Secular Intolerance

[Greta]

You, Greta, and F4 only want to argue which by definition prevents experience.

You are amongst the most argumentative human beings I have ever encountered in my entire life!

For years I tried to get through to you - to just talk about all this stuff without arguments and nonsense - and you could not do it. I always liked some of the weird shit you talked about and felt that, if you tweaked out the resentment and bullshit, there'd be some inspiring concepts going on.

Once or twice we even managed decent conversations but as soon as someone else would arrive and disagree with you, you'd leave me high and dry so you could fight. You may be surprised (and delighted) to know how much it pissed me off at the time to see you keep dropping the ball. I was almost as annoyed with the clowns who baited and distracted you.

All I want are good D&Ms about the nature of reality. It should not be a fight. It can just be a matter of each individual sharing their impressions of what reality seems to be like from their individual perspective.

We all have different environments, relationships and experiences and surely have something to teach each other but when we start claiming that our way is the only right way for everyone, well, that's simply not true. We are all different and to some extent will thrive on different foods, experiences and relationships. There is no "one size fits all" panacea for the human condition (death is hardly a panacea).

PS. I assume you missed the Vonnegut reference.

You are amongst the most argumentative human beings I have ever encountered in my entire life!

Of course you define argumentative as anyone questioning the supremacy of secularism.

Q.E.D.

[Nick_A]

Jacob Needleman describes the problem of metaphysical repression. The spirit killing negativity of secular intolerance has been demonstrated on this thread which is just a small example of what takes place in modern indoctrination for some reason called education. My question is how concerned people can offer the alternatives to this secular blindness that the young are looking for? Prof. Needleman offers the idea of philosophical friends. In this day and age when secular intolerance is so dominant, it won’t be easy to admit the questions of the heart in public. The young have to find each other. To make matters worse those interested have to avoid the secular experts who will only wish to turn philosophical friends into the idolatry of the Great Beast. It is a necessary challenge but if these efforts can open minds and hearts while preventing a few premature spiritual deaths, it will be worth it

http://www.watkinsmagazine.com/what-is- ... -needleman

Q: How does our present confusion about the concept of God reflect a widespread psychological or spiritual starvation? How would you guide someone who is confused about the concept of God?

A: Every human being is born with an intrinsic yearning to understand, to contact and, eventually, to serve something higher in ourselves and in the universe. Plato calls this yearning eros. It defines us as human beings—even more than our biological nature, our social conditioning or our ordinary reasoning capacity. Our modern world-view tragically misperceives and wrongly defines what it is to be human. We are conditioned by our society to believe happiness comes from pleasure, or from getting things or power over people or money or fame or even health and survival. None of these sometimes very good things can bring ultimate meaning to our lives. We are born to be deeply conscious, inwardly free and deeply capable of love. The longing for these things is the definition of what it means to be human. At the present moment in our culture this yearning for meaning and consciousness, this yearning to give and serve something higher than ourselves, is breaking through the hard crust of our widespread cultural materialism and pseudo-scientific underestimation of what a human being is meant to be together with an equally tragic overestimation of what we human beings are capable of in our present everyday state of being. The intensity of the present confusion about the nature and existence of God is a symptom of this yearning within the whole of our modern culture.

As to how I would guide someone who is confused about the idea of God, I would suggest that he or she begins identifying what one might called “philosophical friends,”—people with whom one could seriously examine our thought about God through listening to each other, reading important and useful books together and trying to think for oneself while familiarizing oneself with the ideas of some of the world’s great thinkers. Cultivate openness without gullibility and skepticism without cynicism.

And, as soon as possible, be on the lookout for someone whose whole manner of speaking and being makes, as it were, a “sound” that draws your mind and heart. And then, little by little, try to see if that person can be of real help on the way to genuine self-knowledge and insight about what God is and is not. In this realm, more than any other even, the paradoxical marriage of both openness and scepticism is essential.

[Harbal]

Jacob Needleman describes the problem of metaphysical repression.

Stop blaming someone else for the rubbish you're spouting.

[Nick_A]

“I learned that very often the most intolerant and narrow-minded people are the ones who congratulate themselves on their tolerance and open-mindedness.”– Christopher Hitchens

The atheist got it right this time. Have you noticed that within progressive society those preaching tolerance are usually the most intolerant. It is as if these people for some reason considered to be educated have decided amongst themselves what is worthy of tolerance and what should be condemned. They express their imagined superior intellect with secular intolerance and congratulate themselves on their open-mindedness.

What makes it worse is that these people are often power hungry with a need to control others. If they only served to harm the intent of philosophy forums it wouldn't be so bad but they end up in school systems where they can inflict their spirit killing attitudes on the young. These people have no shame.

[Greta]

The spirit killing negativity ...

More or less describes you to a T.

Whinge whine moan. Over and over. You poor miserable sod. I'd feel sorry for you if you were a less determined irritant.

[Harbal]

Have you noticed that within progressive society those preaching tolerance are usually the most intolerant.

I've noticed that you are guilty of that. Quite excessively, as a matter of fact.

It is as if these people for some reason considered to be educated have decided amongst themselves what is worthy of tolerance and what should be condemned. They express their imagined superior intellect with secular intolerance and congratulate themselves on their open-mindedness.

Are you really so stupid as not to realise this is a description of your own behaviour?

[Nick_A]

The spirit killing negativity ...

More or less describes you to a T.

Whinge whine moan. Over and over. You poor miserable sod. I'd feel sorry for you if you were a less determined irritant.

You relish spirit killing. You view it as justified. No one should ever be allowed to question the divinity of the Great Beast. Where else can one read of child abuse defended with such passion?

[Nick_A]

Have you noticed that within progressive society those preaching tolerance are usually the most intolerant.

I've noticed that you are guilty of that. Quite excessively, as a matter of fact.

It is as if these people for some reason considered to be educated have decided amongst themselves what is worthy of tolerance and what should be condemned. They express their imagined superior intellect with secular intolerance and congratulate themselves on their open-mindedness.

Are you really so stupid as not to realise this is a description of your own behaviour?

As one of the beautiful people you should restrict your comments to the ugliness of others. That is all the beautiful people are capable of.

[Harbal]

you should restrict your comments to the ugliness of others.

I was restricting my comments to the ugliness of you and your resentful, small minded, shrivelled up little character. You're just a misfit trying to blame everyone else for your own shortcomings.

[Nick_A]

you should restrict your comments to the ugliness of others.

I was restricting my comments to the ugliness of you and your resentful, small minded, shrivelled up little character. You're just a misfit trying to blame everyone else for your own shortcomings.

The perspective of secular intolerance must condemn all opposition to the spirit killing of the young.

[Harbal]

The perspective of secular intolerance must condemn all opposition to the spirit killing of the young.

Meaningless drivel.

[Nick_A]

The perspective of secular intolerance must condemn all opposition to the spirit killing of the young.

Meaningless drivel.

As opposed to the meaningful drivel you as one of the beautiful people espouse

[Harbal]

As opposed to the meaningful drivel you as one of the beautiful people espouse

My drivel is intentional, yours is all you are capable of and its nature is determined by your resentful inadequacy. You are a resentful inadequate, Nick.

[Nick_A]

As opposed to the meaningful drivel you as one of the beautiful people espouse

My drivel is intentional, yours is all you are capable of and its nature is determined by your resentful inadequacy. You are a resentful inadequate, Nick.

As the wretched man I am inadequate. What is there to be resentful about? It is the human condition. I'll leave all this resentful emoting to you and Greta. I don't see any sense in it.

[Harbal]

What is there to be resentful about?

Your social ineptitude. You don't fit in, which makes you resentful. Rather than take responsibility for your social ineptitude you blame others for it, you try to elevate yourself by attempting to bring everyone else down. Anyone who doesn't take you seriously, which is almost everyone, gets stereotyped and dismissed as belonging to a group deserving of condemnation.

It is the human condition.

I would describe it more as a personality disorder.

I'll leave all this resentful emoting to you and Greta.

It's not resentment, Nick, it's irritation, you are sorely getting on everyone's nerves. It's strange that you keep singling out Greta, she is one of the few who have tried to engage with you on a reasonable level. I suppose, in doing that, she has highlighted your unreasonableness all the more, which is unforgivable to you.