Secular Intolerance

[fooloso4]

Harbal:

I think it's the attention you're getting that you appreciate. You've never had as much notice taken of you in your life, have you? It may not be the kind of attention you would have preferred but it's better than being ignored, isn't it.

This really is what it is all about (and of course the children). He puts a kick me sign on his back and hopes someone will kick him so that he can play the martyr and savior. Socrates, Jesus, and Saint Nick.

[Dubious]

Spec Savers.jpg

...and! proving what?

[Harbal]

He puts a kick me sign on his back and hopes someone will kick him so that he can play the martyr and savior.

Well I don't like the idea of giving him what he wants but I'm prepared to make the concession if it means I can give the little rat bag a good kicking.

[Nick_A]

Harbal:

I think it's the attention you're getting that you appreciate. You've never had as much notice taken of you in your life, have you? It may not be the kind of attention you would have preferred but it's better than being ignored, isn't it.

This really is what it is all about (and of course the children). He puts a kick me sign on his back and hopes someone will kick him so that he can play the martyr and savior. Socrates, Jesus, and Saint Nick.

"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." ~ Benjamin Franklin...

F4, you've definitely put in your share of effort

[Harbal]

"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." ~ Benjamin Franklin...

How did Benjamin Franklin get involved in all this?

[Nick_A]

Continuing with the Jacob Needleman interview

http://www.watkinsmagazine.com/what-is- ... -needleman

Q: You believe that atheists and believers alike have been visited by an inner experience that points to the existence of God. Can you describe or explain this experience, and why it is that so many don’t recognize it as significant?

A: Almost all of us have had experiences during our life when we sense with great clarity and power a tremendously heightened state of presence, of being there, an immediate and unforgettable sensation of I am. Perhaps it is a moment of great danger or even impending death, or a moment in a strange place or foreign country, or a moment of indescribable joy or a moment with no apparent cause at all when suddenly we are stopped within ourself and feel our sense of identity more intensely, calmly and purely than anything our everyday life has to offer. Such moments occur more frequently, perhaps, in childhood. These are the only times in one’s life that we actually remember; all the rest of our life being much more cloudy and merely inferred. But the great moments of pure presence are vividly etched in our memory as though they happened yesterday.
Our culture does not know how to interpret these moments, these experiences. Maybe they are called “peak experiences” or “mystic moments” or “breakthroughs”—we lack any precise words for them. In fact, they are, so to say, “messages” from our genuine Self as though saying to us: “I am You. Let me into your life.”
The work of cultivating such experiences until they become more accessible is part of the essential nature of genuine spiritual discipline. These are moments, at the very least, of approaching the experiential verification that there does exist something Higher within and perhaps also outside of ourselves. Moments at the very least of approaching what the religions call God.

Our culture doesn't know how to interpret these moments so naturally secular intolerance and spirit killing in general must do what they can to attribute these experiences to fantasy. New Age teachings will arise to make sure they are interpreted into fantasy,

We must learn to value them as indicating a conscious potential for us to touch something higher than ourselves that nourishes our being. We cannot take what the spirit killers say seriously. If you’ve had such experiences in which you experienced something greater than yourself they are of infinite value. We must respect them. Don’t let the intimidating attitudes of others make you think they are garbage.

[Greta]

You PMd me after the thread was not approved, accusing me of unfair and biased moderation. My reply prompted you to call me a liar.

That is abuse. Thus you were discarded like another any other trash. If you abuse any mods in that way you will achieve the same result. You reaped what you had sown. It's that simple.

By the way, as an experienced member you would normally not need a new thread approved but the mods before me had already placed you on probation for rudeness, with your warnings already in place before the final, decisive one.

This is simply not true. If you had tried to intimidate me as did F4 then I would have told you what to do with your threats against the essence of philosophy. I remember once posting a complaint to Scott about something humorous taken wrongly and we had a little laugh about it. I never had a problem with a mod.

If you think Scott is a fan of yours, you are mistaken. Do you really think you have had more contact with him about these things than his Admin? How naive are you??

The fact is that you called the forum Admin a liar (more than once) and were thus banned. Cause and effect. Simple.

You have the emotional "maturity" of a baby, and you are incapable of taking responsibility for your mistakes, or even admitting them. If you hope to be a spiritually developed person you'd better get on to that rather than blaming others for your own lack of reason, decency, empathy and self control.

[Nick_A]

You PMd me after the thread was not approved, accusing me of unfair and biased moderation. My reply prompted you to call me a liar.

That is abuse. Thus you were discarded like another any other trash. If you abuse any mods in that way you will achieve the same result. You reaped what you had sown. It's that simple.

By the way, as an experienced member you would normally not need a new thread approved but the mods before me had already placed you on probation for rudeness, with your warnings already in place before the final, decisive one.

This is simply not true. If you had tried to intimidate me as did F4 then I would have told you what to do with your threats against the essence of philosophy. I remember once posting a complaint to Scott about something humorous taken wrongly and we had a little laugh about it. I never had a problem with a mod.

If you think Scott is a fan of yours, you are mistaken. Do you really think you have had more contact with him about these things than his Admin? How naive are you??

The fact is that you called the forum Admin a liar (more than once) and were thus banned. Cause and effect. Simple.

You have the emotional "maturity" of a baby, and you are incapable of taking responsibility for your mistakes, or even admitting them. If you hope to be a spiritually developed person you'd better get on to that rather than blaming others for your own lack of reason, decency, empathy and self control.

Greta you are a liar. I called you that and openly admit it. I haven't even written to Scott about this. it isn't a matter of being a fan. I know I once inspired him to begin one on one conversations and just before this incident I was going to have an interview with a member of the AWS as to what Simone Weil has meant to the world. When the time is right I will ask him if he really intends to support secular intolerance especially because of the harm it causes the young in the world. He has a nice Facebook page with pictures of his kids. Obviously he cares. But it is one thing to care for their physical bodies and their personalities but we also must care for their inner lives by respecting and encouraging their inner callings and not trying to crush them for the sake of glorifying the Great beast. If Scott wanted to try some ideas that would expose metaphysical repression for what it is I would of course support him. If he is only interested in the outer person and the shells of the young then of course I wouldn't bother. There are enough of those out there.

[Dubious]

Continuing with the Jacob Needleman interview

http://www.watkinsmagazine.com/what-is- ... -needleman

Q: You believe that atheists and believers alike have been visited by an inner experience that points to the existence of God. Can you describe or explain this experience, and why it is that so many don’t recognize it as significant?

A: Almost all of us have had experiences during our life when we sense with great clarity and power a tremendously heightened state of presence, of being there, an immediate and unforgettable sensation of I am. Perhaps it is a moment of great danger or even impending death, or a moment in a strange place or foreign country, or a moment of indescribable joy or a moment with no apparent cause at all when suddenly we are stopped within ourself and feel our sense of identity more intensely, calmly and purely than anything our everyday life has to offer. Such moments occur more frequently, perhaps, in childhood. These are the only times in one’s life that we actually remember; all the rest of our life being much more cloudy and merely inferred. But the great moments of pure presence are vividly etched in our memory as though they happened yesterday.
Our culture does not know how to interpret these moments, these experiences. Maybe they are called “peak experiences” or “mystic moments” or “breakthroughs”—we lack any precise words for them. In fact, they are, so to say, “messages” from our genuine Self as though saying to us: “I am You. Let me into your life.”
The work of cultivating such experiences until they become more accessible is part of the essential nature of genuine spiritual discipline. These are moments, at the very least, of approaching the experiential verification that there does exist something Higher within and perhaps also outside of ourselves. Moments at the very least of approaching what the religions call God.

There is nothing to disagree with here. Such episodes have reference to existence only and not to any "extra" man-made designations of sacred or profane, theistic or secular. Such experiences are immediate, intense and correspondingly rare branding them into permanent memories; as Needleman points out, they can happen any time to anyone. Yet your own claustrophobic views make a complete mess of what people like him are saying.

Ever read Poe's Cask of Amontillado? By analogy what Montresor did to Fortunato is what you're doing to your mind. Hopefully you can remove the bricks one-by-one yourself...eventually since nothing external seems to work.

[Nick_A]

Continuing with the Jacob Needleman interview

http://www.watkinsmagazine.com/what-is- ... -needleman

Q: You believe that atheists and believers alike have been visited by an inner experience that points to the existence of God. Can you describe or explain this experience, and why it is that so many don’t recognize it as significant?

A: Almost all of us have had experiences during our life when we sense with great clarity and power a tremendously heightened state of presence, of being there, an immediate and unforgettable sensation of I am. Perhaps it is a moment of great danger or even impending death, or a moment in a strange place or foreign country, or a moment of indescribable joy or a moment with no apparent cause at all when suddenly we are stopped within ourself and feel our sense of identity more intensely, calmly and purely than anything our everyday life has to offer. Such moments occur more frequently, perhaps, in childhood. These are the only times in one’s life that we actually remember; all the rest of our life being much more cloudy and merely inferred. But the great moments of pure presence are vividly etched in our memory as though they happened yesterday.
Our culture does not know how to interpret these moments, these experiences. Maybe they are called “peak experiences” or “mystic moments” or “breakthroughs”—we lack any precise words for them. In fact, they are, so to say, “messages” from our genuine Self as though saying to us: “I am You. Let me into your life.”
The work of cultivating such experiences until they become more accessible is part of the essential nature of genuine spiritual discipline. These are moments, at the very least, of approaching the experiential verification that there does exist something Higher within and perhaps also outside of ourselves. Moments at the very least of approaching what the religions call God.

There is nothing to disagree with here. Such episodes have reference to existence only and not to any "extra" man-made designations of sacred or profane, theistic or secular. Such experiences are immediate, intense and correspondingly rare branding them into permanent memories; as Needleman points out, they can happen any time to anyone. Yet your own claustrophobic views make a complete mess of what people like him are saying.

Ever read Poe's Cask of Amontillado? By analogy what Montresor did to Fortunato is what you're doing to your mind. Hopefully you can remove the bricks one-by-one yourself...eventually since nothing external seems to work.

I have said over and over that secular intolerance resulting in metaphysical repression closes the psychological opening necessary to experience and respect these experiences. How in any way does this oppose the important points Prof. Needleman is introducing?

[Greta]

Greta you are a liar. I called you that and openly admit it.

You admission makes clear that I was telling the truth about what happened.

You called me a liar and you were banned. End of story. Take responsibility for your own recklessness, if you can.

[Nick_A]

Greta you are a liar. I called you that and openly admit it.

You admission makes clear that I was telling the truth about what happened.

You called me a liar and you were banned. End of story. Take responsibility for your own recklessness, if you can.

No. I called you a liar now and openly admit it. I don't know what you lied about on Philosophy Forums and if you did and i called you out on it I won't take cheap attempts at intimidation out of you any more than i would take them from F4. The value of philosophy is too important to sacrifice it in fear of secular bias. If you are a liar, you are a liar. Nothing can be more clear.

[Dubious]

Continuing with the Jacob Needleman interview

http://www.watkinsmagazine.com/what-is- ... -needleman

Q: You believe that atheists and believers alike have been visited by an inner experience that points to the existence of God. Can you describe or explain this experience, and why it is that so many don’t recognize it as significant?

A: Almost all of us have had experiences during our life when we sense with great clarity and power a tremendously heightened state of presence, of being there, an immediate and unforgettable sensation of I am. Perhaps it is a moment of great danger or even impending death, or a moment in a strange place or foreign country, or a moment of indescribable joy or a moment with no apparent cause at all when suddenly we are stopped within ourself and feel our sense of identity more intensely, calmly and purely than anything our everyday life has to offer. Such moments occur more frequently, perhaps, in childhood. These are the only times in one’s life that we actually remember; all the rest of our life being much more cloudy and merely inferred. But the great moments of pure presence are vividly etched in our memory as though they happened yesterday.
Our culture does not know how to interpret these moments, these experiences. Maybe they are called “peak experiences” or “mystic moments” or “breakthroughs”—we lack any precise words for them. In fact, they are, so to say, “messages” from our genuine Self as though saying to us: “I am You. Let me into your life.”
The work of cultivating such experiences until they become more accessible is part of the essential nature of genuine spiritual discipline. These are moments, at the very least, of approaching the experiential verification that there does exist something Higher within and perhaps also outside of ourselves. Moments at the very least of approaching what the religions call God.

There is nothing to disagree with here. Such episodes have reference to existence only and not to any "extra" man-made designations of sacred or profane, theistic or secular. Such experiences are immediate, intense and correspondingly rare branding them into permanent memories; as Needleman points out, they can happen any time to anyone. Yet your own claustrophobic views make a complete mess of what people like him are saying.

Ever read Poe's Cask of Amontillado? By analogy what Montresor did to Fortunato is what you're doing to your mind. Hopefully you can remove the bricks one-by-one yourself...eventually since nothing external seems to work.

I have said over and over that secular intolerance resulting in metaphysical repression closes the psychological opening necessary to experience and respect these experiences. How in any way does this oppose the important points Prof. Needleman is introducing?

That's simple. The experience described by Needleman and many others cannot be repressed. It's not a decision on your part that by some means of "metaphysical repression", whatever that means, you decide not to have it.

What I find disgusting is that you attempt to imprison such experiences within your own mental dungeon and then attempt to make some kind of perverse dogma out of it. What does "metaphysical repression" mean anyways? Why would anyone want to repress, metaphysically or otherwise, such rare experiences of these other unworldly levels of reality?

I'm not ignorant of writings which describe these extraordinary temporary flights into "other realms" none of which mentions the secular as having any substance within the context of the experience. The word simply doesn't apply. You seemingly read so much on the subject yet somehow it all went infra-red once it reached your CPU. You're able to read the words but not comprehend its meaning and so you create your own completely impervious to others who may have understood the message better than you which includes, paradoxically enough, the very ones you actually read as given by your quotes.

[Greta]

Nick, your mental and emotional issues are not my problem. Your wrongful and petty slurs mean nothing because anyyone can see how unstable and toxic you are.

Take responsibility for your actions for once. You overstepped the mark and you were banned.

I do feel sorry for anyone locked in the kind of horrid maelstrom of hatred and resentment that clearly resides within you but, again, it's up to you to fix it up, not me. Your damage is neither my fault nor my problem. Don't be such a baby. Take responsibility, accept that you made a mistake, and move on.

[Belinda]

Harbal wrote to Nick:

I think it's the attention you're getting that you appreciate. You've never had as much notice taken of you in your life, have you? It may not be the kind of attention you would have preferred but it's better than being ignored, isn't it.

I can testify that it feels horrible to be ignored, and this mini-world the forum is a place in significant ways. Every social venue harbours dissidents or so I'd hope.
I endorse Greta's

Don't be such a baby. Take responsibility, accept that you made a mistake, and move on.

It could apply to me sometimes.

Nick wrote:

I have said over and over that secular intolerance resulting in metaphysical repression closes the psychological opening necessary to experience and respect these experiences. How in any way does this oppose the important points Prof. Needleman is introducing?

Nick , if you were Don Quixote one windmill giant would be named "Secular". You should say simply "intolerance". You well know that religious people , and people who self identify as 'spiritual' can be as intolerant as anyone else.

I doubt if anyone here does not believe that peak experiences happen.