Abortion is murder, or is it?

[Hobbes' Choice]

Vege wrote:

The 'pro-life' movement isn't pro-life at all. It's anti-women. It's all about controlling and punishing women.

Anti-women??? Yes this is the same vege who condones the abuse of women by Sharia law by supporting the silence directed at it by feminists. You can't write this stuff. In your face hypocrisy

Nick cannot hesitate to make a complete arse of himself.

[Nick_A]

Walker wrote:

Life begins at conception.

Have you noticed how the expression "respect for life" is appreciated differently by secular atheists than believers in the Source? I value life as a cycle. How does one value the cycle connecting conception and death from a human perspective? Abortion is just an intentional interruption of the cycle. The secularists here do not care about the life cycle and what it means to respect it. Life for them is respected by how it serves society and a woman's whims. It begins when secularists believe it is alive enough. If a woman doesn't want it, just kill it. The value of life begins when society respects it as worthy of life.

It won't be long before secularists will figure out that babies are an annoyance when they are not wanted. This totally dependent being feeding off of society is just a disturbance to society. That being the case a woman should be given a two week trial period after birth to determine if the baby is worth keeping or should be terminated. There is no objective respect for life. This ideal has been replaced by secularists as respect for convenience.

[Walker]

Walker wrote:

Life begins at conception.

Have you noticed how the expression "respect for life" is appreciated differently by secular atheists than believers in the Source? I value life as a cycle. How does one value the cycle connecting conception and death from a human perspective? Abortion is just an intentional interruption of the cycle. The secularists here do not care about the life cycle and what it means to respect it. Life for them is respected by how it serves society and a woman's whims. It begins when secularists believe it is alive enough. If a woman doesn't want it, just kill it. The value of life begins when society respects it as worthy of life.

It won't be long before secularists will figure out that babies are an annoyance when they are not wanted. This totally dependent being feeding off of society is just a disturbance to society. That being the case a woman should be given a two week trial period after birth to determine if the baby is worth keeping or should be terminated. There is no objective respect for life. This ideal has been replaced by secularists as respect for convenience.

In addition to life begins at conception, what’s also obvious is that rational attempts to discuss any controversial topic ignites an emotional crap-storm, under certain conditions.

Life constantly changes form between the flash of conception and lights-out.

To speak of abortion is not to judge people. Life is hard.

I once heard a Christian preacher say something interesting on the radio, while tuning the analog reception dial. He said that in all cases of pregnancy including rape and incest a woman should deliver the child.

And I thought, WTF.

His rationale was this. Only when the causes of unwanted pregnancies are no longer hidden will the causes of unwanted pregnancy end. When the effects of the causes of unwanted pregnancy are brought to the forefront of societal attention, and not intellectually PC-whitewashed with language, then the causes of unwanted pregnancies can no longer be hidden from attention, and the causes will thus end.

Very conservative view, and these days such conservatism is radical. It obviously sacrifices the will of the individual for the evolution to non-killing, of society.

Validation of the effects of actions based on such a view would require scientific study. Until proven to be so, the preacher’s hypothesis may well be inconsistent with human nature.


The one you write to exists in your mind.
The one who writes to you does not.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Here's an idea. How's about we just mind our own business, and leave women's bodies to themselves? I'm so sick of people trying to control them. Honestly, men should get bugger all say in what a woman does with her life or her body. You seed them, that's it.

Exactly. But perverted kristians like nick and yios are obsessed with sex and women's bodies and controlling them. The kristian church has always had an unhealthy obsession with sex, not to mention vicious misogyny. Women have always tried to get rid of unwanted pregnancies. It just happens to be safe now, and that makes kristians furious.

[Harbal]

In order to constitute an action as "murder", the victim has to be "alive", heart beating, being have a developed brain, etc.

Murder is a legal term. Something can only be murder if the law defines it as such.

[henry quirk]

"You seed them, that's it."

Works for me.

In the unlikely event I knock up some broad and -- instead of aborting -- she keeps it and then comes lookin' for me to support her, I'll tell her 'nope, I don't owe you jack...your body, your choice, your baby (to finance)'.

[Harbal]

Have you noticed how the expression "respect for life" is appreciated differently by secular atheists than believers in the Source? I value life as a cycle. How does one value the cycle connecting conception and death from a human perspective? Abortion is just an intentional interruption of the cycle. The secularists here do not care about the life cycle and what it means to respect it. Life for them is respected by how it serves society and a woman's whims. It begins when secularists believe it is alive enough. If a woman doesn't want it, just kill it. The value of life begins when society respects it as worthy of life.

It won't be long before secularists will figure out that babies are an annoyance when they are not wanted. This totally dependent being feeding off of society is just a disturbance to society. That being the case a woman should be given a two week trial period after birth to determine if the baby is worth keeping or should be terminated. There is no objective respect for life. This ideal has been replaced by secularists as respect for convenience.

This is the kind of distorted rubbish you would expect to hear from a politician, rather than a philosopher.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

"You seed them, that's it."

Works for me.

In the unlikely event I knock up some broad and -- instead of aborting -- she keeps it and then comes lookin' for me to support her, I'll tell her 'nope, I don't owe you jack...your body, your choice, your baby (to finance)'.

You will find that rabid anti-choicers are also against contracteption, hence the lies and hate-campaign against Planned Parenthood. They want to force women to have unwanted babies, but at the same time they want it to be as difficult as possible for women to avoid unwanted pregnancies. It would be difficult to find a sicker and more fucked-up group of people.

[henry quirk]

Well, I'm not for or against cuz I don't give a shit.

If Jane is knocked up, she can do as she likes: keep it, abort it, cook it up and serve it for dinner, for all I care.

As for rubbers and pills and IUDs (oh my!) I'm all for 'em (that's why I don't make babies), but, shit happens and birth control can fail.

And (using Dal's notion as guide) if it ever does then the broad is on her own cuz -- again -- her body, her choice, her baby.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Well, I'm not for or against cuz I don't give a shit.

If Jane is knocked up, she can do as she likes: keep it, abort it, cook it up and serve it for dinner, for all I care.

As for rubbers and pills and IUDs (oh my!) I'm all for 'em (that's why I don't make babies), but, shit happens and birth control can fail.

And (using Dal's notion as guide) if it ever does then the broad is on her own cuz -- again -- her body, her choice, her baby.

Child support is a different topic. Anti-abortionists don't care whether a child is supported or not. They are only interested in the sex part. If you don't give a shit then why comment at all?

[henry quirk]

If the lady sez the fella has no say so in the pregnancy (he's just the sperm donor) then she's ought not ask for child support if she keeps it...this is the logical endpoint for Dal's position...it's part and parcel of the issue of choice and abortion and THAT's why I commented.

Like I need a reason...you want I should go through your posts and draw up a list of every time you foisted sumthin' up for no good reason other than you wanted to (like your endless anti-American crap which usually adds not a jot to the conversation or debate)?


Black kettles and pots...

[vegetariantaxidermy]

If the lady sez the fella has no say so in the pregnancy (he's just the sperm donor) then she's ought not ask for child support if she keeps it...this is the logical endpoint for Dal's position...it's part and parcel of the issue of choice and abortion and THAT's why I commented.

Like I need a reason...you want I should go through your posts and draw up a list of every time you foisted sumthin' up for no good reason other than you wanted to (like your endless anti-American crap which usually adds not a jot to the conversation or debate)?


Black kettles and pots...

My posts are generally relevant to what is being discussed, expecially as Americans on here seem to think theirs is the only country on the planet. You will also find that all of the 'crap' you speak of happens to be true. It's not difficult to be anti-America.

[Nick_A]

Walker wrote: In addition to life begins at conception, what’s also obvious is that rational attempts to discuss any controversial topic ignites an emotional crap-storm, under certain conditions.

Yes, that is why I came up with the term “blind denial.” By definition its rationality is limited to the defense of opinions based on blind denial

His rationale was this. Only when the causes of unwanted pregnancies are no longer hidden will the causes of unwanted pregnancy end. When the effects of the causes of unwanted pregnancy are brought to the forefront of societal attention, and not intellectually PC-whitewashed with language, then the causes of unwanted pregnancies can no longer be hidden from attention, and the causes will thus end.

Very true. The problem is that secular society is based on blind denial so the powers that be will fight virtually to the death to prevent people from becoming able to consciously witness the truth. If people were capable of doing what Simone Weil suggests here there would be few unwanted pregnancies and abortions. Blind denial sanctioned by secularism makes it appear undesirable so everything continues as is.

There Comes

If you do not fight it---if you look, just
look, steadily,
upon it,

there comes
a moment when you cannot do it,
if it is evil;

if good, a moment
when you cannot
not.

[HexHammer]

In order to constitute an action as "murder", the victim has to be "alive", heart beating, being have a developed brain, etc.

Murder is a legal term. Something can only be murder if the law defines it as such.

..and here in the West we live in a democrasy and stupid people has the power to alter the law ..so is the way of democracy!

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Walker wrote: In addition to life begins at conception, what’s also obvious is that rational attempts to discuss any controversial topic ignites an emotional crap-storm, under certain conditions.

Yes, that is why I came up with the term “blind denial.” By definition its rationality is limited to the defense of opinions based on blind denial

His rationale was this. Only when the causes of unwanted pregnancies are no longer hidden will the causes of unwanted pregnancy end. When the effects of the causes of unwanted pregnancy are brought to the forefront of societal attention, and not intellectually PC-whitewashed with language, then the causes of unwanted pregnancies can no longer be hidden from attention, and the causes will thus end.

Very true. The problem is that secular society is based on blind denial so the powers that be will fight virtually to the death to prevent people from becoming able to consciously witness the truth. If people were capable of doing what Simone Weil suggests here there would be few unwanted pregnancies and abortions. Blind denial sanctioned by secularism makes it appear undesirable so everything continues as is.

There Comes

If you do not fight it---if you look, just
look, steadily,
upon it,

there comes
a moment when you cannot do it,
if it is evil;

if good, a moment
when you cannot
not.

So the kristian pervert Nick is supposedly against sharia, but hates secularism and women. It would appear that your idea of a untopia is indistinguishable from a 'sharia' country. Have you ever thought of emigrating to one?