Thanksgiving: what do you have to be thankful for?

[Philosophy Explorer]

I haven't noticed that, but perhaps they have better English skills than Americans (as long as they haven't been unfortunate enough to learn English from an American).

Yes, I've seen that before, someone who learns English as a 2nd language thinks they know it better that someone who grew up speaking the language.

I can see why you and PE are friends.

We have common enemies.

PhilX

[thedoc]

I haven't noticed that, but perhaps they have better English skills than Americans (as long as they haven't been unfortunate enough to learn English from an American).

Yes, I've seen that before, someone who learns English as a 2nd language thinks they know it better that someone who grew up speaking the language.

I can see why you and PE are friends.

Yes, I seem to be attracted to people who are reasonable and polite, and avoid people who are hostile and offensive for no reason. The same thing happened when I started teaching, I started in a mixed school and was immediately labeled as a bigot by the black kids because I was white, and not because of anything I had said or done.

[Hobbes' Choice]

Interesting that those who don't use English as their primary language, feel compelled to correct the usage of those who do use it as their primary language.

I haven't noticed that, but perhaps they have better English skills than Americans (as long as they haven't been unfortunate enough to learn English from an American).

Yes, I've seen that before, someone who learns English as a 2nd language thinks they know it better that someone who grew up speaking the language.

The fact is they often do speak it better than a native.
1) People with 2nd languages are often above average intelligence; being capable of multiple languages.
2) They most often will have learned it formally, and would make that claim after mastery.
3) They often will have learned the 3rd or 4th language too, and are more aware of the rules of grammar, and syntax.

[thedoc]

Yes, I've seen that before, someone who learns English as a 2nd language thinks they know it better that someone who grew up speaking the language.

I can see why you and PE are friends.

We have common enemies.

PhilX

Yes, and those common enemies are hostile and rude for no reason.

[thedoc]

I haven't noticed that, but perhaps they have better English skills than Americans (as long as they haven't been unfortunate enough to learn English from an American).

Yes, I've seen that before, someone who learns English as a 2nd language thinks they know it better that someone who grew up speaking the language.

The fact is they often do speak it better than a native.
1) People with 2nd languages are often above average intelligence; being capable of multiple languages.
2) They most often will have learned it formally, and would make that claim after mastery.
3) They often will have learned the 3rd or 4th language too, and are more aware of the rules of grammar, and syntax.

Yes they often learn and apply those rules artificially rather that using them by 2nd nature. So they try harder, and it shows.

BTW your 1st premise is incorrect, most Europeans know several languages and this includes people of all intellectual abilities.

Your 2nd premise is questionable as many claim mastery after only a rudimentary introduction to the language.

Learning a language does not require the understanding of grammar and syntax, when it is learned just to get along.

[Hobbes' Choice]

Yes, I've seen that before, someone who learns English as a 2nd language thinks they know it better that someone who grew up speaking the language.

The fact is they often do speak it better than a native.
1) People with 2nd languages are often above average intelligence; being capable of multiple languages.
2) They most often will have learned it formally, and would make that claim after mastery.
3) They often will have learned the 3rd or 4th language too, and are more aware of the rules of grammar, and syntax.

Yes they often learn and apply those rules artificially rather that using them by 2nd nature. So they try harder, and it shows.

BTW your 1st premise is incorrect, most Europeans know several languages and this includes people of all intellectual abilities.

I do not think this is true. Europe is a big place and includes idiot Brits few of whom master a 2nd language. Whilst most French, Swiss, Belgians, Scandinavians and Germans have language skills, i do not think "most" have mastery.

Your 2nd premise is questionable as many claim mastery after only a rudimentary introduction to the language.

You'd have to ask them all. That's the problem with all sweeping statements and generalities.

Learning a language does not require the understanding of grammar and syntax, when it is learned just to get along.

There is evidence to suggest that basic syntax in innate, without which no language would be possible. I agree that a detailed knowledge of grammar is not needed, by whilst acquiring a second language, this has to be known to achieve a passable skill.

[Hobbes' Choice]

I can see why you and PE are friends.

We have common enemies.

PhilX

Yes, and those common enemies are hostile and rude for no reason.

Rudeness always has a reason.

[thedoc]

We have common enemies.

PhilX

Yes, and those common enemies are hostile and rude for no reason.

Rudeness always has a reason.

Xenophobia is not a valid reason.

[bobevenson]

Thanksgiving: what do you have to be thankful for?
Ouzo, The Ultimate Game!

[Hobbes' Choice]

Yes, and those common enemies are hostile and rude for no reason.

Rudeness always has a reason.

Xenophobia is not a valid reason.

it is a reason.

[Philosophy Explorer]

Rudeness always has a reason.

Xenophobia is not a valid reason.

it is a reason.

Doc, you hit the nail on the head. Being xenophobia stems from irrational fear, it can't be a valid reason.

PhilX

[Hobbes' Choice]

"thedoc wrote:

Yes, and those common enemies are hostile and rude for no reason."

There is a reason. Xenophobia is simply doc's POV, when he precious country seems under attack.

Sadly When you have such wonderful ambassadors here such as Bill and Bob representing the US, reasonable and justified derision might look like xenophobia to a person blinded by his own sense of pride and exceptionalism.

There are many other reasons that people here are rude to PhilX and others. Phil does not read what is written; when he does read, he does not understand, and where he understands he misinterprets and his rude when others point out his failings.

This all adds up to a pretty poor show from the US side. And since those birds of a feather tend to flock together with disregard for reason, and in primitive protection of their beloved country (right or wrong), this makes them look all the more ridiculous.

[Philosophy Explorer]

"thedoc wrote:

Yes, and those common enemies are hostile and rude for no reason."

There is a reason. Xenophobia is simply doc's POV, when he precious country seems under attack.

Sadly When you have such wonderful ambassadors here such as Bill and Bob representing the US, reasonable and justified derision might look like xenophobia to a person blinded by his own sense of pride and exceptionalism.

There are many other reasons that people here are rude to PhilX and others. Phil does not read what is written; when he does read, he does not understand, and where he understands he misinterprets and his rude when others point out his failings.

Have you flipped your lid? Bill and Bob certainly aren't ambassadors.

This pertains to what Hobbes has just written:

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." Eleanor Roosevelt

PhilX

[Hobbes' Choice]

"thedoc wrote:

Yes, and those common enemies are hostile and rude for no reason."

There is a reason. Xenophobia is simply doc's POV, when he precious country seems under attack.

Sadly When you have such wonderful ambassadors here such as Bill and Bob representing the US, reasonable and justified derision might look like xenophobia to a person blinded by his own sense of pride and exceptionalism.

There are many other reasons that people here are rude to PhilX and others. Phil does not read what is written; when he does read, he does not understand, and where he understands he misinterprets and his rude when others point out his failings.

Have you flipped your lid? Bill and Bob certainly aren't ambassadors.

This pertains to what Hobbes has just written:

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." Eleanor Roosevelt

PhilX

You started talking about people! All those nasty "rude people". Once again you shoot yourself in the foot. I was just telling you why they are rude.
Since you are always taking a stand behind the American barricades, and unerringly fail to allow the slightest critique of anything American, you have to expect to be associated with Bill and Bob, who are arming the barricades with you.
Am I going too fast for your. Maybe you'd like to try and read what I am writing?
You've taken you side. Live with it!

[Philosophy Explorer]

"thedoc wrote:

Yes, and those common enemies are hostile and rude for no reason."

There is a reason. Xenophobia is simply doc's POV, when he precious country seems under attack.

Sadly When you have such wonderful ambassadors here such as Bill and Bob representing the US, reasonable and justified derision might look like xenophobia to a person blinded by his own sense of pride and exceptionalism.

There are many other reasons that people here are rude to PhilX and others. Phil does not read what is written; when he does read, he does not understand, and where he understands he misinterprets and his rude when others point out his failings.

Have you flipped your lid? Bill and Bob certainly aren't ambassadors.

This pertains to what Hobbes has just written:

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." Eleanor Roosevelt

PhilX

You started talking about people! All those nasty "rude people". Once again you shoot yourself in the foot. I was just telling you why they are rude.
Since you are always taking a stand behind the American barricades, and unerringly fail to allow the slightest critique of anything American, you have to expect to be associated with Bill and Bob, who are arming the barricades with you.
Am I going too fast for your. Maybe you'd like to try and read what I am writing?
You've taken you side. Live with it!

Wrong. Read my OP.

To note, your entry post to this thread was off-topic. And you're still off-topic. You're what we call in the business, a thread derailer (or at least you're trying). So far you're the only one explicitly associating me with Bill and Bob (I expect one other to join the chorus).

It looks like you have nothing to be thankful for. What a poor year you're having. Oh btw you're encouraging me to do more American threads. That'll make up for your lack of British threads.

PhilX