President Trump

How should society be organised, if at all?

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artisticsolution
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Re: President Trump

Post by artisticsolution »

Walker wrote:
artisticsolution wrote:
I hope you are willing to take responsibility for your vote this time, Doc.

If trump screws up...will you admit you were wrong to vote for him or will you cry out that the reason things went wrong is because he was too liberal...like Republicans did when Bush screwed up?
Just do it the Democrat way.
Blame everyone else if caught, then claim meaningless, "full responsibility."

In other words, the weasel way.

It would take an idiot to claim responsibility for another's future actions, no matter who the person is.
Really? I suppose you don't believe you can know a person by the words they use or the actions they display? I am sorry that you are a poor judge of character, but some of us are very good judges of character. We know, for example, that more murder is likely , if we allow Charles Manson to roam free.

If you read my posts from the Bush Era, you will see I correctly predicted the ending results of a bush presidency. I did not employ the use of esp, psychic , prophet hocus pocus...all I did was use a little common sense when listening to their words and ideas and actions.

However, I realize there is nothing I can say to convince that there is a rational way to understand personalities, because it is not a strength of yours, you can't believe anyone can possess such knowledge.

It's the difference between falling for a scam and not falling for a scam....

I have some swamp land in Florida that would be a great investment for you....
Melchior
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Re: President Trump

Post by Melchior »

You people are so stupid....Lincoln was hated more than any other president!

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hist ... -president
Walker
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Re: President Trump

Post by Walker »

Of course you have a basis for your opinion. Is your opinion valid? In the context of POTUS, not by the evidence.

The evidence shows someone overcoming everything the status quo threw at him, including a lot of lies.

The evidence indicates that he’s obviously a formidable warrior, and sui generis.

So far, no indication of his limits.

They will be actively sought, and his faults likely magnified out of proportion, beyond reasonableness, for the sake of ideology.
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Gustav Bjornstrand
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Re: President Trump

Post by Gustav Bjornstrand »

Walker
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Re: President Trump

Post by Walker »

Gustav Bjornstrand wrote:An interesting perspective.
Moore knows where his bread is buttered.

The rust belt was husked out by the Democrats on every level of government, and the people there know it.

Bernie Sanders sold out in the last election, and that’s not to blame Bernie. He did what he had to do, and who knows what coercion he faced. He found his limits on the alter of Clinton.

The Democrats sold out Michigan a long time ago, and everyone there knows it.

Obama destroyed the Democratic Party in his wake. Maybe that’s a gift horse, but if some oppositional party to the GOP with some integrity should appear, unlike the current Democratic Party that is quite fractured, then a choice of views would be better for the folks.

I've heard of an AAP Party? Or is it, AARP? :lol:

There’s no one left in the Dems, the consequence of chaos. A few socialists if they dare to reveal in a conservative climate and expect to be elected. Any unknown potentials in that party are clinging to the coasts.

Clinton's message was NO Trump. That didn't fit with what used to be the party of big, experimental vision that must say yes.
Last edited by Walker on Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
thedoc
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Re: President Trump

Post by thedoc »

artisticsolution wrote: It's the difference between falling for a scam and not falling for a scam....

I have some swamp land in Florida that would be a great investment for you....
As the sea levels rise you would be better off investing in property in northern Fla, or southern Ga. as it will become ocean front property.
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Greta
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Re: President Trump

Post by Greta »

If there must be a Republican in office, I'd rather it be Trump than some of the wild-eyed evangelicals in the party. GWB's administration was the worst I've seen in a western nation since Slobodan Milosovich overstepped. I'm optimistic that Trump will be far less problematic.

However, inertia on climate change will cost the US (and Australia) a fortune when they are forced to pay top dollars from other countries for sustainable technologies that could have been refined at home. Due to the dominance of existential considerations, not many commentators seem to count the potential economic costs of climate inaction.
Walker
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Re: President Trump

Post by Walker »

thedoc wrote:
artisticsolution wrote: It's the difference between falling for a scam and not falling for a scam....

I have some swamp land in Florida that would be a great investment for you....
As the sea levels rise you would be better off investing in property in northern Fla, or southern Ga. as it will become ocean front property.
The Huffinginton Post abandoned Clinton after Huffington dropped the Huffinginton Post. I think that’s the timeline, though I could be wrong. I wonder if it was Huffington’s say-so that dropped Clinton, and why she did that. Trump must know her on a social level. Maybe, conflict of interest. Maybe Huffington hates Trump. Who knows. Except for the first sentence, just disinterested inference, not even opinion. Wonder what the inside scoop might be.
Walker
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Re: President Trump

Post by Walker »

Melchior wrote:You people are so stupid....Lincoln was hated more than any other president!

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hist ... -president
Some say that's deserved, because many died to free the slaves, and amend the principle of goverance.

Some say he was a criminal because of those deaths.
artisticsolution
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Re: President Trump

Post by artisticsolution »

Walker wrote:
Melchior wrote:You people are so stupid....Lincoln was hated more than any other president!

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hist ... -president
Some say that's deserved, because many died to free the slaves, and amend the principle of goverance.

Some say he was a criminal because of those deaths.
Many died for the USA to gain independence, as well. Many people died to stop Hitler and so on.

I am beginning to think you are being unreasonable on purpose.
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Arising_uk
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Re: President Trump

Post by Arising_uk »

Harbal wrote:I don't like either.
The more things change, the more they stay the same. Better?
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Arising_uk
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Re: President Trump

Post by Arising_uk »

Walker wrote:...

The evidence shows someone overcoming everything the status quo threw at him, including a lot of lies.

...
Or just shows that the 50% that bothered to vote in America don't follow the mainstream media outlets anymore and vote according to Wastebook and Twatter.

This is a trend in thinking about news and most things nowadays as everyone just takes what confirms their biases and tastes rather than being challenged by other and others thoughts.
artisticsolution
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Re: President Trump

Post by artisticsolution »

Greta wrote:If there must be a Republican in office, I'd rather it be Trump than some of the wild-eyed evangelicals in the party. GWB's administration was the worst I've seen in a western nation since Slobodan Milosovich overstepped. I'm optimistic that Trump will be far less problematic.

However, inertia on climate change will cost the US (and Australia) a fortune when they are forced to pay top dollars from other countries for sustainable technologies that could have been refined at home. Due to the dominance of existential considerations, not many commentators seem to count the potential economic costs of climate inaction.
I hope you are right, Greta. I just don't think you are. I did not vote for George Bush and I thought he ran the country very foolishly. However, I do n9t think he was a mean person ...plotting on how to take advantage of his position.

I do not think that of trump...I think he is a very mean person who is only interested in taking care of himself and his family. I think he wouldn't think twice about selling the USA to Russia. He is seriously disturbed and I think he takes delight in people'say suffering...esp. at his hands.

I may be wrong....but I don't think I am. Time will tell...I was right about Bush....you could see the financial collapse coming... I am surprised people were shocked when it happened. It's just about paying attention to details and thinking a few moves in advance.
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Arising_uk
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Re: President Trump

Post by Arising_uk »

Walker wrote:Do some research. ...
Is the fifth amendment against the law in America now?
The FBI listed some of her recent crimes. ...
Surely the word is "alleged" or is the FBI the judge and jury in America now?
The DOJ, under Obama's control, declined to charge her and prosecute. Now that she is no longer a political liability and any remnants of the Party integrity has been eviscerated by her and her former boss, she's fair game. She's a sitting duck hoping for the mercy of the lame duck.
Let's wait and see then.

But your systems certainly sound like they suck.
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Greta
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Re: President Trump

Post by Greta »

artisticsolution wrote:
Walker wrote:
Melchior wrote:You people are so stupid....Lincoln was hated more than any other president!

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hist ... -president
Some say that's deserved, because many died to free the slaves, and amend the principle of goverance.

Some say he was a criminal because of those deaths.
Many died for the USA to gain independence, as well. Many people died to stop Hitler and so on.

I am beginning to think you are being unreasonable on purpose.
I think Walker was pointing out the plurality of opinion and how something as obvious as the immoral and ultimately self-defeating nature of slavery was not understood at all by many people at the time.

I would like to wax philosophical about tangential issues for a while that I think are important in putting recent events into perspective. Please feel free to ignore as usual :))

A lot of trouble in the world is caused by what I think of as the writhing of a threatened and dying beast - that is, religion, which is furiously fighting back as ever more people realise how bizarre it is to uncritically believe ancient mythology.

Another dying beast - democracy - is so fragile that it's easily influenced by a simple well-timed strategic leak of non-information by James Comey. Yet democracy was already eroded by juvenile public conversations triggered by a self-interested, sensationalist and obfuscationist media proprietors. More importantly still, governments are outgunned by large, powerful multinational corporations capable of avoiding making proper tax contributions to society through their influence of public policy, and also deciding how we "little people" are treated.

The old much-loved (or loathed) institutions of the 20th century are now crumbling, as all systems must do. However, change is difficult, and those who are already hurt by globalisation are driving these Tea Party style forces in the west. These people have been disregarded and they are prepared to take risks, feeling they don't have much left to lose. I figure that there usually is something to lose and that we westerners take a lot of good things in life for granted, focusing on the shortfalls. This critical and competitive attitude no doubt has brought humanity much progress and success, but the unsatiated hunger for more - bigger, better, safer, cleaner, faster etc. remains. Does the word "enough" ever apply or is that the first sign of hubris that leads to a fall?

This is not to say that those under mortgage pressure should just be satisfied with their lot as "the top 1%" continue to up their percentage of society's wealth. The relativity issue is weirdly important. Theoretically, one should be satisfied to even have a roof over one's head, decent food to eat and a small level of entertainment, given the number of people in the world who would be thrilled to have those basics. Happiness surveys suggest that if almost everyone in a community is poor, then those people will tend to be happier than those who may be much better off, but relatively poor compared with others in their society. Being on the bottom diminishes happiness - at least for those focused on the status game.

This, I suggest, plays a role in the success of religion and meditation - the chance to take a break from endless hassles, expected self-improvements and life "failures" [sic], to take time out and focus on how wonderful life and existence is in its essence, even if aspects of human society are problematic.

Ideally people shouldn't need conduits to appreciate the amazingness of life but we do. I see rationalist scientists like Richard Dawkins and Lawrence Krauss clearly getting the same kind of thrill from biology and cosmology respectively as theists get from their religions. They are filled with awe and love for their preferred "awe and love object". On a personal level, passion for pretty well anything - from nature, religion, art, a football team and so on - can perform that same energising function. You don't need religion or meditation for it.

So religions will logically fall as humanity somewhat disentangles itself from ancient myths. Religion will be replaced by love and appreciation of nature and reality per se, and nature's/humanity's/technology's complex , fascinating workings and webs of relationships, being less inclined to take it all for granted.

Democracy will be replaced by (mostly) benign dictatorships, much as is in place today, though with less pretence of choice and much more privatised. Increasingly government will become a consortium of business leaders. Most of us are already simply voting for rich people who cannot afford to give a damn about you in their position, even if they wanted to. This is no longer a world made by or for individuals. We little people have been supplanted by institutions, which are all that matter in politics, in the corridors of power. Individuals now only matter insofar as they affect institutions.

Individuals can still lead good lives, even in a system that is largely indifferent to their welfare. Those who are thought valuable by institutions will enjoy privileged lives. Other happy people will simply fly under the radar, like rats nesting in a ceiling, enjoying subtle freedoms while nimbly avoiding the large and dangerous "predators".

Ostensibly this was an election for "individuals fighting back" but Trump is still an institutions man, making his election just one more step in the shift in power from government (ie. the people) to corporations, a transition that has been in train for some time.
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