Roger Scruton

[duszek]

Uwot dislikes Roger Scruton passionately.

Did Mr. Scruton introduce some new insights into the political discussion, Mr. Bieter ?
Has he changed your mind somehow ?
Has he coined new terms or created new concepts that promote our struggle towards truth and fairness ?

I am open to Mr Scruton´s contribution.
(in a nutshell)

[tbieter]

WHY BEAUTY MATTERS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLSGQQy ... QutqLJlJpL

[Dubious]

I watched this video a around a week ago and it's quite good and well presented. There's almost nothing I would disagree on and have no doubt he could have gone deeper had time permitted. In some ways it's not unlike Kenneth Clarke in his now somewhat dated Civilization series, something I looked forward to every week. I have no idea why Scruton is so hated by almost everyone here.

[Hobbes' Choice]

The very existence of his kind, his class, and his ideology is a treat to all humanity.
It is the thread of tradition, of vested interests, of hierarchy and domination of one class by the other held together by the bounds of tradition, privilege and wealth.
His is the ideology of the thought police, and the forces of conservatism that would hold us all in our place, under the yoke of Queen and Country.
Damn his face, damn his eyes and damn the horse he rode in on. The only thing worth building in his context is the grave over his limp dead body.

"Peaceful dwelling?" - Tell that to the Fox the his crew have just bred to let out for the hunt.

[Hobbes' Choice]

I watched this video a around a week ago and it's quite good and well presented. There's almost nothing I would disagree on and have no doubt he could have gone deeper had time permitted. In some ways it's not unlike Kenneth Clarke in his now somewhat dated Civilization series, something I looked forward to every week. I have no idea why Scruton is so hated by almost everyone here.

And what fucking planet do you come from?

[duszek]

I for one don´t hate Roger Scruton. I will check his books in the university library. Perhaps he is comparable to B. Russell ? If he has something interesting to say in good style and good grammar then he deserves attention and will be just perfect for someone like me.
If he has some good reasons for preserving privilege in society I want to hear them and see for myself. The result can be that I disagree in the end and that I will know why I disagree, that´s something.

Plato came from an aristocratic and wealthy family too and is this a reason not to read him ?

Rich or poor, conservative or socialist, any decent person can contribute philosophically.

[Dubious]

I watched this video a around a week ago and it's quite good and well presented. There's almost nothing I would disagree on and have no doubt he could have gone deeper had time permitted. In some ways it's not unlike Kenneth Clarke in his now somewhat dated Civilization series, something I looked forward to every week. I have no idea why Scruton is so hated by almost everyone here.

And what fucking planet do you come from?

Fortunately not from the same moron end of the planet you're on. I didn't say I like or admire him ONLY that I generally agreed with his views on the subject of beauty. Your problems with Scruton are YOUR problems. Leave me the fuck out of it. I'm not interested in your opinions. I'll leave that to other opinionated shitheads like yourself to admire.

I for one don´t hate Roger Scruton. I will check his books in the university library. Perhaps he is comparable to B. Russell ? If he has something interesting to say in good style and good grammar then he deserves attention and will be just perfect for someone like me.
If he has some good reasons for preserving privilege in society I want to hear them and see for myself. The result can be that I disagree in the end and that I will know why I disagree, that´s something.

Plato came from an aristocratic and wealthy family too and is this a reason not to read him ?

Rich or poor, conservative or socialist, any decent person can contribute philosophically.

This at least is a more balanced view. I don't know enough about him except what I read on Amazon's “Look Inside” offer. If you're a member they're quite generous in the number of pages allowed and presents a good foretaste of content and style. Can't say I've been particularly impressed “so far” and he's probably written way too many books. Much of the commentary on the Amazon site whether positive or negative are also interesting but best to decide for oneself.

Still can't figure out why he's so hated on this site. Obviously, there will be no answer forthcoming by loud mouthed assholes who are always so convinced they know it all.

[tbieter]

The very existence of his kind, his class, and his ideology is a treat to all humanity.
It is the thread of tradition, of vested interests, of hierarchy and domination of one class by the other held together by the bounds of tradition, privilege and wealth.
His is the ideology of the thought police, and the forces of conservatism that would hold us all in our place, under the yoke of Queen and Country.
Damn his face, damn his eyes and damn the horse he rode in on. The only thing worth building in his context is the grave over his limp dead body.

"Peaceful dwelling?" - Tell that to the Fox the his crew have just bred to let out for the hunt.

This nicely illustrates leftist hate and it's tendency to be violent.

[Obvious Leo]

Plato came from an aristocratic and wealthy family too and is this a reason not to read him ?

Of course not. The best reason not to read Plato is because when it came to philosophy he didn't know his arse from his elbow. However because he came from a wealthy aristocratic family it was automatically assumed otherwise. Plus ca change plus c'est la meme chose.

[uwot]

Still can't figure out why he's so hated on this site.

Well, let me repeat what I said earlier:

Roger Scruton's problem is that he just doesn't like the modern world. He doesn't like contemporary music, he doesn't like contemporary art, he doesn't like contemporary architecture and he doesn't like contemporary social mores. Basically, he's a petty minded, reactionary twerp. All of which is entirely his own business and it shouldn't upset anyone, if he wants to write his own dreary operas.
What is ugly and cynical about this blithering half-wit is, respectively, his concept of 'endarkening'*, brain-washing, to you and me, and the fact that he is quite happy to form a pact with the Thatcher/Reaganite free market sociopaths to achieve it.

*Here's Wikipedia on the topic. "Scruton considers that religion plays a basic function in "endarkening" human minds. "Endarkenment" is Scruton's way of describing the process of socialization through which certain behaviours and choices are closed off and forbidden to the subject, which he considers to be necessary in order to curb socially damaging impulses and behaviours.

What I saw in the video was the frightened little boy that his mum and dad were rotten to; more to be pitied than hated. But if the above doesn't make it clear, not only does he have his demons that he deals with in his own timorous way, he thinks everybody should do likewise. In the video he talks about "Humbly acquiescing in a social order that is bigger than ourselves." If that's what he wants to do, that's his business, but he currently make his living by encouraging others to agitate for the kind of social order he wants. He is a figurehead for people who, like him, are afraid of life. Individually, they are not a problem, but being simple, they are easy to exploit; the Conservative party in Great Britain and the Republicans in the US milk these saps, because nobody in their right mind would support the economic policies if they understood them and were not a billionaire.
Duszek, he could scarcely be more different to Bertrand Russell, who was a vigorous defender of people's right to self expression. He could have been speaking about Scruton when he said: "If there were in the world today any large number of people who desired their own happiness more than they desired the unhappiness of others, we could have paradise in a few years."

[Obvious Leo]

I must admit I didn't get the comparison to Russell either and assumed duszek had got a name confused. Russell would be appalled at Scruton's beatification of ignorance in general and at his promotion of religious belief in particular.

[Dubious]

Uwot:

I have read your re-quoted post the first time but frankly couldn't find much in it except that you really dislike the guy – which may be completely justified – and that you vehemently disagree with his politics. In your very short mention of it, I probably would as well. I never heard of Scruton prior to him being mentioned here so I clearly don't know enough about him to have an opinion as collectively espoused here which is ONLY derogatory. Objectivity appears to have lost consciousness under a pile of opinion. Many of the comments on Amazon are far more insightful and instructively critical.

Pertaining to the YouTube video, I don't see what you seem to. Regarding his views on modern art, I agree completely, though not on architecture. The only way to get some insight is to examine what he wrote. The most severely unreliable critique – and it doesn't even amount to that - is to accept face value what is written on a philosophy forum. As always, one's views may be better sourced by confronting it's cause directly rather than having them borrowed from intermediaries.

[tbieter]

The very existence of his kind, his class, and his ideology is a treat to all humanity.
It is the thread of tradition, of vested interests, of hierarchy and domination of one class by the other held together by the bounds of tradition, privilege and wealth.
His is the ideology of the thought police, and the forces of conservatism that would hold us all in our place, under the yoke of Queen and Country.
Damn his face, damn his eyes and damn the horse he rode in on. The only thing worth building in his context is the grave over his limp dead body.

"Peaceful dwelling?" - Tell that to the Fox the his crew have just bred to let out for the hunt.

This nicely illustrates leftist hate and it's tendency to be violent.

Where is the rebuttal from Hobbes Choice?

[FlashDangerpants]

The very existence of his kind, his class, and his ideology is a treat to all humanity.
It is the thread of tradition, of vested interests, of hierarchy and domination of one class by the other held together by the bounds of tradition, privilege and wealth.
His is the ideology of the thought police, and the forces of conservatism that would hold us all in our place, under the yoke of Queen and Country.
Damn his face, damn his eyes and damn the horse he rode in on. The only thing worth building in his context is the grave over his limp dead body.

"Peaceful dwelling?" - Tell that to the Fox the his crew have just bred to let out for the hunt.

This nicely illustrates leftist hate and it's tendency to be violent.

Where is the rebuttal from Hobbes Choice?

Valid sllogism:
All men are mortal, Socrates is a man, therefore Socrates is mortal.

False syllogism:
Hobbes choice uses uses swivel-eyed violent rants for dramatic purposes, HC is a dirty lefty, therefore dirty lefties are violent.

This is a thread about how much you like a particular philosopher, posted on a philosophy forum. But right now it is hard to see how you have learned anything by your reading of philosophy. Is it perhaps at least a little bit true that you like Scruton just because he writes things you already agree with, rather than because you have put real effort into interrogating his theory?

Perhaps if you gave a little more info on some particular Scruton argument you like rather than just listing which book you read today, there would be a bit more meat on this topic and slightly less of the silly lefty v righty culture wars that gets the world nowhere.

[Obvious Leo]

This is a thread about how much you like a particular philosopher,

A rather loose definition of the term philosopher, in my opinion, although it's also reasonable to suggest that no particular qualifications are needed in order to apply such a label to oneself. I tend to regard Scruton more as an opinion-for-hire member of the paid commentariat and as such the validity of his views can be equated to such self-appointed gurus as radio shock-jocks. You only need to consider his opinion on the barbaric practice of fox-hunting and you'll immediately know everything you need to know about the bloke.