How did knowing God change you?

[marjoram_blues]

Thanks, doc. Appreciate the swift response. I am tired now but will reflect on this later.
Hope all is going well with you and that your wife recovers well from the surgery.

Doc - I am going to be busy this week and don't have the time necessary to look into the various passages you provided. As you say, there can be various interpretations - the one thing I remember from my previous 'life' ( or chapter thereof) was being shocked by the apparent suggestion that people should be willing, if asked, to give up their family, to put Jesus first and foremost in their lives. To be willing to kill a son - seems to be a favourite test of ?love.

The promise is that giving up of one's own life ( metaphorically) - to be reborn into the Christian faith - to lose the life you lead and love in the real world will gain you eternal life. Whereas, if you hate your life (? is this what atto means by first having to HATE your life ( ? a life led by a nonbeliever who doesn't convert to Christianity), then you have this ? unpeaceful life for eternity. There is no hope of peace or joy for an non believer, ever ?
Atto seems to think that non believers need to see their lives as hateful ( ? because of the tests by 'it', or manmade tests ) before heaven ( ? on earth or above) can be attained.

So, the command is to Love Jesus and gain Peace on Earth and Heaven, For ever and ever. Amen.

However, even non or ex-believers can achieve some kind of a peaceful perspective re any life trials, and do not expect or wish for more of the same for ever and ever. It seems to me that there is an implicit/explicit threat to non believers that they will be forever in some kind of a Hell.
It's simple bribery and seduction into a religious cult, isn't it?

[marjoram_blues]

How did knowing God change me ? Six years ago I stopped believing in him altogether. Became an atheist and consequently
I am now as free as one can be while still alive. And I also have no fear of death and it can take me whenever it wants for I
am eagerly anticipating spending the rest of eternity in a state of pain free non consciousness. Because I finally denied God

This is so interesting. Loads of questions - but must go rest. If you wish to spare me the
suspense just expand re life changes before / during and after belief. You and your life

Becoming an atheist led to an interest in science and philosophy. Becoming socially isolated led to a reduction in anger. Becoming old led to an acceptance of both physical reality and death. All of this has been slowly and simultaneously happening to me which has resulted in a real and consistent peace of mind. I now see myself as an observer of life and the human condition rather than a participant in it. The detachment lets
me understand that I am just passing through and while nothing truly matters in the grand scheme of things one still needs something to do to
pass the time. And while this is nihilism it is a positive type. Since one gets to choose what meaning to give ones own life [ mine is knowledge acquisition ] instead of it being decided for one by someone else. And that is it with regard to what happened to me after I stopped believing

What stopped you doing all that before you stopped believing ?
It is not about either being an observer or a participant - you can be anything in life, both and more...at any one time you can be attached to people and relationships as well as observing them.

How or Why did being a believer mean that you couldn't choose to acquire knowledge or any other meaningful pursuit?

Were you always a believer? Born and bred? What did you believe and why?

[marjoram_blues]

It transformed me from a thoughtful though reserved adolescent to a completely insufferable geek.
Thankfully it did not last long and I un-knew "god" in a year or two and resumed my thoughtful and inquisitive self towards adulthood.

In what sense did you knoiw, or get to know God? How come you didn't know God before adolescence?
I assume that you would know of God, so what made the difference > a special knowing?

During adolescence.
Being born again, the whole shebang. Visions, prayer meetings with speaking in tongues, all that stuff.
The knowing was the absolute adherence to faith- the knowing without reason, the absolute certainty and single mindedness without doubt.

Well, this surprised the hell out of me. Not the 'being reborn' bit - but 'visions and speaking in tongues'. Really? How did that come to pass - did you really feel possessed in some way? How did you have faith - what did it mean to you in terms of psychology. You say you were an insufferable geek, but - hey, you might have been that anyway...and that is probably not the way you thought of yourself at the time. You would have been sincere and probably trying to convince others, no ?
So, what benefits did you gain, what changed in your life, if anything?

[marjoram_blues]

Did it make you a better person? Calmer? More at peace? Did it give you the ability to love all mankind? Did it make you healthier? Did it make you richer? Did it improve your relationships with people? Did it take away your anger? Did it take away your anxieties? Did you develop skills? Did it make you more focused? Did it give you extra strength? More tenacity? Did it take away your frustrations? Do people respond better to you now? Did it make you more attractive to people? Did you get promotions you did not expect? Did it make you more successful? Does food taste better now? Does music mean more to you now? Do you appreciate your fellow men and women more now? Do you think of all men as being equal now?

What changed in real life after you found God?

What would you expect to change in real life?

How could I know? Its God. There must be something special that happens.

I asked what would you expect, not what you could know. In other words, what is your philosophical hypothesis about how people might or might not change as a result of knowing/discovering God.

[marjoram_blues]

Is discovering God the same as knowing God?

I dont think so, but the doc would know better.

What would you see as the difference between discovering something/someone and knowing it/them - in general terms.
You asked two different questions - perhaps you should rethink the underlying objective of this thread?
Clarify your intentions, your issue?
It seems that the barrage of initial questions is more of an attack than a real questioning or wish to understand. Just my impression.
Have you tried asking similar questions on a religious site?
I note you have started another similar thread - are you obsessed?

[marjoram_blues]

Becoming an atheist led to an interest in science and philosophy. Becoming socially isolated led to a reduction in anger. Becoming old led to an acceptance of both physical reality and death. All of this has been slowly and simultaneously happening to me which has resulted in a real and consistent peace of mind. I now see myself as an observer of life and the human condition rather than a participant in it. The detachment lets
me understand that I am just passing through and while nothing truly matters in the grand scheme of things one still needs something to do to
pass the time. And while this is nihilism it is a positive type. Since one gets to choose what meaning to give ones own life [ mine is knowledge acquisition ] instead of it being decided for one by someone else. And that is it with regard to what happened to me after I stopped believing

Sheesh. That would give me reason to put a loaded gun in my mouth and pull the trigger.

You still have to tell us how knowing God changed you. We think it made you supercilious and you got some serious rage issues too. Your dislike for everyone including yourself has increased as have your insecurities and ED. would you agree with this assessment?

Who is this 'WE' ? and 'US' ? It is your need to know. There is no need for anyone to answer your questions.

[Reflex]

Are you telling me you never considered what the relationship between the infinite and the finite must entail?[/quote]

Nope. Why should I?


:::: ::::

[marjoram_blues]

Why? Is God something apart from your true self?

I have no idea what you think God is. There are too many of you, each with a different version of Him. I don't believe in Him. But if knowing Him did not change anything, what's the big deal in knowing Him? Nothing changes. There is no difference between you knowing God and me not knowing God.

You have had quite a few answers from posters now re how their belief changed them, or how perspective on life might change. Yet, you seem to ignore them and focus more on a few theists who somehow irritate you by a seeming show of superiority and who don't want to interact with your questions.
Let it be?
As you say, what difference does it make to you?
Or is there something more at stake here than simple personal changes...

[sthitapragya]

I asked what would you expect, not what you could know. In other words, what is your philosophical hypothesis about how people might or might not change as a result of knowing/discovering God.

I already asked for what I expect in the OP.

[marjoram_blues]

I asked what would you expect, not what you could know. In other words, what is your philosophical hypothesis about how people might or might not change as a result of knowing/discovering God.

I already asked for what I expect in the OP.

You didn't state a hypothesis.
Anyway, I have to leave now. Best wishes.

[sthitapragya]

You have had quite a few answers from posters now re how their belief changed them, or how perspective on life might change. Yet, you seem to ignore them and focus more on a few theists who somehow irritate you by a seeming show of superiority and who don't want to interact with your questions.
Let it be?
As you say, what difference does it make to you?
Or is there something more at stake here than simple personal changes...

I am not ignoring them. Everyone's perspective of life changes with knowledge of any kind. So perspective changes in life is not what I am looking for. That is a natural part of life which happens even on a day to day basis. You can meet someone so inspirational it changes your perspective of life. A good book can change your perspective of life.Even good music or art can change your perspective of life. Some people can claim that good food can change your perspective of life. But we are talking about God here. And you cannot compare God to a good book.

[sthitapragya]

I asked what would you expect, not what you could know. In other words, what is your philosophical hypothesis about how people might or might not change as a result of knowing/discovering God.

I already asked for what I expect in the OP.

You didn't state a hypothesis.
Anyway, I have to leave now. Best wishes.

Oh ok. Well, the hypothesis is: If God is love, then everyone who knows God should be filled with love,peace and contentment. If God is truth, then anyone who knows God should represent the truth. If God is malevolent, then anyone who knows God should be filled with rage. If God is transcendent, then anyone who knows God should be in a moksha like state of mind. Since I have no idea which of these Gods is the known one, I cannot really say what it changes would take place. But if nothing changes, then what is God?

[Hobbes' Choice]

In what sense did you knoiw, or get to know God? How come you didn't know God before adolescence?
I assume that you would know of God, so what made the difference > a special knowing?

During adolescence.
Being born again, the whole shebang. Visions, prayer meetings with speaking in tongues, all that stuff.
The knowing was the absolute adherence to faith- the knowing without reason, the absolute certainty and single mindedness without doubt.

Well, this surprised the hell out of me. Not the 'being reborn' bit - but 'visions and speaking in tongues'. Really? How did that come to pass - did you really feel possessed in some way? How did you have faith - what did it mean to you in terms of psychology. You say you were an insufferable geek, but - hey, you might have been that anyway...and that is probably not the way you thought of yourself at the time. You would have been sincere and probably trying to convince others, no ?
So, what benefits did you gain, what changed in your life, if anything?

This all allowed me to avoid and to see in a different light my abusive home-life which was violent and oppressive. I was very sincere and was so convinced I simply could not wait to die, because dying meant going to a better place.
It gave me something to look forward to.

[thedoc]

However, I don't understand why you think there should be different conceptions of God even if there is only one of Him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant

[thedoc]

Well, if nothing changes, I can do without everything changing. However, I don't understand why you think there should be different conceptions of God even if there is only one of Him.

Things do change, not what you do but how you do it and understand it.