God's knowledge?

[bahman]

A has knowledge of B - then A is different from B.

Ok.

If god pervades everything, then there is nothing separate from itself to have knowledge of or power over.

I don't understand you here. Could you please elaborate?

[Dontaskme]

Then "Zen" is a mystical experience, but not a philosophy. Since it cannot have reference to reason, coherence, evidence or objectivity, it cannot have reference to what we would call "truth" either.

Did you just make that up?

I suppose in a sense the invisible cannot have reference or reason to the visible. But then lets think about this rationally, who is making the proclamation that the visible exists? who sees that? can that be reasoned, be coherent, be evidenced, or objectified? have you thought about that?

Any inquiry into the nature of truth is a philosophy. Zen is the capacity to transcend the idea of separation. Transcendence is not an experience it's a realisation. The realisation that the true Self is itself just that pure consciousness, without which nothing can be known in any way.

Consciousness IS, conceptually known,but i consciousness cannot be seen or experienced because everything is consciousness one without a second.

To proclaim the minds inquiry into the nature of itself cannot have reference to reason, coherence, evidence or objectivity, is a typical mind activity when identified with name and form, and yet mind had no form except what it makes up. The mind simply has no way of looking at itself, and it doesn't need to...most it can do is rest in the pure awareness of it's unborn eternal being, and to know that everything that arises within it will pass away leaving without a trace, while I the I am-ness/beingness remain ever intact. One simply cannot get any closer to the truth than that, it is that intimate.

What the mind does is it tries to form a relationship with the objectified dead stuff, and is so hopelessly identified that it loses sight of what is actually here right now, the eternally alive subject that is pure boundless alive beingness.(consciousness)

I suppose what Jesus was talking about had no reference to reason, coherence, evidence or objectivity either according to your thinking.

And did you know that thoughts are not our own thoughts. And yet there is the believe that they are our own thoughts. Do you not find that a bit odd that someone would believe their thoughts to be their own?

You cannot deny or argue with the ''truth'' Immanuel Can....every one has it, because they are it. It's just that some don't know it, or have forgotten it.

[Hobbes' Choice]

Then "Zen" is a mystical experience, but not a philosophy. Since it cannot have reference to reason, coherence, evidence or objectivity, it cannot have reference to what we would call "truth" either.

Did you just make that up?

Zen is wholly a philosophy and has almost nothing to do with anything you could ever call mysticism.
The words are spoken from complete ignorance.

[Dontaskme]

Zen is wholly a philosophy and has almost nothing to do with anything you could ever call mysticism.
The words are spoken from complete ignorance.

A mystic is someone who knows the truth of beingness without knowing how that's known. This Knowing cannot be put into words, but words are the only medium available to point the truth to other. Nothing can be known to exist or known without ''Other''
''Other'' being the outer of the inner. The inner immortal self and the great cosmic power are one and the same.
Words only point to truth, but are not what the truth is. Every self conscious being is a mystic because consciousness is the only knowing there is. We are that. Name, number, form and meaning arise in THAT I AM-ness. It's that in which every thing arises and returns.

Everything is consciousness without an object, an object is knowledge known by consciousness and not known by the object it knows. Knowledge is a fiction, sourced in the real, this is not a contradiction because self cannot know anything without the appearance of duality. YOU as infinite immortal self consciousness are the source of every object known / thought.

You really are making it all up as you go along. If you don't believe this then answer where else does knowledge knowing come from, is there anything outside of consciousness that is also conscious of itself?

Consciousness can only see the object it knows, it cannot see the consciousness it is.

[Hobbes' Choice]

Zen is wholly a philosophy and has almost nothing to do with anything you could ever call mysticism.
The words are spoken from complete ignorance.

A mystic is someone who knows the truth of beingness without knowing how that's known.

No it isn't.
And that does not characterise the practitioners of Zen, in any event.
Stop making stuff up as you go along.

[Dontaskme]

Zen is wholly a philosophy and has almost nothing to do with anything you could ever call mysticism.
The words are spoken from complete ignorance.

A mystic is someone who knows the truth of beingness without knowing how that's known.

No it isn't.
And that does not characterise the practitioners of Zen, in any event.
Stop making stuff up as you go along.

Making stuff up can subside, but what happens when it starts up again, who is going to stop that? that's like saying stop thinking, who is going to stop thoughts arising eh?

And that does not characterise the practitioners of Zen,

You cannot practice what you are, you cannot practice being ON...who is the other that would practice being what they already are?

[Hobbes' Choice]

A mystic is someone who knows the truth of beingness without knowing how that's known.

No it isn't.
And that does not characterise the practitioners of Zen, in any event.
Stop making stuff up as you go along.

Making stuff up can subside, but what happens when it starts up again, who is going to stop that? that's like saying stop thinking, who is going to stop thoughts arising eh?

You might want to consider resorting to the truth.
But why would you do that, when you can live a fantasy?
If you knew anything about Zen you would not have made that ridiculous statement. Why not run along and find out about something. Knowing nothing might suit you, but for others, it just makes you look stupid.

Zen is counter ritual, counter dogma, counter scripture. It is about thinking (meditation). It has NO mystical content what ever.
It is closer to mindfulness than any formal religion.

[Dontaskme]

No it isn't.
And that does not characterise the practitioners of Zen, in any event.
Stop making stuff up as you go along.

Making stuff up can subside, but what happens when it starts up again, who is going to stop that? that's like saying stop thinking, who is going to stop thoughts arising eh?

You might want to consider resorting to the truth.
But why would you do that, when you can live a fantasy?
If you knew anything about Zen you would not have made that ridiculous statement. Why not run along and find out about something. Knowing nothing might suit you, but for others, it just makes you look stupid.

Why get all mad with this fictional character named dontsakme, just because you don't understand what's being told here.

You have absolutely no idea what to say to my subject content so you push it away in ignorance. and then have the audacity to call me stupid, take a look in the mirror.

If you say you know, you don't. And the mind hates not knowing...it makes it feel rather redundant.

[Dontaskme]

DP

[Dontaskme]

Zen is counter ritual, counter dogma, counter scripture. It is about thinking (meditation). It has NO mystical content what ever.
It is closer to mindfulness than any formal religion.

Zen is real. It has no counter opposite other than itself, the fictional character you dummy.

''Mystic'' simply means a symbolic representation of I Am-ness.

Please know your subject content before opening your mouth.

You remind me of a little boy trying to do a mans job.

[Dontaskme]

If God is a mystical principle or being, and is non-dual, pervading all times, places, and things, then there will not be power or knowledge since both of these are dualistic concepts.


A has knowledge of B - then A is different from B. If god pervades everything, then there is nothing separate from itself to have knowledge of or power over.

Finally, someone who knows what they are talking about.

[Hobbes' Choice]

Making stuff up can subside, but what happens when it starts up again, who is going to stop that? that's like saying stop thinking, who is going to stop thoughts arising eh?

You might want to consider resorting to the truth.
But why would you do that, when you can live a fantasy?
If you knew anything about Zen you would not have made that ridiculous statement. Why not run along and find out about something. Knowing nothing might suit you, but for others, it just makes you look stupid.

Why get all mad with this fictional character named dontsakme, just because you don't understand what's being told here.

You have absolutely no idea what to say to my subject content so you push it away in ignorance. and then have the audacity to call me stupid, take a look in the mirror.

If you say you know, you don't. And the mind hates not knowing...it makes it feel rather redundant.

Like I said, run along now and learn! You might want to open a book in the near future.

[Hobbes' Choice]

Zen is counter ritual, counter dogma, counter scripture. It is about thinking (meditation). It has NO mystical content what ever.
It is closer to mindfulness than any formal religion.

Zen is real. It has no counter opposite other than itself, the fictional character you dummy.

''Mystic'' simply means a symbolic representation of I Am-ness.

And where did you pull that definition from? Out of your arse? Because it stinks.

Please know your subject content before opening your mouth.

You remind me of a little boy trying to do a mans job.

You can maintain that fantasy too if it helps.

[Immanuel Can]

You cannot deny or argue with the ''truth'' Immanuel Can....every one has it, because they are it. It's just that some don't know it, or have forgotten it.

And what, pray tell, is the source of this "forgetting"? What force causes these allegedly truth bearing entities called humans to be born so ignorant of their true wonderfulness?

[Dontaskme]

You cannot deny or argue with the ''truth'' Immanuel Can....every one has it, because they are it. It's just that some don't know it, or have forgotten it.

And what, pray tell, is the source of this "forgetting"? What force causes these allegedly truth bearing entities called humans to be born so ignorant of their true wonderfulness?

Well I suppose there's two sides to every story, so it depends what side one is on.

One side is the real unfettred non-conceptual blank page of pure beingness. And the other side is the unreal fettered conceptual array of letters and words.

But none of this really matters, since the story is in separable from the book.