People first, God second. Should people put themselves above God?

[Greatest I am]

People first, God second. Should people put themselves above God?

Jesus put people above God and so should we. “Mark 2;27 And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: 28Therefore, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

I think that the world would be a better place if people put their wants and needs as well as the wants and needs of other people above God’s.

I look at all the wealth that religions squander on themselves with huge churches and mosques, which are mostly empty, --- while many people still live in poverty and despair, --- and wonder if that wealth would be better spent on the poor. That would conform more to what Jesus taught us to do for the poor.

Governments seem to be of the same mindset as the religions as they spend lavishly on themselves while the poor go with their needs ignored.

I would think that religions would show the better mindset but that does not seem to be the case.

Before religions started thinking of God as a literal and real being, a more peaceful world, religiously speaking, home churches were the order of the day. Archeology has proven this. They were used as feeding stations for the poor and destitute and contributed more to the fellowship that people need more that the mega churches, temples and mosques that we have today.

Should we consider the benefits of the older ways and bring religion back into the homes where it’s expression and help for the poor can be better served?

Seems to me that the religious crave a personal relationship with their God, and that is best expressed from homes and not from the self-aggrandizing mega monstrosities and opulent churches and mosques that advertise their wasted wealth in our cities.

Does charity really begin at home, by putting people first and not God?

Regards
DL

[Terrapin Station]

I'm an atheist who believes that God is an absurd fiction. So yeah, clearly I'd put people above that.

[Greatest I am]

I'm an atheist who believes that God is an absurd fiction. So yeah, clearly I'd put people above that.

Fiction. No argument.

Absurd. That would depend on how you read the various holy books.

As a Gnostic Christian, I see some wisdom in the bible as a consolidation of many of the older traditions.

-------

I keep a bible in the house even though I think this quote quite correct.

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Then again, I am a Gnostic Christian and know how to read the filth in it.


Said of Gnostic Christian versus Christian bible reading practices.

“Both read the Bible day and night; but you read black where I read white.”
William Blake.

I would take this further and advise you to read any scriptures from as many POV as is within you. Question everything including yourself.

The bible, if read as a book of wisdom, does have much wisdom though.

You just have to read it the way Gnostics do and revers a lot of the Christian morals.

Christians call evil good while Gnostic Christians call evil, evil.

I E. Gnostic Christians think that bible God, the demiurge to us, is quite immoral for thinking that torturing King David's baby for 6 days before finally killing it is good justice. Gnostic Christians think that evil while Christians think that a good form of justice.

Which group do you think is right?

Regards
DL

[Terrapin Station]

I would take this further and advise you to read any scriptures from as many POV as is within you.

I'd need to have some interest in it to do that. But I think it's crap as literature, I disagree with most of the ideological content, and I think that a lot of the philosophical ideas are nonsense. So it's not something I'd bother with any more than I already have.

The bible, if read as a book of wisdom, does have much wisdom though. You just have to read it the way Gnostics do and revers a lot of the Christian morals.

What is an example of something that you take to be wisdom in it?

I disagree with the majority of Christian morality, by the way.

At any rate, in what sense are you a Christian if you think the Bible is just fiction? Is it similar to how LaVeyan Satanists call themselves Satanists?

[Greatest I am]

[

quote="Greatest I am"]I would take this further and advise you to read any scriptures from as many POV as is within you.

I'd need to have some interest in it to do that. But I think it's crap as literature, I disagree with most of the ideological content, and I think that a lot of the philosophical ideas are nonsense. So it's not something I'd bother with any more than I already have.

The bible, if read as a book of wisdom, does have much wisdom though. You just have to read it the way Gnostics do and revers a lot of the Christian morals.

What is an example of something that you take to be wisdom in it?

If read somewhat literally, these are.

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Some of the wisdom that is gleaned from reversing what is written would for instance be the great flood where God kills when he can just as easily cure. This policy is obviously immoral and not moral the way Christians think.

I disagree with the majority of Christian morality, by the way.

If I cheery pick I can get to about 50/50, recognizing that most of scriptures are plagiarized from older and smarter traditions right back to Sumer and Egypt.

At any rate, in what sense are you a Christian if you think the Bible is just fiction? Is it similar to how LaVeyan Satanists call themselves Satanists?

[/quote]

The Christian part of Gnostic Christian just means that I focus on criticizing Christianity more than other religions. Although I have been after Islam a lot lately.

There are Gnostics of all religions and the term basically means that my Gnosis and apotheosis, --- minus the divine part of the interpretation of that word, ---- has taught me of a better God and that it is my duty to speak of that God. The name of our God is I am, and we really do mean ourselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9QI3nlinYQ

Regards
DL

[Terrapin Station]

If read somewhat literally, these are.

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Some of the wisdom that is gleaned from reversing what is written would for instance be the great flood where God kills when he can just as easily cure. This policy is obviously immoral and not moral the way Christians think.

?? None of that seems wise to me.

[attofishpi]

People first, God second. Should people put themselves above God?

Only the nitwits that think they are the 'Greatest'.

[Greatest I am]

If read somewhat literally, these are.

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Some of the wisdom that is gleaned from reversing what is written would for instance be the great flood where God kills when he can just as easily cure. This policy is obviously immoral and not moral the way Christians think.

?? None of that seems wise to me.

??

Do you not correct your children?

Do you not test concepts or issues to see if they are moral or not?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

People first, God second. Should people put themselves above God?

Only the nitwits that think they are the 'Greatest'.

Wow. You think Jesus is a nitwit for doing so do you.

Regards
DL

[Terrapin Station]

Do you not correct your children?

In a couple different senses I could say I do, but simply agreeing with something isn't sufficient for it to be wise.

For example, if someone says, "Don't try to order a Whopper from McDonald's. Go to Burger King for a Whopper." I'd agree, but I'd not say that that's wisdom. Wisdom requires more than simple agreement.

Do you not test concepts or issues to see if they are moral or not?

Only in the sense of exploring how I really feel about something, or seeing if my initial stance is consistent with what would otherwise be conflicting feelings.

[Hobbes' Choice]

Easy.
Since god is a figment, it should always hold a subordinate position below things taken as real.

[Greatest I am]

Do you not correct your children?

In a couple different senses I could say I do, but simply agreeing with something isn't sufficient for it to be wise.

For example, if someone says, "Don't try to order a Whopper from McDonald's. Go to Burger King for a Whopper." I'd agree, but I'd not say that that's wisdom. Wisdom requires more than simple agreement.

Do you not test concepts or issues to see if they are moral or not?

Only in the sense of exploring how I really feel about something, or seeing if my initial stance is consistent with what would otherwise be conflicting feelings.

Round and round.

Are you saying that you are agreeing with an unwise saying?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Easy.
Since god is a figment, it should always hold a subordinate position below things taken as real.

Indeed.

Regards
DL

[Terrapin Station]

Do you not correct your children?

In a couple different senses I could say I do, but simply agreeing with something isn't sufficient for it to be wise.

For example, if someone says, "Don't try to order a Whopper from McDonald's. Go to Burger King for a Whopper." I'd agree, but I'd not say that that's wisdom. Wisdom requires more than simple agreement.

Do you not test concepts or issues to see if they are moral or not?

Only in the sense of exploring how I really feel about something, or seeing if my initial stance is consistent with what would otherwise be conflicting feelings.

Round and round.

Are you saying that you are agreeing with an unwise saying?

Regards
DL

"Wise/unwise" is a false dichotomy. "Unwise" has an implication that one shouldn't follow something, because it's likely to lead to trouble if one does. At that, there is advice one can disagree with that wouldn't be unwise to follow. One could just believe that it would be neutral to follow it, for example--perhaps it might waste a bit of time at most.

Even if one were to try to parse "wise/unwise" as "agree/disagree"--which wouldn't capture the semantic nuances of "wise/unwise," "agree/disagree" is still a false dichotomy. There can be things that you have no opinion on and where one is uninterested in the issue in question and feels that it doesn't make a difference either way. There can be things that you're interested in but where you do not know if you agree or disagree, and so on.

[Hobbes' Choice]

Easy.
Since god is a figment, it should always hold a subordinate position below things taken as real.

Indeed.

Regards
DL

So I am curious to know why you think the country needs to be under the yoke a a religion based on this figment. Do you not think that people will see through it?