this world, a spiritual being, the atman, has a human experience rather than a human being having a spiritual experience.


Dharma
Dharma is an important term in Indian religions. In Hinduism it means 'duty', 'virtue', 'morality', even 'religion' and it refers to the power which upholds the universe and society. Hindus generally believe that dharma was revealed in the Vedas although a more common word there for 'universal law' or 'righteousness' is rita. Dharma is the power that maintains society, it makes the grass grow, the sun shine, and makes us moral people or rather gives humans the opportunity to act virtuously…………………………...

I think there're a few reasons why such stuff is pooh-poohed Nick_A, one, because it meets Socrates criteria of talking about what one doesn't know, two, it fails Kant's criteria in that it talks about what one cannot know, three, such 'eternal values' still appear to allow one to ignore the plight of one's fellows and four, there's bugger all evidence for any of it and we in the 'West' have discovered that, whilst fun, ontological logical metaphysics does not discover eternal truths whilst the natural philosophers appear to have at least found a way to talk about what's outside the cave with, if not total veracity, at least some benficial consequences for the rest of us.

So you believe that since we cannot know the dharma which produces eternal values scientifically, it doesn’t exist. This is the modern educated approach – the complete reliance on sensory or scientific proofs and the denial of all that opposes its dominance. It is what I call secular bigotry and what leads to spirit killing in the young.

We understand what it means to be bigoted against whites, blacks, Jews, Christians etc. Lots to be bigoted against. But somehow bigotry against the desire to understand with the whole of oneself is considered not only acceptable but necessary for indoctrination. Where modern secular bigotry teaches what to know, the old ways teach how to understand.. Where modern secular bigotry is concerned with learning new facts, the Ways are concerned with how to remember what has been forgotten or what Plato called anamnesis, and those like Einstein refer to as a product of intuition.

Nothing can be more offensive to the secular bigot than questioning the superiority of literal thinking and its reliance on the senses for revealing human meaning and purpose. Those who are not so bigoted know that human “understanding" requires not only intellectual verification but impartial emotional and sensory verification as well. In short, unless a person experiences the external world intellectually, with emotional detachment, and sensory discrimination simultaneously, they may know some facts but do not understand their significance. They cannot truly understand. That is what is so dangerous about the secular bigot. They deny the ability for intuition and anamnesis with the whole of oneself in favor of the interpretations of the literal mind. It easily results in lost souls starved for meaning and even spirit killing. It is the modern way that practices idolatry of the Great Beast. I’ll stick with the old fashioned way with awakening to eternal values and objective human meaning and purpose as its goal

The secular bigot only recognizes existence below Plato's divided line. It denies the process of existence above the line and is opposed to what enables a person to "remember". It is a shame but welcome to the human condition.

[SpheresOfBalance]

... Only the modern educated western mind will call it shit. Others not so educated can appreciate how the ancients understood the reality and importance of eternal values.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions ... ts_1.shtml

I think there're a few reasons why such stuff is pooh-poohed Nick_A, one, because it meets Socrates criteria of talking about what one doesn't know, two, it fails Kant's criteria in that it talks about what one cannot know, three, such 'eternal values' still appear to allow one to ignore the plight of one's fellows and four, there's bugger all evidence for any of it and we in the 'West' have discovered that, whilst fun, ontological logical metaphysics does not discover eternal truths whilst the natural philosophers appear to have at least found a way to talk about what's outside the cave with, if not total veracity, at least some benficial consequences for the rest of us.

So you believe that since we cannot know the dharma which produces eternal values scientifically, it doesn’t exist. This is the modern educated approach – the complete reliance on sensory or scientific proofs and the denial of all that opposes its dominance. It is what I call secular bigotry and what leads to spirit killing in the young.

We understand what it means to be bigoted against whites, blacks, Jews, Christians etc. Lots to be bigoted against. But somehow bigotry against the desire to understand with the whole of oneself is considered not only acceptable but necessary for indoctrination. Where modern secular bigotry teaches what to know, the old ways teach how to understand.. Where modern secular bigotry is concerned with learning new facts, the Ways are concerned with how to remember what has been forgotten or what Plato called anamnesis, and those like Einstein refer to as a product of intuition.

Nothing can be more offensive to the secular bigot than questioning the superiority of literal thinking and its reliance on the senses for revealing human meaning and purpose. Those who are not so bigoted know that human “understanding" requires not only intellectual verification but impartial emotional and sensory verification as well. In short, unless a person experiences the external world intellectually, with emotional detachment, and sensory discrimination simultaneously, they may know some facts but do not understand their significance. They cannot truly understand. That is what is so dangerous about the secular bigot. They deny the ability for intuition and anamnesis with the whole of oneself in favor of the interpretations of the literal mind. It easily results in lost souls starved for meaning and even spirit killing. It is the modern way that practices idolatry of the Great Beast. I’ll stick with the old fashioned way with awakening to eternal values and objective human meaning and purpose as its goal

The secular bigot only recognizes existence below Plato's divided line. It denies the process of existence above the line and is opposed to what enables a person to "remember". It is a shame but welcome to the human condition.

No one is bigoted here, NICK. We could care less what you believe in. As a matter of FACT, at least I will fight for your right to believe in any sort of faery tale you want to believe in. That's your right as a child of the cosmos. The star dust that we all are. But it's your kind that are harming children by force feeding them fantasies. Best for no one to suggest any sort of religion to children and let them choose for themselves what is and is not true for them and them alone.

Peace to you!

[Nick_A]

Spheresofbalance wrote:

No one is bigoted here, NICK. We could care less what you believe in. As a matter of FACT, at least I will fight for your right to believe in any sort of faery tale you want to believe in. That's your right as a child of the cosmos. The star dust that we all are. But it's your kind that are harming children by force feeding them fantasies. Best for no one to suggest any sort of religion to children and let them choose for themselves what is and is not true for them and them alone.

I will also fight for your right to believe in your secular fantasies. It can be fun in a bar atmosphere where we discuss the results of creating our own reality. But is it right to inflict them on the young? Why force feed them the idolatry of the Great Beast? All the snowflakes might buy it but what of those with a creative spiritual mind who intuitively know there is more to human meaning than secular indoctrination? Is killing the spirit through drugs and indoctrination while inviting them to prostitute themselves really the answer to solving the problem of the human need to experience objective human meaning and purpose?

[Belinda]

Dontaskme wrote:

The need to poo and piss would get you moving even if you tried not moving or doing, you can't, simply because it's not you doing anything, you are the doing, the done. Life moves as one unitary action...known as a re-act-ion...the play of opposites in progress...aka realtime.

I understand that pooing and pissing are good examples of "not you doing anything" or in other words reacting to necessity.I also understand that all actions including philosophising are "not doing anything" in other words reacting to necessity. I understand how "one unitary action " is necessity.

Where we part intellectual company is where we disagree that "one unitary action" is all that there is. Reality can be viewed as "one unitary action" or alternatively as myriad separate actions. Neither view is inconsistent with the other view ; each view is valid .
However the validity of the "one unitary action " view implies that there is no self who is not a necessary component of the one unitary action.In other words all that happens is the one unitary action. The one unitary action must also include whatever values can be claimed for prostitution without blame or evaluation.

[A_Seagull]

Given the choice of having dinner with a prostitute or a moralist, I would choose the prostitute every time.

I have no doubt the conversation would be more entertaining and honest.

Dinner with moralist:

Moralist: "So I told her that she still short changed me, because I gave her a twenty. But I said, one of the deadliest virtues is charity, so I will exercise my virtue, and leave her the extra change that she could do with as she wished."
Moralist (takes a bite of brisket.)
I: "This chicken is tough."
Moralist: "Yes, the cook was immoral in cooking it too long."
I: "And the potatoes are made of powder, not of real potatoes. The mashed potatoes."
Moralist: "Yes, and therefore the chef will burn in eternal hellfire for doing so and destroying the culinary experience of such vast huge large amount of people on a daily basis."
I: "Seen any good movies lately?"
Moralist: "Yes, I'd say. One of the best movies I've ever seen was a new one last week, "The Eternal Unsolvability Principle and Its Ramification in Goeddel's Eschenbau und Heimatsfruhe" You gotta go and see it."
I: "O...ooookay."

Prostitute: "I am hungry. Buy me some food."
I: "Okay, you want the chicken, or the garlic butter-soaked oversalted shrimp, semi-cooked for your salmonella-laden culinary pleasure?"
Prostitute: "Whichever is more expensive."
I: "So, I mean earm, ize, it's a nice day we are having, aren't we?"
Prostitute: "Waiter, there is a f****** fly in my soup."
Waiter: (Oxford Ph.D. in philosophy) Hm. (He gives himself to great thought. Finally:) Ma'm, it's impossible.
Prostitute: "What do you mean?"
Waiter: "A fly all by itself alone, can't be f******. That's copulation, and by definition, it needs two flies of opposite sexes. Maybe the Mademoiselle meant to say that the fly is self-engaged in autoerotica."
Prostitute: "Whatever. I fell asleep somewhere in the middle of your monologue there. Repeat?"
I: "Waiter, please bring another fly so the one in the soup is not so lonely."
Waiter: "Right away, sir. You want a blonde one, a brunette, or a read-head?"
I: "Read-head?"
Waiter: "Yes, a fly with a well-rounded reading list below her belt, from Faulkner to Boussireaivedaicissime, to Sommerset Maugham, to Tante Dante."
I: "Will we have time to eat the soup between sentences of the literary fly?"
Waiter: "if that's a concern, sir, I'll bring a deaf and mute one. Or if we out of those, can I bring the ma'm a dead and mute one?"
Prositute: "I need a hit. Anyone has any crack?"
I: "Buth Thelma! Not in public!?"
Prostitute: (in singing voice) "I'll go down on yo-o-ou first!"
I:

ROFL

[-1-]

ROFL

I am so glad you liked it, Seagull!

And I am even happier with the fact you let me know.

You see, the only currency a writer has are the people who read his or her writings and like what they read.

[Dontaskme]

Dontaskme wrote:

The need to poo and piss would get you moving even if you tried not moving or doing, you can't, simply because it's not you doing anything, you are the doing, the done. Life moves as one unitary action...known as a re-act-ion...the play of opposites in progress...aka realtime.

I understand that pooing and pissing are good examples of "not you doing anything" or in other words reacting to necessity.I also understand that all actions including philosophising are "not doing anything" in other words reacting to necessity. I understand how "one unitary action " is necessity.

Where we part intellectual company is where we disagree that "one unitary action" is all that there is. Reality can be viewed as "one unitary action" or alternatively as myriad separate actions. Neither view is inconsistent with the other view ; each view is valid .
However the validity of the "one unitary action " view implies that there is no self who is not a necessary component of the one unitary action.In other words all that happens is the one unitary action. The one unitary action must also include whatever values can be claimed for prostitution without blame or evaluation.

Yes, its all inclusive....including the fictional doer...actor.

Any claim of doership is fictional....illusory....but all inclusive of the one unitary action.

.

Like I’ve already said to Nick...it’s all no one doing...aka God

Why call it God?.....answer is ...no one is doing this....

There is an energetic tendency to identify with concepts as being reality because that’s all that is known...but the conceptual overlay is a fiction....the universe is totally a mental phenomenon...


Thanks for understanding Belinda...you really do appear to get this message.

.

[Belinda]

Dontaskme, what you name "the one unitary action" is what Spinoza named "from the aspect of the eternal".

The eternal is known not only to Eastern philosophy but also to Western philosophy, serious art, and some Western religion.

Reality is viewed not only from the aspect of the eternal which you do, but also from the aspect of the temporal and transient. The temporal and transient is the aspect under which we view ourselves as selves, and under which we evaluate good and evil.
I hope that you don't deceive yourself that you have the same vision as Nick, who is a literalist.

[Dontaskme]

Dontaskme, what you name "the one unitary action" is what Spinoza named "from the aspect of the eternal".

The eternal is known not only to Eastern philosophy but also to Western philosophy, serious art, and some Western religion.

Reality is viewed not only from the aspect of the eternal which you do, but also from the aspect of the temporal and transient. The temporal and transient is the aspect under which we view ourselves as selves, and under which we evaluate good and evil.
I hope that you don't deceive yourself that you have the same vision as Nick, who is a literalist.

...I understand Nicks vision...that’s all...but that’s as far as it goes....I have no interest in how His delivery is perceived...I tend to read between the lines most of the time that I spend here reading other people’s view points...not interested in ego massaging...

All human beings are precious really...as are all living creatures..

[Nick_A]

So what have we learned from this thread? We've learned that by definition the secularist cannot objectively prostitute themselves since they lack recognition of any eternal values to sell cheaply. They either reject objective values altogether and create their own reality or allow the Great Beast to determine their values. So either way since values change with the tides, there is nothing genuine to prostitute. This is why the secularist cannot discuss the concept of prostitution but must limit themselves to what society subjectively calls prostitutes.

We've also learned that the estimated 1.324 billion Hindus in India are all full of shit for taking eternal values seriously. One of the great benefits of a secular progressive education is that it can declare with credentials who is full of shit. Progress.