The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

[ken]

When dontaskme defines what the mind actually is, which is being talked about here, then we can further discuss.

I define the mind as a thought ?

Okay great, thanks for the clarification. Could you please just use the word 'thought' from now on instead of 'mind'?

So, if the true Self IS the KNOWER of ALL things, the this Self can KNOW what Its Self IS. The Self will then be the KNOWER and the KNOWN, which will be easily proven is possible, when I am fully challenged and questioned about this.

Yes, the Self can know itself.

So, we now both do agree that the KNOWER can be known, right?

It's only a mystery because it's no mystery.

How can some thing be a mystery because it is no mystery?

Congrats Ken, you have reached the one step beyond place.

Would you like me to play you a tune to celebrate?

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No. Why did you ask that?

[Dontaskme]

I define the mind as a thought ?

Okay great, thanks for the clarification. Could you please just use the word 'thought' from now on instead of 'mind'?

Yes alright, it's all one and the same idea anyway.

So, we now both do agree that the KNOWER can be known, right?

Well, I agree, the knower can be known....but I like to put it this way. The knower can be known only because of the opposite. We are the knower that cannot be known. That is true Advaita talk.

It's only a mystery because it's no mystery.

How can some thing be a mystery because it is no mystery?

Again, this is because of opposites having to exist in the same moment. The sheer utterance of the words ''the self is not a mystery'' implies mystery exists, which it does in effect, I mean we do not know what is going to happen next, so in that context it does exist. The Self isn't a mystery because it's self-evident. Language being dual in it's very nature creates opposites where there are none in reality for reality is without boarder. If there was no language / knowledge, nothing at all would be known would it?
So here we have a situation where language is the creator of a knowing that was previously unknown.
Not that is didn't exist, it does exist, just that nothing was known about the existence. Words fixed that problem.

Would you like me to play you a tune to celebrate?

No. Why did you ask that?

No reason, just a playful quirky idea of mine, forget it, it was obviously not received in the joviality it was given.

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[Walker]

Most people here said that some things, including reality, is a mystery that can not be solved. I, on the other hand, said that ALL meaningful questions can be answered, thus all the supposed mysteries can be solved, and by the way already have been.

Here's three:

Where Do We Come From?
What Are We?
Where Are We Going?

Answers?

[surreptitious57]

How was this supposedly an excellent thread

Dontaskme and ken have agreed on some things

[ken]

...

...

To both of you:

Do you think that what you routinely speak of uniquely matters or is somehow significant when compared with other perspectives, and if so, to who does it uniquely matter, and why/how is it significant?

What I routinely speak of is finding a way to reach unity, from which a truly peaceful and harmonious "world" could be created so that no person has to live in an abusive environment again. So, from the perspective of every person, and more importantly child, it matters. If there is a way that can create a truly peaceful life for everyone, then I would say it is significant. When compared with other perspectives? Then we will have to wait and see. But I had hoped I had made it totally clear by now that the ONLY WAY is the WAY that is accepted and agreed upon by EVERY one. Therefore, ALL perspectives are needed. Hopefully, you can comprehend this by now. ONLY with EVERY One's perspective can the true and right way, which leads to living in peace and harmony can be found and achieved.

To who does it uniquely matter? The answer is EVERY one. WHY/HOW is it significant? Is because It will bring about a "world" in which ALL truly once wanted to live in. That is in peace and harmony together as One.

Do you prefer to detach from and/or deny your "selves", as if to speak and claim from a perspective that is "beyond" or "broader" than "that"?

No, because there is NO 'beyond' or 'broader' than 'that'.

If so, who creates these definitions and boundaries?

There is NO boundary nor boundaries.

Also, if I recall correctly was it you who was previously mentioning about you having peeked behind the curtain and seeing what was there, as though there was an "outside", a "beyond", or "another dimension"? I ask this, not alleging any thing. I just ask from a truly open viewpoint. If that was not you, then My mistake. If it was you, then may be you could explain who created the definition of that boundary?

Do you see yourself as a "knower" more than a creator -- and is knowing more real and important than creating?

As individual people we ALL each know some things, and, we ALL each create some things.

But if we ALL worked together as One, then the sum of ALL of that unique each knowledge is ALL-known-KNOWLEDGE, and, working together as One We can create every thing that We truly want.

Knowing and Creating go together hand-in-hand.

To Me, when you ask these types of questions you seem to have some sort of prejudiced view, as though you are thinking that I am writing from some ulterior motive, from some kind of 'better than' attitude, or from some thing else. The reason you question the way you do only you know, and if you would like to share what that reason is, then you will. If you do not, then that is fine also.

I would just like it known that to Me NO one, and I will repeat NO one, is better nor less than another, nor does one know more than another in any superior sense. ALL people know different things. If a person happens to find and discover some new knowledge that benefits the rest of humanity forever more, like the earth revolves around the sun, or that E=MC2, then that is NOT because that person is better than any other person is any way whatsoever. The truth, in fact, and contrary to popular belief, is no person is even more intelligent than another. Human being just use intelligence differently. Also, HOW and WHY some human beings come to gain new knowledge before others is just perfectly normal and understandable. There is NO better any where regarding this.

[surreptitious57]

Once again to Me you are just trying to turn the focus away from what you said

Even though I am truly sorry for my behaviour in this thread and have said so too

[ken]

I define the mind as a thought ?

Okay great, thanks for the clarification. Could you please just use the word 'thought' from now on instead of 'mind'?

Yes alright, it's all one and the same idea anyway.

You mean to dontaskme it is the same idea anyway.

So, we now both do agree that the KNOWER can be known, right?

Well, I agree, the knower can be known....but I like to put it this way. The knower can be known only because of the opposite. We are the knower that cannot be known. That is true Advaita talk.

Again I will remind dontaskme that if dontaskme talked from dontaskme's perspective only, then I would be able to obtain clarification about what it is that dontaskme is talking about. But when dontaskme starts talking from the mouths of others, then it is near impossible to gain clarification from dontaskme.

One sentence dontaskme says, "The knower can be known ...." (only because of the opposite. But then immediate sentence after says, "We are the knower that cannot be known". I do NOT care who's talk it is.

How can the knower be known, but also, the knower can not be known? How can those two seemingly very different and contradicting propositions both be true?

It's only a mystery because it's no mystery.

How can some thing be a mystery because it is no mystery?

Again, this is because of opposites having to exist in the same moment. The sheer utterance of the words ''the self is not a mystery'' implies mystery exists, which it does in effect, I mean we do not know what is going to happen next, so in that context it does exist.

I have already stated that I DO KNOW what will happen next.

Did you just instantly and immediately dismiss what I said as NOT true? Because you certainly NEVER asked Me any clarifying questions nor did you challenge Me in any way about this.

Is the belief that your statement is absolutely true what is stopping you from seeing and/or dismissing what I wrote?

The Self isn't a mystery because it's self-evident.

If the Self is so self-evident to dontaskme, then what is the Self exactly?

Language being dual in it's very nature creates opposites where there are none in reality for reality is without boarder. If there was no language / knowledge, nothing at all would be known would it?
So here we have a situation where language is the creator of a knowing that was previously unknown.

What is dontaskme trying to say or explain here? And WHY are you trying to say and/or explain that?

Would you like me to play you a tune to celebrate?

No. Why did you ask that?

No reason, just a playful quirky idea of mine, forget it, it was obviously not received in the joviality it was given.

.

Okay, I am sure I will forget it soon enough.

[Dontaskme]

Again I will remind dontaskme that if dontaskme talked from dontaskme's perspective only, then I would be able to obtain clarification about what it is that dontaskme is talking about. But when dontaskme starts talking from the mouths of others, then it is near impossible to gain clarification from dontaskme.

Advaita talk is our talk. It's everyones talk. I was walking this talk from the age of 7...no one taught it to me, I hadn't read it in a book at that age, I already knew it.
When I did read it in a book later on in life, I kind of like recognised myself in it...and said oh look, someone else thinks my thoughts as well...whoopi dooo!!

What is dontaskme trying to say or explain here? And WHY are you trying to say and/or explain that?

Because you always ask for clarification on some of my ideas, and also some clarification to yours. And that's all I'm doing, is obeying orders.

[Dontaskme]

If the Self is so self-evident to dontaskme, then what is the Self exactly?

You've already asked me this millions of times which I've clarified millions of times in response.

I'm not saying it all over again.

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[ken]

Most people here said that some things, including reality, is a mystery that can not be solved. I, on the other hand, said that ALL meaningful questions can be answered, thus all the supposed mysteries can be solved, and by the way already have been.

Here's three:

Where Do We Come From?
What Are We?
Where Are We Going?
Answers?

Before I can answer these questions correctly I first will have to clarify from you what do you mean by 'we'? Are you looking from the very narrow-view field of human beings only, or is 'we' in regards to some thing else?

Where Do We Come From?
If you are looking from human beings only, then 'we' came "from" the same place that every thing else came "from". But first "from" is NOT the right word to use because 'from' implies coming from some thing else. Whereas the truth is every thing comes 'through'. 'We', human beings, came through evolution. EVERY thing is coming through a continual process of evolution. There was no start, so 'we', human beings, are always coming.

What Are We?
Again, if by 'we' you mean 'human beings', then 'human beings' are made up of two things; a visible part, and an invisible part. There is the physical human body that can be seen with the eyes, this is the 'human' part of 'human being', and, there is the invisible thoughts and internal feelings (or emotions) that can not be seen with the eyes, this is the 'being' part of 'human being'.

If, however, by 'we' you mean 'person' or 'people', then 'a person' is just the unique and individual set of thoughts, and emotions, with-in a human body, and, 'people' is the thoughts, and emotions, with-in a certain number of human bodies. But, if by 'we' you mean some thing else, then you will have to clarify first.

Where Are We Going?
If by 'we' you mean 'human beings', then we are not really going any where because there is only HERE. This Universe is ALL-THERE-IS. 'We', human beings, continue to evolve and so will evolve into some thing. What that thing is actually, is depended solely upon if human beings want to become truly open and intelligent beings, and thus be able to recognize and see what IS true and right, or if they want to remain like how they are now, that is to remain assuming and believing beings.

[Dontaskme]

How can the knower be known, but also, the knower can not be known? How can those two seemingly very different and contradicting propositions both be true?

Do you understand the law of opposites?

If you did you wouldn't be asking me. Why are you asking me now, I thought you said this is all no mystery? where are your answers NOW?

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[surreptitious57]

here we have a situation where language is the creator of a knowing that was previously unknown

Thought came before language and thought could lead to a knowing that was previously unknown
But it could not be passed onto those who did not know without language so that is important too

[ken]

How was this supposedly an excellent thread

Dontaskme and ken have agreed on some things

If this is sincere, then I will have to apologize profusely. I allowed things within Me to misinterpret what you wrote and read it from a completely wrong perception. I read it as though you were saying it was a shame that you had to explain things. I just read again what you wrote and see that you meant that it was a shame that I had to explain things. Again, if this is what you meant, then I apologize for completely misreading what you wrote.

[Dontaskme]

here we have a situation where language is the creator of a knowing that was previously unknown

Thought came before language and thought could lead to a knowing that was previously unknown
But it could not be passed onto those who did not know without language so that is important too

Thought morphed into language.. no language could have been possible without thought...I call thought the imagination...I draw upon my imagination, although knowledge is limited, imagination isn't and it's more important than knowledge, paraphrasing Einstein.
I agree with your response.


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[surreptitious57]

how many other members of the forum part from ken and Dontaskme will actually bother reading what they have written

people want to engage then they will If they do not then does it really matter

It might matter to someone who wants all human beings to be completely open and free and live in perfect harmony with
each other for as long as human beings carry on existing but if no one of that mindset exists then it does not matter at all