It's true

[ken]

Dementia, now the biggest cause of people understanding what they want.

I do what I do to get people to give open and honest answers. The best way I found is to ask very simple and straightforward questions. But obviously you are unable to or unwilling to answer these type of questions also. So, I keep trying and learning. I have already made it quite clear that I am only here learning how to express better. And, according to you, I have not learned anything yet. Am I right?

It's amazing how far you've gone in this thread talking to me.

WHY does it appear amazing to you? My idea of being on a philosophy website is to gain better insights into what others think and write. This I think can only be done by showing inquisitiveness into the other person. Thus the reason I ask clarifying questions. The more open and honest answers I receive, then the more I learn about them, and if I am getting more direct answers, then the more I am learning about how to express better, through the way I am asking the questions.

But now that you ask, no, you are not right. You came to this forum not to learn, but to teach, from the begining, and when you say "better ways to express" the real truth is "better way to be listened more". You don't want people to understand you, or to understand the world and grow, you just want them to listen to you, you want to be "the teacher, the master, the one in charge". [/quote]

Are you absolutely sure of this? It sounds like you want to be the teacher, the master, the one in charge here telling others what they want or do not want.

It's very common here.
You don't know how little you know XD, many people think that they know it all, they have "all the important answers", they are the smartest, the wizest. It's probably genetic, when a person grows, they doubt less, and they move more in memory... sometimes if their brain gets old and ill enough, they stop thinking and they live completely in their memory, they don't know what they have in front of their eyes, they are thinking in years ago, that's dementia.

Thank you for teaching us that, teacher.

You should learn to listen, to think, at the begining, in a talk, that you are wrong, not to "express better" but to "understand better" (And that's the topic usually said by people who never listen, isn't that funny?). I'm saying what I say in this thread, cause it's obvious that you aren't doing that, none of you is searching for new knowledge, you are just saying yourself "I'm the best". Almost every question has been asked by a human being and answered by hundreds, thousands, millions of human beings before you, they wrote books about this, and you are not even saying what do you understand by truth, there is no definition here, you are talking about the existence or not, of something, when you don't even know for sure what means "existence" for you.

How do you know this master?

By you not asking inquiring questions of others and instead just telling them what human beings do, you come across as though you believe you know everything and that you are the master, the teacher, and the one in charge that every one else should listen to.

And you are seeing in my fucking joke sentences, a whole psichology crap that includes that I'm the one seeing things that aren't there, isn't that funny?

Whatever man, I'm out XD.

You know what is more funny? Every time I question people, in order to gain a further and better understanding of where exactly they are coming from, and they do not answer my questions, for whatever reason, they usually finish with "I'm out". I am still unsure how much fear, or the mental state, plays into their running awayness. I never get the chance to ask further clarifying questions.

By the way if your sentences were just a joke, then I do not get the joke. I did not see anything funny in it. Also, you could have just said that you were joking without the rest of what you wrote. I NEVER said I saw anything there. I asked you a clarifying question. By asking you to clarify if I am right or not cancels out any seeing, believing and assuming. I asked you if I had learned anything or not yet. You clarified this question by saying I have. Now, can you inform me master and teacher, what exactly is it that I have learned?

[Lacewing]

Every time I question people, in order to gain a further and better understanding of where exactly they are coming from, and they do not answer my questions, for whatever reason, they usually finish with "I'm out". I am still unsure how much fear, or the mental state, plays into their running awayness. I never get the chance to ask further clarifying questions.

I know you've received feedback from myself and others before, letting you know that you go on perhaps a bit much with things. Some people are not willing to invest themselves to the degree that it requires to deal with that. Rather than being a simple back and forth exchange, it's like you are whirling and whirling, and the other person must watch and keep track of it in order to respond to everything you touch on. You just can't realistically expect other people to do that, Ken. In addition, you get whirling so much that you completely miss or twist what other people are responding BECAUSE (I think) you want to whirl some more! Naturally there are many ways of exchanging information and understanding that DO NOT REQUIRE that level of intensity. I'm not suggesting that you change how you do it -- I'm just telling you that's why I (and probably others) say "I'm out". You can think it's due to fear or whatever... but that's not it for me. I would have happily explored things with you if you didn't overwhelm the entire interaction with your whirling. I wish you peace.

[ken]

Every time I question people, in order to gain a further and better understanding of where exactly they are coming from, and they do not answer my questions, for whatever reason, they usually finish with "I'm out". I am still unsure how much fear, or the mental state, plays into their running awayness. I never get the chance to ask further clarifying questions.

I know you've received feedback from myself and others before, letting you know that you go on perhaps a bit much with things. Some people are not willing to invest themselves to the degree that it requires to deal with that. Rather than being a simple back and forth exchange, it's like you are whirling and whirling, and the other person must watch and keep track of it in order to respond to everything you touch on. You just can't realistically expect other people to do that, Ken. In addition, you get whirling so much that you completely miss or twist what other people are responding BECAUSE (I think) you want to whirl some more! Naturally there are many ways of exchanging information and understanding that DO NOT REQUIRE that level of intensity. I'm not suggesting that you change how you do it -- I'm just telling you that's why I (and probably others) say "I'm out". You can think it's due to fear or whatever... but that's not it for me. I would have happily explored things with you if you didn't overwhelm the entire interaction with your whirling. I wish you peace.

Thanks for this response lacewing.

I am sure I sometimes miss what the other people are responding, and that is why I continually ask more clarifying questions. I think that the way I ask my questions sometimes people might think I am trying to go down a particular path leading to any particular view, but I assure that is not what I am doing. Whilst I might completely miss what other people are responding I certainly hope I never twist their response. If, and when, I do I want to be corrected. Also I think it might be my passion that is coming across as a high level of intensity. I certainly do not mean to come across as that intense.

I am very happy you clarified the reason "you out" is because of my level of intensity. Thanks again, lacewing.

[TSBU]

I do what I do to get people to give open and honest answers. The best way I found is to ask very simple and straightforward questions. But obviously you are unable to or unwilling to answer these type of questions also. So, I keep trying and learning. I have already made it quite clear that I am only here learning how to express better. And, according to you, I have not learned anything yet. Am I right?

It's amazing how far you've gone in this thread talking to me.

WHY does it appear amazing to you? My idea of being on a philosophy website is to gain better insights into what others think and write. This I think can only be done by showing inquisitiveness into the other person. Thus the reason I ask clarifying questions. The more open and honest answers I receive, then the more I learn about them, and if I am getting more direct answers, then the more I am learning about how to express better, through the way I am asking the questions.

But now that you ask, no, you are not right. You came to this forum not to learn, but to teach, from the begining, and when you say "better ways to express" the real truth is "better way to be listened more". You don't want people to understand you, or to understand the world and grow, you just want them to listen to you, you want to be "the teacher, the master, the one in charge".

Are you absolutely sure of this? It sounds like you want to be the teacher, the master, the one in charge here telling others what they want or do not want.

It's very common here.
You don't know how little you know XD, many people think that they know it all, they have "all the important answers", they are the smartest, the wizest. It's probably genetic, when a person grows, they doubt less, and they move more in memory... sometimes if their brain gets old and ill enough, they stop thinking and they live completely in their memory, they don't know what they have in front of their eyes, they are thinking in years ago, that's dementia.

Thank you for teaching us that, teacher.

You should learn to listen, to think, at the begining, in a talk, that you are wrong, not to "express better" but to "understand better" (And that's the topic usually said by people who never listen, isn't that funny?). I'm saying what I say in this thread, cause it's obvious that you aren't doing that, none of you is searching for new knowledge, you are just saying yourself "I'm the best". Almost every question has been asked by a human being and answered by hundreds, thousands, millions of human beings before you, they wrote books about this, and you are not even saying what do you understand by truth, there is no definition here, you are talking about the existence or not, of something, when you don't even know for sure what means "existence" for you.

How do you know this master?

By you not asking inquiring questions of others and instead just telling them what human beings do, you come across as though you believe you know everything and that you are the master, the teacher, and the one in charge that every one else should listen to.

And you are seeing in my fucking joke sentences, a whole psichology crap that includes that I'm the one seeing things that aren't there, isn't that funny?

Whatever man, I'm out XD.

You know what is more funny? Every time I question people, in order to gain a further and better understanding of where exactly they are coming from, and they do not answer my questions, for whatever reason, they usually finish with "I'm out". I am still unsure how much fear, or the mental state, plays into their running awayness. I never get the chance to ask further clarifying questions.

By the way if your sentences were just a joke, then I do not get the joke. I did not see anything funny in it. Also, you could have just said that you were joking without the rest of what you wrote. I NEVER said I saw anything there. I asked you a clarifying question. By asking you to clarify if I am right or not cancels out any seeing, believing and assuming. I asked you if I had learned anything or not yet. You clarified this question by saying I have. Now, can you inform me master and teacher, what exactly is it that I have learned?[/quote]

[ken]

tsbu

Mature.

By the way also quoted incorrectly.

[surreptitious57]

I know you have received feedback from myself and others before letting you know that you go on perhaps a bit much with things. Some people
are not willing to invest themselves to the degree that it requires to deal with that. Rather than being a simple back and forth exchange its like you are whirling and whirling and the other person must watch and keep track of it in order to respond to everything you touch on. You just can
not realistically expect other people to do that Ken. In addition you get whirling so much that you completely miss or twist what other people are responding BECAUSE ( I think ) you want to whirl some more! Naturally there are many ways of exchanging information and understanding that DO NOT REQUIRE that level of intensity. I am not suggesting that you change how you do it - I am just telling you that is why I ( and probably others ) say I am out. You can think its due to fear or whatever .. but thats not it for me. I would have happily explored things with you if you did not over whelm the entire interaction with your whirling. I wish you peace

ken can come across as intense and obsessive but I for one actually support him in his endeavour
As all he is trying to do is to achieve the best possible means of understanding his fellow posters

[Lacewing]

ken can come across as intense and obsessive but I for one actually support him in his endeavour
As all he is trying to do is to achieve the best possible means of understanding his fellow posters

Ken has expressed frustration over the way people avoid engaging with him, and he was suspecting it was due to their fear. I thought it was helpful to give him honest feedback about how his communication method might be putting off some people. It might also -- more importantly -- give him insight into the levels of his own need. Being intense and obsessive could be symptoms of something else. I've experienced it in my own life. I think it's useful to understand what actually causes things to unfold as they do, especially if the person is frustrated by it. Then we can more consciously choose whether to keep spinning as we do while expecting different results.

[ken]

ken can come across as intense and obsessive but I for one actually support him in his endeavour
As all he is trying to do is to achieve the best possible means of understanding his fellow posters

Ken has expressed frustration over the way people avoid engaging with him, and he was suspecting it was due to their fear.

Just to clarify, I did not suspect the avoidance was due to their fear. I said, "I am still unsure how much fear, or the mental state, plays into..." this avoidance. This means I am still unsure if there is any emotional state, how much fear, if any, OR, if it is only the mental state, the thinking, which plays into the avoidance. You have already cleared the reason you, yourself, avoid engaging with Me, which I did thank you for. By saying that I go on perhaps a bit much with things and that because I get whirling so much that I completely miss or twist what other people are responding. Have I got it right that the reason you avoid Me is NOT because of any fear, or emotional state, but because of the way I go on? Did I miss or twist anything here now?

Also, you mentioned that it is like I am "whirling and whirling", and that I "go on perhaps a bit much with things". You mentioned the word 'whirling' five times and 'go on a bit much with things'. Actually I have no idea what you mean by 'whirling' and by that I 'go on a bit much with things', I was going to let it go but so that i do NOT completely miss or twist this response, could you please clarify this for Me?

I thought it was helpful to give him honest feedback about how his communication method might be putting off some people. It might also -- more importantly -- give him insight into the levels of his own need. Being intense and obsessive could be symptoms of something else. I've experienced it in my own life. I think it's useful to understand what actually causes things to unfold as they do, especially if the person is frustrated by it. Then we can more consciously choose whether to keep spinning as we do while expecting different results.

I know exactly what the need is, that need is to be heard, and I know that the level of that need is the exact same for every human being. But the less one is capable of expressing one's self and being heard, then the desire (wish and "need") to be heard is more.

I understand that me being completely unable to communicate exactly what it is i want to express causes the frustration. The feeling that comes with that experience can be completely unbearable at times. But we persist.

Remembering to consciously choose to change old behaviors and find new ways is a constant challenge. Learning how to achieve different and better results is very rewarding but a constant process. Learning how to not keep spinning when that is all I have done my life and I do not know any other way has been hard. It is only from being told what I am doing wrong, which I can not see, that is when I can start to understand and learn more.

The reason I am here is to learn how to communicate and express better. It is open and honest feedback from people like you and surreptitious57 that really help Me to learn and better understand more about the way I communicate, and which again I am really thankful for.

Trying to focus solely on fully understanding other posters ONLY, so that I can learn how to better communicate with all human beings is my main goal here, but trying to do this while also trying to withdraw and withhold any and all of what i want (and need) to express is also a constant challenge. But that is why I am here. If I can gain a better understanding of where posters are coming from here, then I am learning how to better express to others.

Lacewing you say that I completely miss or twist what other people are responding. I would be a fool to deny that I do not do that, but the reason I can be intense and ask so many clarifying questions sometimes is so that I do not at all miss or twist what other people are responding. I am seriously trying to better understand them. Also, when I find people who have missed or twisted what I have said I know it is my fault and so try to reword what I had previously written and try to get them to focus on what I actually meant. Every one is different and how every person gains a better perspective or insight into another may need a different approach or a different way of expressing an idea or thought. I know it can be annoying but I try to reword the same sentences so that more people can understand Me better. Is that partly what you mean by Me "whirling".

I could not love it any more for any person who finds Me missing or twisting what they are really saying and meaning to stop Me and correct Me where I am wrong, and even just trying to express what they want Me to understand in another way. I may or may not get it. I am only a very simple person, and sometimes too slow to catch on.

I love learning and by others doing that they are teaching Me what is right and so I am learning more. To Me there is not much more rewarding in Life then continually learning more and becoming wiser.

[surreptitious57]

Being intense and obsessive could be symptoms of something else

ken has autism and describes himself as a simple and slow person who needs things explained to him
very clearly in order to avoid confusion. This is why he can appear to others as intense and obsessive

[surreptitious57]

I love learning and by others doing that they are teaching Me what is right and so I am learning more
To Me there is not much more rewarding in Life then continually learning more and becoming wiser

Knowledge acquisition is my goal in life as well ken and I want to carry on learning till the day I die

[Lacewing]

Have I got it right that the reason you avoid Me is NOT because of any fear, or emotional state, but because of the way I go on?

Yes... and I explain this a little more below.

Did I miss or twist anything here now?

No

I have no idea what you mean by 'whirling'...

Spinning. The dictionary defines it as: spinning quickly.

...and by that I 'go on a bit much with things'

By that I mean: Repeating things over and over, and saying a lot for what you could say with a little. The reason it's necessary and helpful to avoid that can be understood by realizing that each person only has a certain amount of focus and energy that they're willing to invest in each interaction they have with another. If you really want an answer to a question, it's best to present only a few questions at a time. If you want to present concepts, it can help to do it in smaller "chunks" (a few paragraphs) rather than lots of paragraphs (especially when the paragraphs are saying the same things over and over). Many people will see a very long post and think "I'm not devoting myself to that". They want a quicker payoff for their investment. They'll look for something they can digest quickly.

If I use eating/food as an analogy, it's like the difference of giving a person a few bites and saying "Tell me how that tastes" vs. shoveling a whole plate of food down their throat and saying "How did that taste?". You're more likely to get a clear answer if you're not asking them to wade through and assess "it all" at once. Does that make sense? For good two-way communication, I think there has to be a balance between what one person wants to express, and what another person wants to process.

[Lacewing]

Being intense and obsessive could be symptoms of something else

ken has autism and describes himself as a simple and slow person who needs things explained to him
very clearly in order to avoid confusion. This is why he can appear to others as intense and obsessive

Interesting! I did not know that. It causes me to pause and ask myself, would I have communicated differently had I known? And should I? Interesting questions.

In person, I definitely attune uniquely with the person I'm communicating with -- but it's so much easier to communicate that way, because there are so many other cues that can be used. Online, was very odd for me at first, but I have discovered some benefits -- such as speaking much more freely, and with raw energy. I communicate with everyone on here the same. I have to trust that they come here freely (as I do) and choose to engage and stay as long as it's beneficial to them. It's actually a gift to engage with people outside of the usual socially correct and stifled ways. I think it helps all of us be more real... and be more challenged... and evolve in whatever ways work for us individually.

[TSBU]

if you are autistic (That's all what I've read in previous posts) you should practice with people in person (is that sentence right in english? I mean, being phisically with them, in the same room, not with the computer). It's completely different to talk in person and in internet, many people have said me that I may be an asperger or something like that (and I fail more than common people trying to identify feelings in faces).
People in this forum are not "common people" (This forum can certeanly help you if you want to practice how to be with agressive big egos), writing is completely different than talking, and autism usually has problems more with tone, with faces, than making good sentences. Try chatRoulette or something like that.

By the way, does anybody know about something like chatroulette but with no cams and no sex? I like (Need) to talk to strangers, but the other day I tried a page like that, and it was 10/10 guys stoping talking to me after 10 seconds when they knew that I have a dick.

[Harbal]

By the way, does anybody know about something like chatroulette but with no cams and no sex? I like (Need) to talk to strangers, but the other day I tried a page like that, and it was 10/10 guys stoping talking to me after 10 seconds when they knew that I have a dick.

Well my suggestion would be, the next time you do it, either turn off your camera or get dressed beforehand.

[attofishpi]

By the way, does anybody know about something like chatroulette but with no cams and no sex? I like (Need) to talk to strangers, but the other day I tried a page like that, and it was 10/10 guys stoping talking to me after 10 seconds when they knew that I have a dick.

The local pub? Or, cut your penis off?