Truth is not found in mental chatter.

[Greta]

Since my head is an empty mirror ball these days- I have collected this piece of information for your perusal... from the non-copyrighted wellspring of knowledge aka the bio-logical inner net ...

''A human-being is a dynamic and marvelous manifestation of this creative Divine force. Keeping this awareness in our daily living experience creates a very high quality of mind. Over the millennium there has been a decline in this human awareness. This has led to the design of unsustainable societal systems. Problems of inadequate economic systems, unaffordable healthcare, uncontrollable pollution, growing joblessness, increasing social unrest, growing terrorism, and corruption have destabilized life on our beautiful planet.

The need to move society in a new direction has surfaced as a challenge for the current generation. Invoking the energy of Non-Duality empowers people to solve all societal problems effectively.''

''The planet faces today an unprecedented set of problems because of a serious crisis in human consciousness. If we don’t act with responsibility now humanity will soon be approaching threshold of unimaginable chaos, calamity, death and destruction. But there exists a timeless and lasting solution to address issues facing humankind. It derives from the notion of the power of ideas and the attributes of Non-Duality are so powerful that their effect upon the World will be most profound. The secret of solving the global and local problems lies in the awareness of Non-Duality.''

Yes, definitely learn some science. You are denying yourself so much fascination and new understandings - just for the sake of your internal narrative that is so fragile that your fear it will break if you get educated.

The anthropcentric pseudoscience you presented above is, as you would put it, "a nice story". Actually it's not nice either, being pointlessly short-term, human-centric and lacking in any attempt to understand the broader processes of change in the Earth. The problem is always the same on this forum and elsewhere - forgetting that humans are not separate or apart from the biosphere's system. That is because humans are so very very very very very very very very special - according to them.

Things are not what they seem!

I'm quite aware that "things are not as they seem". My guess is that things they are a whole lot less than they seem to everyone. If you find that your own little world works for you ATM, go for it.

[ken]

Saw this in an email today.

“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.”


― Howard Thurman

Bye the way, by coincidence, what do you think of this ... by Robert Thurman..not sure if they are related.

On the nature of Self.

''Eventually, the investigation leads you to realize that you are going to fail to find that hard-core identity of the self. You realize that it does not exist at your center in the way that it seems to. You have moments of feeling that you perhaps don’t exist at all, but you realize that that sense of nonexistence is also not itself a hard-core identity. As you go along, you must rely on the help of the wisdom literature to deal with this failure to be able to pin down any intrinsically identifiable mode of either existence or nonexistence. You must also take your time, and persevere without expecting spectacular breakthroughs, and feeling discouraged if none occur. Gradually, your sense of absoluteness begins to erode, while your sense of just being there relatively becomes more and more liberated.

You realize that identity is a construct, a relative fabrication, and you begin to understand objective selflessness. You look out at others and at the objects of the world, realizing that they too are more relativistic entities, with no hard-core identities either. Finally, you realize that this interdependent network of nonabsolute, relative beings and things is fluid and malleable, open for creative development. If it’s all a mutual construct, let’s make it more beautiful. Everything is open for transformation.''

It seems we are literally writing our reality as we go along. It maybe a farce, so lets make it a good farce ..
Humans have spent thousands of years immersed in our farces, completely oblivious to the fact that we're making it all up. Finally some of us are waking up and recognising that it's a mutual construct, or a collective fiction. Will enough people wake up in time so we can start writing a better plotline before we or nature wipes us out?

If human beings wipe themselves out, then that is also the same as Nature wiping them out. Human beings are a part of nature, human beings are NOT apart from Nature. If human beings are wiped out, by their own doing, then that is just Nature "deciding" that that species was inoperable, incapable, unworthy, unnecessary, unwanted, or any of the other words that Nature would choose when It decides to remove a species, from It Self, which is attempting to go against the natural state and order of things. Just like any other animal or microbe or insect or virus species that tries to and does over power it's host, that species will be wiped out, naturally.

i think enough people will wake up in time, otherwise I would not be here learning how to find the right words/language to express how, with change, EVERYONE could live together in peace and harmony.

[Dontaskme]

If human beings wipe themselves out, then that is also the same as Nature wiping them out. Human beings are a part of nature, human beings are NOT apart from Nature. If human beings are wiped out, by their own doing, then that is just Nature "deciding" that that species was inoperable, incapable, unworthy, unnecessary, unwanted, or any of the other words that Nature would choose when It decides to remove a species, from It Self, which is attempting to go against the natural state and order of things. Just like any other animal or microbe or insect or virus species that tries to and does over power it's host, that species will be wiped out, naturally.

i think enough people will wake up in time, otherwise I would not be here learning how to find the right words/language to express how, with change, EVERYONE could live together in peace and harmony.

What will be will be. It is at it is.

It's all much a do about nothing anyway.

There is nothing here but the imputed concepts of a mind that has never existed... it's all smoke and mirrors.

May the farce be with you!

[Dontaskme]

The problem is always the same on this forum and elsewhere - forgetting that humans are not separate or apart from the biosphere's system.

Get out of your brain and let it do the solving.



How to get out of your brain....see below

[Greta]

As a former musician and cartoonist who's also worked in digital art, graphic design and web design and dabbled with short stories, I don't think I need your advice as to how to tap into imagination.

How stupid do you have to be to think that people here aren't aware of TM and the claims around it? "After TM" brain scans have been going around the web for years. Your continual celebration of ignorance is unbalanced, retrograde, trendy, shallow and, sadly, this anti-intellectual attitude seems to be very common in the US these days.

Please. Get an education.

[Dontaskme]

As a former musician and cartoonist who's also worked in digital art, graphic design and web design and dabbled with short stories, I don't think I need your advice as to how to tap into imagination.

How stupid do you have to be to think that people here aren't aware of TM and the claims around it? "After TM" brain scans have been going around the web for years. Your continual celebration of ignorance is unbalanced, retrograde, trendy, shallow and, sadly, this anti-intellectual attitude seems to be very common in the US these days.

Please. Get an education.

I'll stop giving you advice.. if you stop giving me advice.

I don't need an education... I'm self taught, and very good at what I do-n't do, and very very very very very knowledgable in what I do-n't know.

But I don't expect you to understand that.

So be it.

[Dontaskme]

How stupid do you have to be to think that people here aren't aware of TM and the claims around it? "After TM" brain scans have been going around the web for years. Your continual celebration of ignorance is unbalanced, retrograde, trendy, shallow and, sadly, this anti-intellectual attitude seems to be very common in the US these days.

Please. Get an education.

That which appears to transcend itself never transcended, that's the whole point of what I'm talking about. Why would one try to get out of what one was never in ..in the first place..Transcendental mediation is evil, it implies there are two. There is not.
The self cannot transcend itself because there isn't one. We can't get out of what we were never in. And we can't get in what we were never out of.

So what good is an education, what will I do with that except make some money, or to pretend I'm clever. Do animals get them selves educated? did the universe have to get itself a Phd in how to build itself? Is anything going to change if I get an education, what will change..? do you think the world is a better place for being educated...look around...I don't see a healthy world do you? I see a very sick world.

Life is suffering full stop...as soon as stuff is born it is dying, decaying, rotting, declining, in the exact same moment...nothing lives...period!!! the dead ones are the lucky ones because they have no knowledge they are dead...who gives a fuck about knowledge!!!

'The Aristotelians (and Renaissance writers) had the idea of the sublunary sphere, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub... where everything was subject to birth, death, disease, destruction, constant change which forced it back into its constituent elements; and the superlunary sphere where nothing changed. God inhabited the latter.''

[Lacewing]

i think enough people will wake up in time, otherwise I would not be here learning how to find the right words/language to express how, with change, EVERYONE could live together in peace and harmony.

Do you realize that this "effort"... this goal... is not new? People from all walks of life and belief systems and perspectives will say that their efforts are intended to wake people up to "the truth". And it has been going on for eons. Whose truth? What truth? What is this "truth" that we, ourselves, must wake ourselves up to? Ask a lot of people, and you'll get a lot of answers. Many ideas of how to do it "right". Many ideas of what "it is".

And... still, we keep looking for NEW, UNIQUE words and ideas to express it and accomplish it... at least based on our perspective of what "it is" and what is needed... and I suspect such perspectives could keep on expanding. Two hundred years from now, there will likely be a new common level of supposed wakefulness/awareness, and there will still be those insisting that we need to awaken further. And on it goes. Is there even an end to reach? Why do we need that? What would truly happen when we get there?

What would happen if we stopped thinking that this is "wrong"? What would that feel like? What would we do with it then?

[Lacewing]

Why would one try to get out of what one was never in ..in the first place.

Well, we're doing it all the time, aren't we? Just like we try to get in what we've never been outside of. Why do we think there are "outs" and "ins"? Pretty much everything we think and do here is based on ideas of separation, isn't it? People just pick different things to separate out, and then argue over those being the right or wrong things to separate out.

So what good is an education, what will I do with that except make some money, or to pretend I'm clever.

Well, those are TWO options. There are many more... including, for any of us, the potential of: learning how to communicate more broadly, becoming aware of more concepts that people may be operating by, having more tools for reasoning and debating, etc. There will also be people who identify themselves so completely with their education that they stop exploring beyond it. Anything is possible with anything, right?

I'd like to point out that I did not continue my formal education beyond high school -- and I had no interest in doing so. As a result, I cannot express/argue on some topics as I would like to. However, I am not arguing for or against education (here) other than I think it depends on what you want to do in life. If YOU separate it out as not valuable, that is your choice... it is not an ultimate truth about education.

Is anything going to change if I get an education, what will change..?

Depends on the person -- it's another tool for expanding awareness, which could be useful depending on what you're trying to accomplish or argue or show people... and depending on the concepts/language that those people might use. You can't just walk into any tribe and expect everyone to speak (and accept) the same set of concepts, right? People who really want to exchange ideas and awareness, learn how to connect in many ways.

do you think the world is a better place for being educated...look around...I don't see a healthy world do you? I see a very sick world.

Doesn't this seem like an extreme stance to take? Education isn't the root of evil. Education is just one more aspect of this "reality/world" we are experiencing. We can use and abuse it in many ways. It's no more or less of an illusion or disruption than anything else.

Life is suffering full stop...as soon as stuff is born it is dying, decaying, rotting, declining, in the exact same moment...nothing lives...period!!! the dead ones are the lucky ones because they have no knowledge they are dead...who gives a fuck about knowledge!!!

Is this one of the informing pillars of your foundation? Eek!

[Harbal]

I'm self taught,

Yes, that's rather obvious.

[Dontaskme]

Why would one try to get out of what one was never in ..in the first place.

Well, we're doing it all the time, aren't we? Just like we try to get in what we've never been outside of. Why do we think there are "outs" and "ins"? Pretty much everything we think and do here is based on ideas of separation, isn't it? People just pick different things to separate out, and then argue over those being the right or wrong things to separate out.

So what good is an education, what will I do with that except make some money, or to pretend I'm clever.

Well, those are TWO options. There are many more... including, for any of us, the potential of: learning how to communicate more broadly, becoming aware of more concepts that people may be operating by, having more tools for reasoning and debating, etc. There will also be people who identify themselves so completely with their education that they stop exploring beyond it. Anything is possible with anything, right?

I'd like to point out that I did not continue my formal education beyond high school -- and I had no interest in doing so. As a result, I cannot express/argue on some topics as I would like to. However, I am not arguing for or against education (here) other than I think it depends on what you want to do in life. If YOU separate it out as not valuable, that is your choice... it is not an ultimate truth about education.

Is anything going to change if I get an education, what will change..?

Depends on the person -- it's another tool for expanding awareness, which could be useful depending on what you're trying to accomplish or argue or show people... and depending on the concepts/language that those people might use. You can't just walk into any tribe and expect everyone to speak (and accept) the same set of concepts, right? People who really want to exchange ideas and awareness, learn how to connect in many ways.

do you think the world is a better place for being educated...look around...I don't see a healthy world do you? I see a very sick world.

Doesn't this seem like an extreme stance to take? Education isn't the root of evil. Education is just one more aspect of this "reality/world" we are experiencing. We can use and abuse it in many ways. It's no more or less of an illusion or disruption than anything else.

Life is suffering full stop...as soon as stuff is born it is dying, decaying, rotting, declining, in the exact same moment...nothing lives...period!!! the dead ones are the lucky ones because they have no knowledge they are dead...who gives a fuck about knowledge!!!

Is this one of the informing pillars of your foundation? Eek!

Lacewing... this thread is not about the story of I ...it is about the I without the object of i which is just an illusory appearance in I

This thread is about what we already are prior to the story we write about ourselves.

dontaskme in not in story anymore, I'm in the world but not of it...i understand what you are saying, but do you understand what I'm saying...I'm saying the following.....

‘’ In this world there is no man, there is no woman. There is no person, self or consciousness.
Man and woman are merely imputed and have no essence. Thus, the minds of worldly beings are mistaken. ‘’

If you would like me to explain what is meant in the quote above I will....try and keep to the subject and not blast me with illusory knowledge.

You might then wonder why I talk about the story sometimes in this thread, well it is because I am talking from the perspective of awareness who looks on at the story appearing within it..in detachment may I add...I'm basically not the story but I am relating to the story and discussing the condition my un-condition is in for the sake of communication with myself...aka illusory other...aka lacewing's story appearing in me awareness.

[sthitapragya]

Why would one try to get out of what one was never in ..in the first place.

Well, we're doing it all the time, aren't we? Just like we try to get in what we've never been outside of. Why do we think there are "outs" and "ins"? Pretty much everything we think and do here is based on ideas of separation, isn't it? People just pick different things to separate out, and then argue over those being the right or wrong things to separate out.

So what good is an education, what will I do with that except make some money, or to pretend I'm clever.

Well, those are TWO options. There are many more... including, for any of us, the potential of: learning how to communicate more broadly, becoming aware of more concepts that people may be operating by, having more tools for reasoning and debating, etc. There will also be people who identify themselves so completely with their education that they stop exploring beyond it. Anything is possible with anything, right?

I'd like to point out that I did not continue my formal education beyond high school -- and I had no interest in doing so. As a result, I cannot express/argue on some topics as I would like to. However, I am not arguing for or against education (here) other than I think it depends on what you want to do in life. If YOU separate it out as not valuable, that is your choice... it is not an ultimate truth about education.

Is anything going to change if I get an education, what will change..?

Depends on the person -- it's another tool for expanding awareness, which could be useful depending on what you're trying to accomplish or argue or show people... and depending on the concepts/language that those people might use. You can't just walk into any tribe and expect everyone to speak (and accept) the same set of concepts, right? People who really want to exchange ideas and awareness, learn how to connect in many ways.

do you think the world is a better place for being educated...look around...I don't see a healthy world do you? I see a very sick world.

Doesn't this seem like an extreme stance to take? Education isn't the root of evil. Education is just one more aspect of this "reality/world" we are experiencing. We can use and abuse it in many ways. It's no more or less of an illusion or disruption than anything else.

Life is suffering full stop...as soon as stuff is born it is dying, decaying, rotting, declining, in the exact same moment...nothing lives...period!!! the dead ones are the lucky ones because they have no knowledge they are dead...who gives a fuck about knowledge!!!

Is this one of the informing pillars of your foundation? Eek!

Lace, in our country we have a saying: "don't give a monkey a tree."

[Dontaskme]

''Life is suffering full stop...''

Is this one of the informing pillars of your foundation? Eek!

When watching after yourself, you watch after others. When watching after others, you watch after yourself. The root of suffering is attachment.

To your own self be true. KNOW YOUR SELF Be your own best friend, lover, teacher.



Do not go by revelation;
Do not go by tradition;
Do not go by hearsay;
Do not go on the authority of sacred texts;
Do not go on the grounds of pure logic;
Do not go by a view that seems rational;
Do not go by reflecting on mere appearances;
Do not go along with a considered view because you agree with it;
Do not go along on the grounds that the person is competent;
Do not go along because "the recluse is our teacher."

when you yourselves know: These things are unwholesome, these things are blameworthy; these things are censured by the wise; and when undertaken and observed, these things lead to harm and ill, abandon them...


when you know for yourselves: These are wholesome; these things are not blameworthy; these things are praised by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness, having undertaken them, abide in them.

YOU ARE ALREADY THIS PERFECT PRESENCE HERE NOW WHERE YOU'VE NEVER ENTERED OR LEFT

IDENTIFICATION WITH YOUR STORY IS SUFFERING.... letting go of attachment to illusion and being your real self is your natural Buddha nature.

Buddha is just another name for NOTHING & EVERYTHING

[Lacewing]

Lacewing... this thread is not about the story of I ...it is about the I without the object of i which is just an illusory appearance in I

I'm not sure why you're telling me all of this. I was responding directly to questions you posed about the usefulness of education. Are you saying that you're above being a human, and that's why you don't need education... and that's what your questions were somehow addressing? Because if so, you seemed to be getting a bit emotionally unglued like a human. It's confusing, you know, when people can't tell what channel you're on and/or you keep switching between them.

but do you understand what I'm saying...I'm saying the following.....
‘’ In this world there is no man, there is no woman. There is no person, self or consciousness.
Man and woman are merely imputed and have no essence. Thus, the minds of worldly beings are mistaken. ‘’

Sure, I can understand that. My response is "So what?"

I'm experiencing (and sometimes basking in) the human experience while also realizing that it is a dream/projection/whatever-you-want-to-call-it. I don't care. I am able to change to all sorts of channels... and I don't spend a lot of energy trying to identify (or not) with any of them.

Please just answer simply and directly as to why you take issue with my direct responses to your questions. Was I misunderstanding what you were saying?

[Dontaskme]

I was responding directly to questions you posed about the usefulness of education. Are you saying that you're above being a human, and that's why you don't need education... and that's what your questions were somehow addressing? Because if so, you seemed to be getting a bit emotionally unglued like a human. It's confusing, you know, when people can't tell what channel you're on and/or you keep switching between them.

Your the one who's confused not me, if you can't keep on topic talk to someone else.

I'm not talking about being above others and not needing an education ..where on earth have you got that idea from, seriously how many more times do you want me to tell you that ....

THIS THREAD IS ABOUT TRUTH IS NOT FOUND IN MENTAL CHATTER.

Not about education. Why the heck are we suddenly talking about education now???

Honestly lacewing, your completely losing the plot of this thread, please stop talking to me unless you've got something relative to the topic thread to discuss, your starting to give me a headache.

How about we just start again, forget what's been discussed in the past and lets just start from scratch...that's if you want to, if not then that's fine by me, just make up your mind one way or the other...I will be happy to answer any question you have...but you will not be asking me, you will be asking the one that knows all the answers. The one who asks the question is the one who knows the answer else the question would never arise in the first place.

Now, if you have a question regarding the thread title...TRUTH IS NOT FOUND IN MENTAL CHATTER.

Please fire away...