Abortion is murder, or is it?

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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Abortion is murder, or is it?

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Ferdi wrote:This emotional and religious issue, driven by popular beliefs, is of such importance that politicians use it to swing votes.
Google defines “murder” as “the crime of killing another person deliberately . . . . “ .
A foetus is not a “person” or an independent individual, it is an individual-under-construction. A healthy foetus is indeed “alive” evident from its movements and its heart-beat. It is a popular but mistaken belief that a foetus is a new human being. Beliefs serve some purpose, but now we can place a man on the moon and ingrained beliefs need to be questioned. Something can be “alive” but may not have “life”. This is the crucial point in the abortion issue.
A couple of observations may demonstrate the difference between “being alive” and “having life”, viz. at Funerals and in Organ transplanting.
At funerals we realise that the departed “individual” has lost its “life”, leaving behind its “life”-less body. The corpse has to be disposed of, because it starts to deteriorate. It will disintegrate, fall apart and return to “dust” from which it was constructed in its mother’s womb. The corpse goes putrid because its cells, although life-less, remain alive for the decomposition process; to return ashes to ashes. The corpse is disposed-of one way or another.
In organ transplanting parts are removed from a corpse, a body without life, but still alive for a while. The parts are kept ‘alive’ on ice for transport, and then connected to ’life’ in another body to restart their intended function. While the cells of a corpse are life-less, they remain alive for the decomposition process.
Similarly, a foetus is alive, while not yet having its own life. A foetus is growing but is not a new individual until it receives ‘life’ at birth, which can be premature. Killing a baby that has ’life’ could be murder or euthanasia; no life, no murder.
Conclusion: Abortion is NOT murder.
Are you a male Ferdi?

If you are, it doesn't matter what you think. Women carry babies, it literally taxes their bodies to the point that it can actually kill them to deliver, add to that the barbaric way some hospitals and doctors perform the delivery. It's only ever been their choice. I used to be an anti abortionist, now I'm a pro choice anti abortionist. Murder or not, outlaw war instead! Larry Flint had a very valid point, what's more obscene, humans having sex, which has been natural since our existence, or gutting someone because of our selfish desires for more whatever. Many anti abortionists kill doctors because they supposedly kill babies, contradiction? If a particular female believes it's murder, it's only murder for her. If another believes it's not murder, it's only not murder for her, anything less and females are slaves to selfish people, believing they are gods, which is totally evil! I get so sick and tired of warped psyches telling others what they should or should not do, in the name of their invisible gods, when according to them he weighs you in the end, sending you to hell if he so deems. In such a case, the contract is between their god and them and no one else. To hell with the would be gods of the world, lets string them all up, for their blasphemy, in the name of our god! Absurd! :lol:
Dalek Prime
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Re: Abortion is murder, or is it?

Post by Dalek Prime »

For that matter, who cares what anyone thinks. It's the woman's life and body. 'Up' the rest of you. The foetus is better off not having to live amongst this retarded species, anyway.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Abortion is murder, or is it?

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Immanuel Can wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Immanuel Can wrote:
Let's leave it there.
That would be immoral.


Hi, Hobbes.

Suspending it is not the same as discontinuing. My interlocutor has the option of asking to continue, or not; It's up to him, as you can see. That's what "let's" implies. It's an invitation to consensus. We can both take a step back, look at where we are, and make a decision whether to go forward and where to go next. But there is no hurry.

Now, certainly there is a time and a place for every conversation. However, politeness requires that both conversationalists be happy to persist. Otherwise, philosophical discussion turns into a petty game of winning and losing -- and nobody ever really wins at that.

Anyhow, I think that's the right way to look at it.
You should try to answer a question rather than run away.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Abortion is murder, or is it?

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:Sanctimonious kunt.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Abortion is murder, or is it?

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Dalek Prime wrote:For that matter, who cares what anyone thinks. It's the woman's life and body. 'Up' the rest of you. The foetus is better off not having to live amongst this retarded species, anyway.
I don't think you get to say if the foetus is better off or not. It has no choice. It's up to the woman to carry the fucking thing. Once it is born, if it is born that is. Then it enjoys the rights of any human. Let's hope the mother actually wants the child, rather than being forced by idiots like I. Kunt to bear an unwanted baby.

I imagine that I. Kunt's home is full of orphans, waifs and strays, and that he is putting his money where his mouth is by contributing a good proportion of his income to Save the Children.
Nick_A
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Re: Abortion is murder, or is it?

Post by Nick_A »

Abortion cannot be murder if the fetus is eaten. Then it is like a cow. Who murders a cow?

http://theseoultimes.com/ST/?url=/ST/db ... p?idx=7333
.............The report went on. A town in the southern province of Canton (Guangdong) is now in focus. Chinese folks there are enjoying baby herbal soup to increase overall health and stamina and the power of sexual performance in particular.

The cost in Chinese currency is approximately Rs 2,000 (which is about US$4,000).

A factory manager was interviewed and he testified that it is effective because he is a frequent customer.

It is a delicacy whereby expensive herbs are added to boil the baby with chicken meat for eight hours.

He pointed to his second wife next to him. She is 19 years old. The 62-year-old man testified that they have sex everyday.

After waiting for a couple of weeks he took the reporter to the restaurant when he was informed by the restaurant manager that the spare rib soup (local code for baby soup) was now available..........
I can see the sales pitch now: With baby soup, who needs viagra?
Dalek Prime
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Re: Abortion is murder, or is it?

Post by Dalek Prime »

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Dalek Prime wrote:For that matter, who cares what anyone thinks. It's the woman's life and body. 'Up' the rest of you. The foetus is better off not having to live amongst this retarded species, anyway.

I don't think you get to say if the foetus is better off or not.
It has no choice. It's up to the woman to carry the fucking thing. Once it is born, if it is born that is. Then it enjoys the rights of any human. Let's hope the mother actually wants the child, rather than being forced by idiots like I. Kunt to bear an unwanted baby.

I imagine that I. Kunt's home is full of orphans, waifs and strays, and that he is putting his money where his mouth is by contributing a good proportion of his income to Save the Children.
Sure I do. It's just that my say carries no import, though it is indeed better off. I would save it a lifetime of aggravation, ending in death anyway. Heck, I would spare the mother, et al, generations back, the same problem.

As to the rest, you're just repeating what I already believe and said, as though I argued against it. I don't get you sometimes, Hobbes. You do that often.
Ultimate Infinity
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Re: Abortion is murder, or is it?

Post by Ultimate Infinity »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Walker wrote:Life begins at conception.

It can be witnessed as a flash of light.

Form your own inferences about what happens after that.
Of course, one of our resident kristian nut-jobs would have to put their spoke in. It doesn't matter when 'life' begins. You can't force women to be baby-making machines any more, and you can't stop people from having sex either. Boo hoo hoo to your fucked up kristian 'values'.
Wow. You really don't know much about Christianity do you? I attended a Catholic school and was given the privelige of going to Washington, D.C. for the March for life. It was life changing. In addition I had to write a an essay in about abortion in which we looked and both sides of the argument. From these two experiences I can tell you this isn't even a real argument. The "fetus" has a heart and can feel pain by the time almost every single abortion takes place. Enough said. You don't have to be religious to realize that is life. But the way you are most wrong is in the way Christians look at. Prolife is prowoman.it is even the motto of the pro life effort. Abortion ruins woman's lives emotionally and physically. And also if you choose to have sex without wanting a child be smart I mean really the purpose of sex is to reproduce so use your brain. And in cases of rape it is tough but that child doesn't deserve to die either and adoption is one of the greatest things in the world. Finally have you noticed that when someone is expecting and they plan on having the child they say it is a baby but when they are going to abort it is a fetus. Huh.
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Nick_A
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Re: Abortion is murder, or is it?

Post by Nick_A »

Hobbers wrote:
don't think you get to say if the foetus is better off or not. It has no choice. It's up to the woman to carry the fucking thing. Once it is born, if it is born that is. Then it enjoys the rights of any human. Let's hope the mother actually wants the child, rather than being forced by idiots like I. Kunt to bear an unwanted baby.
I don't see the problem. Abort the unwanted fetus and eat it. It isn't like it is being killed for sport. Then it is serving a useful nutritional purpose for society. Who can argue with that?
Dalek Prime
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Re: Abortion is murder, or is it?

Post by Dalek Prime »

Nick_A wrote:Hobbers wrote:
don't think you get to say if the foetus is better off or not. It has no choice. It's up to the woman to carry the fucking thing. Once it is born, if it is born that is. Then it enjoys the rights of any human. Let's hope the mother actually wants the child, rather than being forced by idiots like I. Kunt to bear an unwanted baby.
I don't see the problem. Abort the unwanted fetus and eat it. It isn't like it is being killed for sport. Then it is serving a useful nutritional purpose for society. Who can argue with that?
I'll pack your lunch myself, Nick. Yum yum, open wide! There's a lad!
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Abortion is murder, or is it?

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Dalek Prime wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Dalek Prime wrote:For that matter, who cares what anyone thinks. It's the woman's life and body. 'Up' the rest of you. The foetus is better off not having to live amongst this retarded species, anyway.

I don't think you get to say if the foetus is better off or not.
It has no choice. It's up to the woman to carry the fucking thing. Once it is born, if it is born that is. Then it enjoys the rights of any human. Let's hope the mother actually wants the child, rather than being forced by idiots like I. Kunt to bear an unwanted baby.

I imagine that I. Kunt's home is full of orphans, waifs and strays, and that he is putting his money where his mouth is by contributing a good proportion of his income to Save the Children.
Sure I do. It's just that my say carries no import, though it is indeed better off. I would save it a lifetime of aggravation, ending in death anyway. Heck, I would spare the mother, et al, generations back, the same problem.

As to the rest, you're just repeating what I already believe and said, as though I argued against it. I don't get you sometimes, Hobbes. You do that often.
You need to switch your brain from adversarial mode to recognising when a person is agreeing. Also the texts are open to all, so some parts of my comments are not necessarily directed towards you.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Abortion is murder, or is it?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Nick_A wrote:Hobbers wrote:
don't think you get to say if the foetus is better off or not. It has no choice. It's up to the woman to carry the fucking thing. Once it is born, if it is born that is. Then it enjoys the rights of any human. Let's hope the mother actually wants the child, rather than being forced by idiots like I. Kunt to bear an unwanted baby.
I don't see the problem. Abort the unwanted fetus and eat it. It isn't like it is being killed for sport. Then it is serving a useful nutritional purpose for society. Who can argue with that?
Recycling.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Abortion is murder, or is it?

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Nick_A wrote:Hobbers wrote:
don't think you get to say if the foetus is better off or not. It has no choice. It's up to the woman to carry the fucking thing. Once it is born, if it is born that is. Then it enjoys the rights of any human. Let's hope the mother actually wants the child, rather than being forced by idiots like I. Kunt to bear an unwanted baby.
I don't see the problem. Abort the unwanted fetus and eat it. It isn't like it is being killed for sport. Then it is serving a useful nutritional purpose for society. Who can argue with that?
I can. Eating human flesh can have unwanted biological and social repercussions. When you granny died, why did you not eat her?

And 'the' problem [which you claim you "can't see"] is that there are millions of unwanted children world-wide. Unwanted children tend to be poor at social skills, do badly in school, and make poor parents.

Not seeing the obvious problem is a symptom of your blind denial
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Abortion is murder, or is it?

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Nick_A wrote:

I don't see the problem.
Just about sums you up I think.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Abortion is murder, or is it?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Nick_A wrote:Hobbers wrote:
don't think you get to say if the foetus is better off or not. It has no choice. It's up to the woman to carry the fucking thing. Once it is born, if it is born that is. Then it enjoys the rights of any human. Let's hope the mother actually wants the child, rather than being forced by idiots like I. Kunt to bear an unwanted baby.
I don't see the problem. Abort the unwanted fetus and eat it. It isn't like it is being killed for sport. Then it is serving a useful nutritional purpose for society. Who can argue with that?
I can. Eating human flesh can have unwanted biological and social repercussions. When you granny died, why did you not eat her?

And 'the' problem [which you claim you "can't see"] is that there are millions of unwanted children world-wide. Unwanted children tend to be poor at social skills, do badly in school, and make poor parents.

Not seeing the obvious problem is a symptom of your blind denial
It's cannibalism. I'm sceptical about the article. The site looked pretty dodgy. Probably more bullshit 'pro-life' propaganda.
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