How did knowing God change you?

[thedoc]

Several years ago I attended a small gathering on the subject "How Lutherans interpret the Bible", and the presenter was making the point that Lutherans don't read the whole Bible literally. He recounted an experience of making a live presentation to a congregation and was talking about the parables that Jesus told, indicating that they were made up stories to teach a lesson. Someone in the congregation stood up and asked if the presenter was saying that the parables were not true stories about real people, and the presenter confirmed that. The member then accused the presenter of calling Jesus a liar, and seemed very angry about it. Some people want to read everything in the Bible literally, and never get to the deeper meaning.

[marjoram_blues]

God was ALL of those unpleasant experiences. Today, yesterday, last thursday...etc. I've experience what heaven is when it has permitted. ..and yea i liked it...a lot. It has told me 6 yrs ago something very appealing re heaven -here on Earth...re a soul mate.

You do know that - i cant remember where - in the bible it states that to get heaven you will at first HATE your life. Are you aware of the passage?

I am familiar with the passage, but it doesn't mean what you think it means. This is the problem with the Bible, there is so much that is taken literally, that is not meant literally.

I would be grateful if you could let me know where to find this passage. And what you both think it means. Thanks.

[thedoc]

I am familiar with the passage, but it doesn't mean what you think it means. This is the problem with the Bible, there is so much that is taken literally, that is not meant literally.

I would be grateful if you could let me know where to find this passage. And what you think it means. Thanks.

John 12:24-25Revised Standard Version (RSV)
24 Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. 25 He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

This is one of the verses that might have been referred to,

Matthew 10:37Revised Standard Version (RSV)
37 He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;

And this is another, one of the meanings is relative to the scale of loving, and Jesus is saying to love him more than Earthly things, Jesus representing God in this case, and not mortal life. It is possible that "hate" is a mistranslation from the original text, but I don't know that for sure.

I am reminded of what Jesus said to the thief hanging next to him, and the original text didn't have spaces or punctuation. So where do you put the comma? "I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise", or "I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise". Slightly different meanings depending on where you place the comma, because the original did not have any commas.

[surreptitious57]

How did knowing God change me ? Six years ago I stopped believing in him altogether. Became an atheist and consequently
I am now as free as one can be while still alive. And I also have no fear of death and it can take me whenever it wants for I
am eagerly anticipating spending the rest of eternity in a state of pain free non consciousness. Because I finally denied God

[marjoram_blues]

Thanks, doc. Appreciate the swift response. I am tired now but will reflect on this later.
Hope all is going well with you and that your wife recovers well from the surgery.

[marjoram_blues]

How did knowing God change me ? Six years ago I stopped believing in him altogether. Became an atheist and consequently
I am now as free as one can be while still alive. And I also have no fear of death and it can take me whenever it wants for I
am eagerly anticipating spending the rest of eternity in a state of pain free non consciousness. Because I finally denied God

This is so interesting. Loads of questions - but must go rest. If you wish to spare me the suspense, please just expand re life changes before/during and after belief. You and your life.

[Reflex]

Atto... If you were standing in a stadium full of guys all claiming to be the ONE AND ONLY Santa -- would you think they were all deluded?

How can you claim something that so many other dingdongs are claiming, and somehow convince yourself that you're not a dingdong too?

Go away fool.

Whew. At least now I know I'm not the only one to see Lacewing that way.

[Reflex]

You are really demonstrating your ignorance of Zen, "Those who know, don't say, those who say, don't know ". - (Zen saying.)

Entertaining, no?

[thedoc]

You are really demonstrating your ignorance of Zen, "Those who know, don't say, those who say, don't know ". - (Zen saying.)

Entertaining, no?

Sometimes Zen is very entertaining.

[Lacewing]

Whew. At least now I know I'm not the only one to see Lacewing that way.

Oh, of course not. Lots of self-absorbed theists who like to stroke themselves and don't want to answer questions about what they say, find my questions irritating. I don't think you should be boasting that you and Atto are in the same category... but maybe that just shows the small scale you measure by, which would explain why you see yourself at the top.

Atto, I was just having a little fun with you with the Santa post. The points I was making were still worth consideration and a courageous response -- but apparently not for someone who is adverse to questioning. You speak of the challenges you face in life... yet you avoid challenges to your thinking here?

Neither one of you, Atto or Reflex, wants to address why you set yourself above others in what you think you know. Neither one of you seems willing to explain how that would make any sense at all. You just want it to be true and not to be questioned. Such absurdity is on display for all to see... you don't need to blame me.

[surreptitious57]

How did knowing God change me ? Six years ago I stopped believing in him altogether. Became an atheist and consequently
I am now as free as one can be while still alive. And I also have no fear of death and it can take me whenever it wants for I
am eagerly anticipating spending the rest of eternity in a state of pain free non consciousness. Because I finally denied God

This is so interesting. Loads of questions - but must go rest. If you wish to spare me the
suspense just expand re life changes before / during and after belief. You and your life

Becoming an atheist led to an interest in science and philosophy. Becoming socially isolated led to a reduction in anger. Becoming old led to an acceptance of both physical reality and death. All of this has been slowly and simultaneously happening to me which has resulted in a real and consistent peace of mind. I now see myself as an observer of life and the human condition rather than a participant in it. The detachment lets
me understand that I am just passing through and while nothing truly matters in the grand scheme of things one still needs something to do to
pass the time. And while this is nihilism it is a positive type. Since one gets to choose what meaning to give ones own life [ mine is knowledge acquisition ] instead of it being decided for one by someone else. And that is it with regard to what happened to me after I stopped believing

[Reflex]

You are really demonstrating your ignorance of Zen, "Those who know, don't say, those who say, don't know ". - (Zen saying.)

Entertaining, no?

Sometimes Zen is very entertaining.

True.

[Reflex]

Whew. At least now I know I'm not the only one to see Lacewing that way.

Oh, of course not. Lots of self-absorbed theists who like to stroke themselves and don't want to answer questions about what they say, find my questions irritating. I don't think you should be boasting that you and Atto are in the same category... but maybe that just shows the small scale you measure by, which would explain why you see yourself at the top.

Atto, I was just having a little fun with you with the Santa post. The points I was making were still worth consideration and a courageous response -- but apparently not for someone who is adverse to questioning. You speak of the challenges you face in life... yet you avoid challenges to your thinking here?

Neither one of you, Atto or Reflex, wants to address why you set yourself above others in what you think you know. Neither one of you seems willing to explain how that would make any sense at all. You just want it to be true and not to be questioned. Such absurdity is on display for all to see... you don't need to blame me.

As Atto said: "Go away fool"

[Hobbes' Choice]

It transformed me from a thoughtful though reserved adolescent to a completely insufferable geek.
Thankfully it did not last long and I un-knew "god" in a year or two and resumed my thoughtful and inquisitive self towards adulthood.

In what sense did you knoiw, or get to know God? How come you didn't know God before adolescence?
I assume that you would know of God, so what made the difference > a special knowing?

During adolescence.
Being born again, the whole shebang. Visions, prayer meetings with speaking in tongues, all that stuff.
The knowing was the absolute adherence to faith- the knowing without reason, the absolute certainty and single mindedness without doubt.

[sthitapragya]

Did it make you a better person? Calmer? More at peace? Did it give you the ability to love all mankind? Did it make you healthier? Did it make you richer? Did it improve your relationships with people? Did it take away your anger? Did it take away your anxieties? Did you develop skills? Did it make you more focused? Did it give you extra strength? More tenacity? Did it take away your frustrations? Do people respond better to you now? Did it make you more attractive to people? Did you get promotions you did not expect? Did it make you more successful? Does food taste better now? Does music mean more to you now? Do you appreciate your fellow men and women more now? Do you think of all men as being equal now?

What changed in real life after you found God?

What would you expect to change in real life?

How could I know? Its God. There must be something special that happens.