~ Where Do You Find Meaning in Your Suffering? ~

[henry quirk]

Speakin' only for me...

When I suffer, I look for ways to end that suffering, or minimize it, or manage it. Got no interest in making the suffering meaningful. A cancer, for example, is not an opportunity to 'go zen' but simply a godawful fuckin' problem to attack. I don't wanna learn from the disease, I wanna kill it. And, if I can't, then I wanna deny it as much of 'me' as possible.

“I have heard there are troubles of more than one kind. Some come from ahead and some come from behind. But I've bought a big bat. I'm all ready you see. Now my troubles are going to have troubles with me!” Dr. Seuss

[Terrapin Station]

The same things that ail you ail me & everyone else who is reading this philosophically important thread.

Well, so then you're not really suffering, because I'm not. I'm not in a mental state of suffering due to anything about my body. If I were to stub my toe or something, then yeah, but that pain doesn't last that long.

Also, my mind isn't static. Nothing that exists is. Static or not, though, it's not causing any suffering.

I think we know some of the answer to why the world is changing. For example, we know why mountains erode. But even if we didn't know that, it has no connection to suffering for me. And it seems odd to me that that would cause suffering in someone else. I would think that would suggest some sort of neurosis, some sort of psychological problem that maybe they should get counseling for if that's causing them suffering (rather than just being curious about it if they are).

Re dying, the knowledge of that shouldn't be causing you suffering. Again, counseling can help with that if it is causing you suffering. And when the moment arrives, it might not even cause you much suffering. You might not even realize it.

Also, by the way, I still wouldn't say that you're being specific. Specific is something like, "I'm suffering because I accidentally stabbed my hand with these really sharp scissors and it hurts like a bitch," or "I'm suffering because I keep having panic attacks where I feel like I'm about to die and I can't control it" or something like that.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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You are mixing physical pain with the more philosophical conception of suffering...






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[henry quirk]

Physical pain is real, reflecting a failing of the flesh.

Philosophical suffering is just melodramatic poop, sumthin' expected from children, but not adults.

In the first, a body fights and struggles and wins or loses; in the second, a body just grows up and moves on.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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I'm not going to argue a mute point.

Simply stated: You are alive. You have suffered. You will suffer in the future.


You have been hungry - food would be the meaning to/of your suffering...


You may have wished for the affection of a man that you were unable to have - that too is a source of suffering.

Each example is different YET EACH ARE EXAMPLES OF SUFFERING.


To say that you are not suffering or you have never suffered is a lie.








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[henry quirk]

...and move on.

[henry quirk]

EXAMPLES OF SUFFERING = Problems to solve or manage.

Handwringing, navel gazing, contemplation of hemmoroids: pussy work.

[Terrapin Station]

You are mixing physical pain with the more philosophical conception of suffering...

I'd say that suffering requires a state of psychological distress/significant discomfort, whether it's simply psychological, or whether it's precipitated by (other) physical pain or discomfort. Otherwise, what ridiculously vague thing are we talking about exactly?

[Terrapin Station]

You have been hungry

If hunger has ever amounted to suffering to you, and you haven't been in a situation where you've not been able to eat in many days and you're in physical danger due to malnutrition, then I'd say there's definitely something wrong with you that indicates psychological counseling if not medical attention (perhaps there's something very unusual about your digestive system or metabolism). Hunger shouldn't be anything like physical distress or significant discomfort, or anything negative whatsoever. It's just a feeling we get that prompts us to eat. What the heck would "suffering" even refer to, and what would be negative about it, if you're simply referring to something like hunger where it's not accompanied by significant psychological distress?

[Bill Wiltrack]

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Don't know what exactly you are attempting to say. You are rather rambling a bit but I appreciate your response none the less.

But, I have gone days without eating solid food.

So, it - it is suffering in a physical, emotional, and intellectual sense.


There are MANY other ways we suffer. And I am NOT discounting those...









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[Terrapin Station]

Bill, would you saythat suffering requires a state of psychological distress/significant discomfort?

[Hobbes' Choice]

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To live is to suffer, to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering.
~ Friedrich Nietsche ~

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Suffering is for chumps.

Life is pain, Get over it - get on with it. Stop complaining. Wait for the pain to subside, and then gat as much out of life as you can until it gets too painful, then take a break. shake and repeat!

What makes you think pain has to have meaning (except the obvious).
You drop a knife and you feel pain in your foot: meaning - you've got a knife in your foot! Solution take it out and don't drop a knife on your foot again.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of those depths.
~ Elisabeth Kubler-Ross ~






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[Terrapin Station]

I am determined to be cheerful and happy in whatever situation I may find myself. For I have learned that the greater part of our misery or unhappiness is determined not by our circumstance but by our disposition.

--Martha Washington

[Bill Wiltrack]

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...which is why I've NEVER quoted Martha Washington.




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