Have You Ever Met a Human Being?

[Greta]

Buddha seems to be raising the bar a tad high. If hardly anyone can qualify as "human", why bother with the term? Never mind poor old Australopithecus and Homo habilis.

Still, Buddha is right to note that humans are exceedingly rare. Most of the universe is not human, only an infinitesimally small percentage of it ... so far, until we take over *mwuhaha-ha!*. The same could be said for life itself. Even matter is rare in space.

Humans are obviously not divine, but we're no plague either. We are the future. Once dinosaurs ruled the Earth. Now it's our turn. Note that humans are the only way that any viable DNA is going to get from the Earth to other worlds*. Life wants to survive and propagate, and it will find a way if it can.


* barring the ludicrously small possibility of panspermia by microbes lying dormant for millions of years in pieces of the Earth dislodged by meteors.

[sthitapragya]

Sthit wrote:

You don't seem to realize that your glorified idea of humanity is as much of a myth as your God. There is no greatness to humanity. We are a plague on this earth and have proved it consistently enough that there can be no doubt about it. And whatever potential you keep harping about is just your refusal to see yourself for who you really are. As far as all other life on earth is concerned, we are monsters who are slowly but surely sending them all to extinction. There is really no bigger picture than that. And heaven help all other life forms if we can actually get in touch with our higher consciousness (which basically likes to kill children to just to make a point). Can you imagine the devastation we would wreak on earth if that happened?

The only way you will ever reach your potential is if you start apologizing to all other life forms for being born human and promising to do the least amount of harm to them before you die. I think they would be much happier than if you got in touch with your higher consciousness.

We first need to understand that we need to become as good as all other life forms on earth. We are not even that yet.

I agree. Since we are as we are, everything is as it is. Water seeks its own level. We really can't do anything. Regardless of the finest speeches and platitudes nothing will change. Apologizing to dogs doesn't help. They just want their food. Yes I do believe it is possible to change what we ARE and become human as Buddha suggests. You say no and keep arguing about what we should DO. I'm more concerned with what we ARE.

I told you. We are the plague on earth. And we are already human. There is no escaping that. Just because you do not like what you see around you does not mean you can rename us. This is what humans actually are. What you see around you. The rare ones are the ones who are not human.

We just need to get better at being human by stopping being the death of every other life form, instead of trying to glorify ourselves. Our intellect gives us a false sense of Godliness and nobility. We are not even close to it.

As Greta pointed out, the dinosaurs ruled the earth once. The did it for a very long time, close to 200 million years I think. We have been here for 1 million years and already we are creating a mass extinction. The dinosaurs survived because they managed to do so without destroying the ecosystem. We cannot seem to be able to do this basic thing which all other animals can so easily. Can you see the enormous lack of our knowledge and ability? First we need to get to the level of other animals. Then maybe we can strive to be noble or whatever you wish to be. But till then, it is just wishful denial of what we truly are.

Also you cannot become something without accepting what you are.

[Greta]

As Greta pointed out, the dinosaurs ruled the earth once. The did it for a very long time, close to 200 million years I think. We have been here for 1 million years and already we are creating a mass extinction. The dinosaurs survived because they managed to do so without destroying the ecosystem. We cannot seem to be able to do this basic thing which all other animals can so easily. Can you see the enormous lack of our knowledge and ability? First we need to get to the level of other animals. Then maybe we can strive to be noble or whatever you wish to be. But till then, it is just wishful denial of what we truly are.

I don't believe there is any way for empowered and intelligent beings to avoid dominating a planet the way we have done. A lot of the damage done, and the structures that are still causing damage, eg. fossil fuel industries, manifested when civilisation was much more ignorant of the effects on environment. Meanwhile, populations were always going to grow due to our degree of dominance, with inevitable results.

Humans can't be parasites because parasites don't build complex structures; they break more complex structures down into simpler ones. The rise of humanity looks to me more like the biosphere metamorphosing. Metamorphosis is an inherently destructive process. The biosphere has metamorphosed before with extinctions triggered by algae billions of years ago. Now it's doing it again.

Still, if our destruction is too rapid then the whole edifice may fall (and will probably deserve to). So, no matter which view one takes, action taken to slow environmental damage still remains urgent.

[sthitapragya]

As Greta pointed out, the dinosaurs ruled the earth once. The did it for a very long time, close to 200 million years I think. We have been here for 1 million years and already we are creating a mass extinction. The dinosaurs survived because they managed to do so without destroying the ecosystem. We cannot seem to be able to do this basic thing which all other animals can so easily. Can you see the enormous lack of our knowledge and ability? First we need to get to the level of other animals. Then maybe we can strive to be noble or whatever you wish to be. But till then, it is just wishful denial of what we truly are.

I don't believe there is any way for empowered and intelligent beings to avoid dominating a planet the way we have done. A lot of the damage done, and the structures that are still causing damage, eg. fossil fuel industries, manifested when civilisation was much more ignorant of the effects on environment. Meanwhile, populations were always going to grow due to our degree of dominance, with inevitable results.

Humans can't be parasites because parasites don't build complex structures; they break more complex structures down into simpler ones. The rise of humanity looks to me more like the biosphere metamorphosing. Metamorphosis is an inherently destructive process. The biosphere has metamorphosed before with extinctions triggered by algae billions of years ago. Now it's doing it again.

Still, if our destruction is too rapid then the whole edifice may fall (and will probably deserve to). So, no matter which view one takes, action taken to slow environmental damage still remains urgent.

Could it be that since we are the only empowered and intelligent species we know, we believe there is no other way? Whatever it maybe, even an accidental change like rapid industrialisation, we made the choice and we caused mass extinction. We cannot avoid the fact that as far as other species are concerned we are death personified. We are parasites whether we like it or not. We probably have the ability to recognise this and therefore change it, unlike a virus or a rat, but till we do change it, we are worse than rats because we knowingly made the choice to destroy other species.

[Greta]

Could it be that since we are the only empowered and intelligent species we know, we believe there is no other way? Whatever it maybe, even an accidental change like rapid industrialisation, we made the choice and we caused mass extinction. We cannot avoid the fact that as far as other species are concerned we are death personified. We are parasites whether we like it or not. We probably have the ability to recognise this and therefore change it, unlike a virus or a rat, but till we do change it, we are worse than rats because we knowingly made the choice to destroy other species.

The only way you can make the claim that humans are parasites is to also claim cyanobacteria to be a parasite during the Great Oxygenation Event, an extinction around 2.3 billion years ago http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronom ... ction.html

There's a few future scenarios, and each involves significant degradation of ecosystems and increased desertification:

1) A mass extinction that includes humans

2) A mass extinction with communities of survivalist humans remaining

3) as with #2, but with high tech, insulated, self-sufficient cities for the privileged

4) humanity changes its behaviour and become wise stewards of the planet and control population and consumption, with major ecosystems weakened but still surviving enough to bounce back quickly

5) aliens save us at the last minute akin to 2001: A Space Odyssey or Interstellar scenarios

I consider #4 and #5 to be laughably unlikely. Fantasy.

How do you see the probabilities? Have I missed any possibilities above? #4 is clearly the realms clutching at straws but included for the sake of completeness.

[Dalek Prime]

#6 is the best scenario, but highly unlikely. And it doesn't involve degradation of the environment, or desertification. It's also likely to be the most humane way for humanity to end.

http://www.vhemt.org

[Nick_A]

Sthit wrote:

I told you. We are the plague on earth. And we are already human. There is no escaping that. Just because you do not like what you see around you does not mean you can rename us. This is what humans actually are. What you see around you. The rare ones are the ones who are not human.

So you disagree with the Buddha. You must be a Hillary supporter. People here probably agree with you and believe we are human. What kind of silliness is the Buddha pushing? Don't blame the Buddha. He didn't have the chance to go to Harvard and get educated. But still I wonder; what would a human being be? What would they be like. What qualities would they have that us pre-humans lack but have the potential for? Now when they teach that in Harvard perhaps we can learn something meaningful.

[Dalek Prime]

Sthit wrote:

I told you. We are the plague on earth. And we are already human. There is no escaping that. Just because you do not like what you see around you does not mean you can rename us. This is what humans actually are. What you see around you. The rare ones are the ones who are not human.

So you disagree with the Buddha. You must be a Hillary supporter. People here probably agree with you and believe we are human. What kind of silliness is the Buddha pushing? Don't blame the Buddha. He didn't have the chance to go to Harvard and get educated. But still I wonder; what would a human being be? What would they be like. What qualities would they have that us pre-humans lack but have the potential for? Now when they teach that in Harvard perhaps we can learn something meaningful.

Oh, was the Buddha a Hillary supporter? And what's wrong with disagreeing with him? As to what a human is, look in the mirror.

[Nick_A]

D P wrote:

Oh, was the Buddha a Hillary supporter? And what's wrong with disagreeing with him? As to what a human is, look in the mirror.

Looking in a mirror doesn't help. A person must look inwardly and become capable of acquiring objective self knowledge. A human being would be a unified whole. I exist as an aggregate. A human being would be consistant and I'm a hypocrite. A human being would have conscious will and I react by desire. I have a ways to go before I could be considered human by Buddhist standards.

[Walker]

I have a ways to go before I could be considered human by Buddhist standards.

Certainly attachment to one’s limited understanding of Buddhism can obscure discovering what Buddha discovered.

[Dalek Prime]

D P wrote:

Oh, was the Buddha a Hillary supporter? And what's wrong with disagreeing with him? As to what a human is, look in the mirror.

Looking in a mirror doesn't help. A person must look inwardly and become capable of acquiring objective self knowledge. A human being would be a unified whole. I exist as an aggregate. A human being would be consistant and I'm a hypocrite. A human being would have conscious will and I react by desire. I have a ways to go before I could be considered human by Buddhist standards.

Been there, done that. Still never hurts to start with a mirror, both literal and metaphorical. Good luck with your search anyway.

[Greta]

#6 is the best scenario, but highly unlikely. And it doesn't involve degradation of the environment, or desertification. It's also likely to be the most humane way for humanity to end.

http://www.vhemt.org

Okay, #6 is a global Jim Jones scenario, which is basically another version of #1.

Human destruction scenarios open the way for the next most intelligent species to do exactly the same as us. Distant descendants of rats would seem a fair candidate. Maybe even naked mole-rats? Any hope that they would "do better" than us (descendants of a shrewlike mammal after the dinos' extinction) would surely be forlorn. I'd rather all the effort of civilising not be wasted.

[Dalek Prime]

#6 is the best scenario, but highly unlikely. And it doesn't involve degradation of the environment, or desertification. It's also likely to be the most humane way for humanity to end.

http://www.vhemt.org

Okay, #6 is a global Jim Jones scenario, which is basically another version of #1.

Human destruction scenarios open the way for the next most intelligent species to do exactly the same as us. Distant descendants of rats would seem a fair candidate. Maybe even naked mole-rats? Any hope that they would "do better" than us (descendants of a shrewlike mammal after the dinos' extinction) would surely be forlorn. I'd rather all the effort of civilising not be wasted.

No it's not. It's just not breeding, not killing extants. World of difference. As to another species possibly taking our place, not our issue. We correct the ones set before us.

[Nick_A]

Walker wrote: Walker wrote: Nick_A wrote:I have a ways to go before I could be considered human by Buddhist standards.
Certainly attachment to one’s limited understanding of Buddhism can obscure discovering what Buddha discovered.

True but if a person is not really human you rgewt end up as a hungry ghost. I see a lot of them in politics.

http://buddhism.about.com/od/tibetandei ... -Realm.htm

Updated May 11, 2016.
Hungry Ghosts have huge, empty stomachs, but their thin necks don't allow nourishment to pass. Food turns to fire and ash in their mouths.
Hungry Ghosts (Pretas) are pitable things. They are wasted creatures with huge, empty stomachs. Their necks are too thin to allow food to pass. So, they are constantly hungry.
Greed and jealousy lead to rebirth as a Hungry Ghost. The Hungry Ghost Realm often, but not always, is depicted between the Asura Realm and the Hell Realm. It is thought the karma of their lives was not quite bad enough for a rebirth in the Hell Realm but not good enough for the Asura Realm.
Psychologically, Hungry Ghosts are associated with addictions, compulsions and obsessions. People who have everything but always want more may be Hungry Ghosts

[Greta]

No it's not. It's just not breeding, not killing extants. World of difference. As to another species possibly taking our place, not our issue. We correct the ones set before us.

This "correction" seems akin to young adults killing themselves because they no longer relate to the things of their youth and feel worthless.

What about a little hope? We've only been down from the trees for a short time and evolution, and nature generally, seems to always have surprises. To have no hope for humans based on current evidence is like having no hope that a teen can grow to maturity. We may become more mature.

But never mind humans, antinatalism would posit even cyanobacteria as a negative influence because the extinction they triggered resulted in multicellular organisms (culminating in the current crop of critters, including us). If not for their "interference" then life could have pointlessly continued consuming itself over and over in mindless microbial pococurantism until the Sun finally put them to rest in a billion years' time.

I'm not keen, Davros. The endless savagery of nature with no end in sight, no hope that something less harsh can come of it. Now that the hope for something better is here, now you want to snuff it out before it has a chance to get its at together? Tough judge.