Race versus culture

[Seleucus]

No doubt signs of what is to come are already evident: http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism ... beta-male/

Dear oh dear, not the 'alpha'/'beta' male nonsense. There is no evidence that this primate works with this model, in fact it's more likely we're like the Bonobo's and should be under a Matriarchy.

I agree with Jordan Peterson and I remember Eric Berne wrote something similar, the brain counts how many rungs we ourselves stands from the top and the bottom of the hierarchy and directs hormone cascades accordingly, so our rank in the hierarchy is in our blood and our flesh; our mind and our whole body respond making at an organic level leaders, followers, or outcasts. Peterson has become so popular standing up to political correctness there's a million of his lectures online now, I hope this is one of the ones where he mentions this? Sorry if it's the wrong link, https://youtu.be/ILNRQ7ekGjo

No evidence? It's pretty extensive: https://www.surrey.ac.uk/politics/resea ... 0press.pdf

Are the Chinese and Orientals savages?

Some are, uncontacted tribes still up in Vietnam. But in the main no. Easterners are easterners, the Greeks understood their character just like Kipling did, just like we do today.

And I thought that you wish to bring back this savagery to 'White culture'.

While I concede that there may indeed have been highly enlightened societies in those tens of thousands of years of European history before writing: the Vedic homeland in the north, the Hyperboreans, Thule and all that, my suspicion is that most savages were brutal primitives, I expect Caesar's descriptions in the Gaelic wars are probably fair. The average IQ of humans at the time of the original dispersal, and going back into the million years since anatomical modernity was attained must have been something like 30 or 50, that would explain the eons Acheulean tools did not develop whatsoever.

There must therefore be a a difference between punishment based on totemism and oracy, and one based on law code and writing. That difference is probably systematicity. But too much orderliness is stultifying and crystallizes a society. Hence this is why Europeans control the world: Europe was never conquered by the Middle-Eastern Empire that started with Sargon and expanded for five-thousand years culminating in the Ottoman Caliphate. Thanks to Alexander, Europe was able to remain free and on the periphery of the Empire and pick and choose what ideas and technologies it wanted meanwhile remaining aloof from the life-force draining unfreedom of Middle-Eastern imperialism. Much the same can be said of Japan's relationship to imperial China, except that civilization arrived so many millennia later, no East Asian society can truly be a contender for hegemon. ...

Oh come now, China surely qualifies for such a title.

I've nothing more to add. Orientals lack initiative and creativity which is why they will never lead the World, too much empire, not enough barbarian in their character.

The West maintained the middle way between the totalizing control of Empire and the wild chaos of Barbarism. ...

Eh!? The Romans, the collapse back to Barbarism after they left?

Maybe the middle balance is a little deeper than the Romans, maybe it's the admixture of stable Middle-Eastern agriculturalists with the nomadic wildmen from the Pontic Steppes that is the White continence? (Isn't that blend of Central Asian nomads and Middle-Easterners also who the Abbasids were of the Islamic Golden Age?)

[Seleucus]

Northern africans are blacks, but not dumb.

North Africans are an earlier branch of the Caucasian family. They back-fed into Africa from northern India 20,000 or so years ago. We can call them Semitic peoples for the language they speak. This is an Algerian family, as you can see they are "White" and not "Black", you'll find these same sorts all the way from Lebanon right round to Morocco: https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3559/34 ... 642e_b.jpg

[GreatandWiseTrixie]

Northern africans are blacks, but not dumb.

North Africans are an earlier branch of the Caucasian family. They back-fed into Africa from northern India 20,000 or so years ago. We can call them Semitic peoples for the language they speak. This is an Algerian family, as you can see they are "White" and not "Black", you'll find these same sorts all the way from Lebanon right round to Morocco: https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3559/34 ... 642e_b.jpg

Yeah but what about the Saharan families? Like Timbuktu? Wikipedia says they were experts on trigonometry. I would say they are black, but not subSaharan, since they are actually IN the Saharan desert.

[GreatandWiseTrixie]

No doubt signs of what is to come are already evident: http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism ... beta-male/

Dear oh dear, not the 'alpha'/'beta' male nonsense. There is no evidence that this primate works with this model, in fact it's more likely we're like the Bonobo's and should be under a Matriarchy.

I agree with Jordan Peterson and I remember Eric Berne wrote something similar, the brain counts how many rungs we ourselves stands from the top and the bottom of the hierarchy and directs hormone cascades accordingly, so our rank in the hierarchy is in our blood and our flesh; our mind and our whole body respond making at an organic level leaders, followers, or outcasts.

There is some truth to this, science finds that when you win at board games you secrete Testosterone and when you lose, Estrogen.
However.
Homeless trannies do not seem particularly feminine or attractive to me, however Whore trannies do seem feminine, so Im unsure why homeless do not get the same estrogen boost.

[Seleucus]

Northern africans are blacks, but not dumb.

North Africans are an earlier branch of the Caucasian family. They back-fed into Africa from northern India 20,000 or so years ago. We can call them Semitic peoples for the language they speak. This is an Algerian family, as you can see they are "White" and not "Black", you'll find these same sorts all the way from Lebanon right round to Morocco: https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3559/34 ... 642e_b.jpg

Yeah but what about the Saharan families? Like Timbuktu? Wikipedia says they were experts on trigonometry. I would say they are black, but not subSaharan, since they are actually IN the Saharan desert.

Yeah, I see your point, it's on the southern edge of the Sahara. I'd call them Black because they spoke a Niger-Congo language and, this is a Mali family, round heads, flat noses and frizzy hair: https://plancanada.ca/image/planv4/hero ... ies_lg.jpg

[Belinda]

My little horse was grey, and was bought from a farmer in Scotland. Any coloured horse would not be as well trained, especially if it came from an address in England.

not

[OuterLimits]

Mensa is set up so that roughly 2% of modern Americans could gain access, if I recall correctly.

Looking at south-saharan IQs here, I wonder what the curve looks like - what % of them could gain access to Mensa?

https://static.iq-research.info/2015080 ... ountry.png

[GreatandWiseTrixie]

Mensa is set up so that roughly 2% of modern Americans could gain access, if I recall correctly.

Looking at south-saharan IQs here, I wonder what the curve looks like - what % of them could gain access to Mensa?

https://static.iq-research.info/2015080 ... ountry.png

Lol!

[Belinda]

Mensa tests are culture-neutral.

[Seleucus]

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A few comments on Fredrik Barth, Ethnic groups and boundaries...

Barth is not attacking traditional ideas of culture, for example "the traditional proposition that a race = a culture = a language" (p.11). He's suggesting instead that all the attention has been given to the society as a unit, and almost none to what is happening along the borders. Barth concludes that ethnicity is created and maintained against the alien other across the border and he goes on to sketch the rules by which cultural identity change can occur, some of which points are quite relevant to this discussion.

Race and culture are linked in that race is one of the elements of culture. This is obvious enough looking at the slanted eyes in Eastern art,

http://tarekfatah.com/wp-content/upload ... 23_001.jpg

or the flowing blonde locks in Western art,

https://media.overstockart.com/optimize ... 0x1000.jpg

How can you be a Westerner if you don't have white skin and fair hair and eyes?

Ethnic groups are metabolic units (p.13), it isn't uncommon for poly-ethnic symbiotic super-organisms to exist (p.16). Very normally these multi-ethnic societies organize themselves in a hierarchical order with groups in orders of subservience to one other (p.17).

If you fail as a White, you usually become a chav or White trash. But it can also happen that a loser White takes on a Black identity or becomes a Muslim. Conversely, a successful Muslim crosses over and becomes a White person (p. 22).

But there has to be a pathway. And a culture has to be amenable to identity shift. For example the Alans of lore integrated, there are no Alans today, but the Gypsies and Jews didn't. For example, perhaps, perhaps, Gypsies were bared from integrating into White society, meanwhile Jews resisted become European.

In America, the fact of Black blackness sets a very large bar to integration into White society. Marriage is probably the most powerful assimilation. But since all peoples are more racist than Whites,

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/ ... 34x274.jpg

very few minorities are open to interracial marriages even if Whites often are.

Muslims were always an invasive invader in every land, hence they have extremely powerful rules to maintain identity. You always know a Muslim immediately on meeting them. Muslims follow strict miscegenation laws and will almost never marry with outsiders unless the partner converts, Muslims will not share a table with others due to dietary taboos, do not wake and sleep at the same times as others, will not form business contracts with others, follow numerous rituals that make it difficult to work and live with them (prayer times, loud mosques, prohibition on eating openly during whole months), and follow a idiosyncratic Islamic fashion. It's reasonable to guess that Muslims will never integrate into Western countries just as they never did in the past either: Spain or the Balkans.

Pathways to integration must be open and not barred, for example affirmative action hiring, but if a an ethnicity doesn't want to integrate it little matters about open pathways.

Identity reassignment essentially always happens at the level of the individual, never at the level of the family or community (p.24). As far as immigration policy goes, family sponsorship and chain-migration work powerfully against the possibility of assimilation. Student, worker, and spousal immigration would be more likely to facilitate identity change.

Very importantly, as already been discussed in Kuran's "civilization trajectories" article, ethnicities are integrated units and not pick-and-choose and malleable. Barth tells us that "every new person becomes totally immersed in a ... pattern of relationships and expectations, ... the practice of the politics of one group or the assumption of the pattern of ecological adaptation ... and economy, entails the adoption also of its other parts and forms" p.24). So if someone begins to use a fork then democracy and women's rights and all the rest of it inevitably comes along. And if a UK woman persists in wearing a hijab, she will never integrate into British society and identify as a Briton.

There is a caveat which is that the material facts of a culture are less important than self identification and the labeling of others. So the differences between Bulgarians, Poles and Spanish might be overlooked if everyone agrees we are all White Westerners.

While cultures may slowly change, the boundaries between ethnicities persist for very long times, because we form and maintains our identity as not-the-other; some boundaries have been stable going back to before the Ice Age.

[Arising_uk]

No evidence? It's pretty extensive:

Nothing in there about the 'alpha'/'beta' mating model of some other species as applied to this primate. For sure there are social hierarchies but the Bonobo's have this too.

[Arising_uk]

...
very few minorities are open to interracial marriages even if Whites often are. ...

Can you understand the contradiction contained in these words?

[Seleucus]

No evidence? It's pretty extensive:

Nothing in there about the 'alpha'/'beta' mating model of some other species as applied to this primate. For sure there are social hierarchies but the Bonobo's have this too.

Hierarchy enhancing is roughly alpha which is roughly master morality. Hierarchy attenuating is roughly beta which is roughly slave morality.

Bonobos are a red herring I suppose? Or is there some topical point you are wanting to make?

[Seleucus]

...
very few minorities are open to interracial marriages even if Whites often are. ...

Can you understand the contradiction contained in these words?

White westerners are the least racist people in the world.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... e-you.html

As far as the topic of integration goes, marriage is a strong assimilator. But peoples who resist marriage with, say Britons, like Muslims and many coloreds, will therefore not have that pathway to identity shifting.

You are trying ignoratio elenchi? Is that that the right label for it, "fails nonetheless to address the issue in question"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi

[Belinda]

Seleucus's faux pas:

Bonobos are a red herring I suppose? Or is there some topical point you are wanting to make?

Fish are not mammals particularly bonobos who have cultures very like our own .

BTW 'cultures' ,in this connection, means what is learned and is conserved from one generation to the next by way of learning and social communication, but not conserved genetically.