Fighting for the ‘Soul of France,’ More Towns Ban a Bathing Suit: The Burkini

[Greta]

What you're doing is similar to this simpler example:

Joe says, "I'm against the death penalty."

Pete says, "You'd not feel that way if your wife/one of your kids were murdered."

Pete is assuming that Joe has formulated his view on the death penalty without thinking of situations where we'd be talking about a crime that affects him as personally as one can. That seems to me to imply that Pete believes that Joe hasn't thought about the issue very much at all, that Joe doesn't know how to philosophically approach thinking about an issue, or that Joe isn't very intelligent since he can't even imagine such a simple "difficult scenario" challenge to his view.

All one needs is an initial bias that directs subsequent investigations. That's just human.

Besides, Pete's probably right. Joe might counter that Pete wouldn't feel the same way about the issue if his own child was on trial for murder, say, after a one-off brain freeze during a stressful situation that was wildly out of character. Joe would most likely be right, too.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

So you don't have any actual opinion of your own. How pathetic.

Your reading comprehension problems are hilarious.

You did describe yourself as a 'relativist'.

[Terrapin Station]

You did describe yourself as a 'relativist'.

Haha, yeah that part was okay.

Re relativism, by the way, meanings/interpretations are relative to individuals.

[Kayla]

i am curious how many of the people ranting and raving against the burkini ever actually discussed the matter with a burkini wearing muslim woman

True, first hand evidence is always the best. However one burkini wearer's testimony is not a proper opinion survey.


Even a large enough survey of burkini wearers' opinions would not elicit enough evidence as to if or how much women who wear burkinis have oppressive menfolk.

translation from bullshit to english : no evidence could ever convince me

[vegetariantaxidermy]

i am curious how many of the people ranting and raving against the burkini ever actually discussed the matter with a burkini wearing muslim woman

True, first hand evidence is always the best. However one burkini wearer's testimony is not a proper opinion survey.


Even a large enough survey of burkini wearers' opinions would not elicit enough evidence as to if or how much women who wear burkinis have oppressive menfolk.

translation from bullshit to english : no evidence could ever convince me

If France doesn't want burkinis and burkas that's France's business isn't it? Perhaps you should start by cleaning up your own racist hell-hole of country before telling other countries how to conduct their affairs. France has 10 percent muslims. How many does the US have? It's the US that has turned the ME into one gigantic recruitment centre for radical islam, with everyone else having to pick up the pieces.

[Ansiktsburk]

What you're doing is similar to this simpler example:

Joe says, "I'm against the death penalty."

Pete says, "You'd not feel that way if your wife/one of your kids were murdered."

Pete is assuming that Joe has formulated his view on the death penalty without thinking of situations where we'd be talking about a crime that affects him as personally as one can. That seems to me to imply that Pete believes that Joe hasn't thought about the issue very much at all, that Joe doesn't know how to philosophically approach thinking about an issue, or that Joe isn't very intelligent since he can't even imagine such a simple "difficult scenario" challenge to his view.

All one needs is an initial bias that directs subsequent investigations. That's just human.

Besides, Pete's probably right. Joe might counter that Pete wouldn't feel the same way about the issue if his own child was on trial for murder, say, after a one-off brain freeze during a stressful situation that was wildly out of character. Joe would most likely be right, too.

Just curious here, guest we're thinking Texas here, like. If someone go into your house and kill some of your kids and you find the guy some hours later and beat him to death, would that really a crime where a death penalty could be considered? Guess not.

Death penalty is for bad guys.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Just curious here, guest we're thinking Texas here, like. If someone go into your house and kill some of your kids and you find the guy some hours later and beat him to death, would that really a crime where a death penalty could be considered? Guess not.

Death penalty is for bad guys.

Civilised countries have a system of justice with a trial (to the best of their ability), uncivilised ones have a system based on vengeance. There are plenty of non 'bad guys' who get the death penalty. Juries get it wrong all the time. Your own dear Dubya Bush deserves it. But will he get it? Don't make me laugh. He's too busy playing golf and enjoying life after screwing up the whole planet.

[Greta]

What you're doing is similar to this simpler example:

Joe says, "I'm against the death penalty."

Pete says, "You'd not feel that way if your wife/one of your kids were murdered."

Pete is assuming that Joe has formulated his view on the death penalty without thinking of situations where we'd be talking about a crime that affects him as personally as one can. That seems to me to imply that Pete believes that Joe hasn't thought about the issue very much at all, that Joe doesn't know how to philosophically approach thinking about an issue, or that Joe isn't very intelligent since he can't even imagine such a simple "difficult scenario" challenge to his view.

All one needs is an initial bias that directs subsequent investigations. That's just human.

Besides, Pete's probably right. Joe might counter that Pete wouldn't feel the same way about the issue if his own child was on trial for murder, say, after a one-off brain freeze during a stressful situation that was wildly out of character. Joe would most likely be right, too.

Just curious here, guest we're thinking Texas here, like. If someone go into your house and kill some of your kids and you find the guy some hours later and beat him to death, would that really a crime where a death penalty could be considered? Guess not.

Death penalty is for bad guys.

Sure. No point killing people are no threat to others. Why Texas? For the record, I've not been within 13,000kms of Texas in my life.

[Kayla]

If France doesn't want burkinis and burkas that's France's business isn't it?

i dont know if you noticed but this is a philosophy discussion forum. are you suggesting philosophers shoudl not discuss events in other countries?

Perhaps you should start by cleaning up your own racist hell-hole of country before telling other countries how to conduct their affairs. France has 10 percent muslims. How many does the US have? It's the US that has turned the ME into one gigantic recruitment centre for radical islam, with everyone else having to pick up the pieces.

how many logical fallacies did you just commit?

[vegetariantaxidermy]

how many logical fallacies did you just commit?

I wasn't aware that 'philolophy' prohibited saying something that's true. Hypocrisy is hypocrisy.

[thedoc]

True, first hand evidence is always the best. However one burkini wearer's testimony is not a proper opinion survey.

Even a large enough survey of burkini wearers' opinions would not elicit enough evidence as to if or how much women who wear burkinis have oppressive menfolk.

How valid is the testimony of a slave saying "My master is really kind to me." when the "master" is standing over them with a club. Or "I really want to wear a burka" when they know they will be beaten if they don't say it.

[Kayla]

How valid is the testimony of a slave saying "My master is really kind to me." when the "master" is standing over them with a club. Or "I really want to wear a burka" when they know they will be beaten if they don't say it.

i would like to note that the logic conclusion here is to make all muslim women legal minors, wards of the state

anyone here thinks this is a good idea

also, you are assuming as an argument the very matter that is under dispute - I think its called the 'putting cart before the horse' fallacy

do you have any evidence that the primary reason muslim women in areas where law does not require it wear islamic clothing is because they are being coerced by threats of physical violence

no one answered my quesiton - have you actually spoken to any muslim women about this - the answer seems to be ' i know it is true because i read it in breibart'

[Belinda]

True, first hand evidence is always the best. However one burkini wearer's testimony is not a proper opinion survey.

Even a large enough survey of burkini wearers' opinions would not elicit enough evidence as to if or how much women who wear burkinis have oppressive menfolk.

How valid is the testimony of a slave saying "My master is really kind to me." when the "master" is standing over them with a club. Or "I really want to wear a burka" when they know they will be beaten if they don't say it.

But there are Muslim women , and infidel women too, who genuinely want to adhere to ethnic traditional dress styles.

One particular problem with burkinis is that many uneducated religionists confuse ethnic clothing traditions with religious beliefs and even with political fanaticism. French people have reason to fear discontented Muslims and Islamic fanaticism.

Another even more specific problem with burkinis is that they are a modern version of ethnic total body covering which looks ostentatiously different from what most swimmers wear.

[thedoc]

But there are Muslim women , and infidel women too, who genuinely want to adhere to ethnic traditional dress styles.

I find it hard to believe that burkas are anything but a male dominance issue, there are many Muslims living in the US and I don't remember seeing any burkas here.

[thedoc]

no one answered my question - have you actually spoken to any Muslim women about this - the answer seems to be ' i know it is true because i read it in Breibart'

I would have to say that I have not spoken to any Muslims about this, even though I have spoken to a few Muslim men and women, but since no women were wearing burkas, there was no reason to ask about it. The women were wearing distinctive dress but I assumed that it was simply to be distinct from other women and not because they had to adhere to some dress code.

I had to look up Breibart to see what it was, it appears to be a conservative news source.