Are you optimistic?

[Skip]

I regard it as a positive thing that this fact is nowadays being more widely recognised by the medical profession and I completely agree with Hobbes that this applies particularly to the question of treating behavioural disorders in children with mind-altering substances, the long-term effects of which are almost completely unknown.

Defining categories would be a good starting point. An illness is not the same as a personality disorder is not the same as bad behaviour (or sugar induced hyperactivity!) in children or learning anomalies or grief or appropriate response to trauma. They can't be treated the same way. The only reason anyone would try treating them the same way is to make the 'problem' people keep quiet and stop bothering us.

At the same time, I strongly object to all mental disorders being classed as "part of the person" who suffers from them and therefore incurable. Nobody wants to be identified with their worst aspect. It's a bit like classifying people as lepers or cripples because they suffer from an infection or injury.
Some mental illness may remain forever incurable, but I think we ought to keep trying to track down and address the causative factors we are able to isolate*, and meanwhile, to alleviate as much of the suffering as possible, by all available methods.

(*Because some really are external to the patients and their life choices - I suspect there are far more contributory factors in the physical environment than we know about. As long as we tell we tell people to repair themselves or live with it, we'll never clean up.)

[Dalek Prime]

As both optimism and pessimism are biases, the OP should read 'are you biased?'. I think we all know the answer to that, even if these two particular biases were to suddenly vanish overnight.

[Philosophy Explorer]

As both optimism and pessimism are biases, the OP should read 'are you biased'.

Biased towards what Dalek?

By asking "Are you optimistic?" also strongly implies the
question "Are you pessimistic?" Being that the thread has gotten over 60 responses, I'm highly satisfied.

Since you're interested, why don't you write the thread yourself with that title?

PhilX

[Dalek Prime]

As both optimism and pessimism are biases, the OP should read 'are you biased'.

Biased towards what Dalek?

By asking "Are you optimistic?" also strongly implies the
question "Are you pessimistic?" Being that the thread has gotten over 60 responses, I'm highly satisfied.

Since you're interested, why don't you write the thread yourself with that title?

PhilX

Not biased towards anything. I'm merely stating that the viewpoints are biases, and it would be fun and interesting to see how many on this forum view themselves as unbiased. Stop getting upset over suggestions in your threads, okay? I'll do you a favour from now on and stop making them. I hope that promise will be satisfactory to you.

Ah, to heck with it. I'll do myself a favour and leave this forum.

[Philosophy Explorer]

As both optimism and pessimism are biases, the OP should read 'are you biased'.

Biased towards what Dalek?

By asking "Are you optimistic?" also strongly implies the
question "Are you pessimistic?" Being that the thread has gotten over 60 responses, I'm highly satisfied.

Since you're interested, why don't you write the thread yourself with that title?

PhilX

Not biased towards anything. I'm merely stating that the viewpoints are biases, and it would be fun and interesting to see how many on this forum view themselves as unbiased. Stop getting upset over suggestions in your threads, okay? I'll do you a favour from now on and stop making them. I hope that promise will be satisfactory to you.

Ah, to heck with it. I'll do myself a favour and leave this forum.

You're aware that titles can't be changed by members. Since it's your creation, you can run a thread with your suggested title and see how it goes.

PhilX

[attofishpi]

Sorry atto. Formatting issue rectified. And I realise you were kidding. All good.

No worries - thanks mate!!

...and please don't leave this forum...its always the good ones that leave!

PS If you do - PM me where you are off to and i'll come join you!

[attofishpi]

As both optimism and pessimism are biases, the OP should read 'are you biased'.

Biased towards what Dalek?

By asking "Are you optimistic?" also strongly implies the
question "Are you pessimistic?" Being that the thread has gotten over 60 responses, I'm highly satisfied.

Since you're interested, why don't you write the thread yourself with that title?

PhilX

Below are the questions:-

I am an optimist

I am pessimistic

I can't decide

The second option should have been "I am a pessimist" not "I am pessimistic"...otherwise you should be providing a subject that one might be 'pessimistic' about, rather than questioning as you correctly did on the first option, ones position in general as an overall trait.

[Skip]

As both optimism and pessimism are biases, the OP should read 'are you biased?'. I think we all know the answer to that, even if these two particular biases were to suddenly vanish overnight.

Of course everybody's biased - but not all for the same reasons.

Optimist and pessimist are [partial, simplistic] descriptions of personality types, while optimism and pessimism are states of mind. As I've explained before, and as attofishpi also pointed out above, an optimist may have a pessimistic outlook on one particular topic or situation, and a pessimist may have an expectation of positive outcome in some particular event or undertaking.
My problem is with switching the poll from personality to state of mind. Probably just a minor semantic error, but it's caused a good deal of misunderstanding.

[marjoram_blues]

As both optimism and pessimism are biases, the OP should read 'are you biased?'. I think we all know the answer to that, even if these two particular biases were to suddenly vanish overnight.

Of course everybody's biased - but not all for the same reasons.

Optimist and pessimist are [partial, simplistic] descriptions of personality types, while optimism and pessimism are states of mind. As I've explained before, and as attofishpi also pointed out above, an optimist may have a pessimistic outlook on one particular topic or situation, and a pessimist may have an expectation of positive outcome in some particular event or undertaking.
My problem is with switching the poll from personality to state of mind. Probably just a minor semantic error, but it's caused a good deal of misunderstanding.

Thanks again for further explanations; also re depression.

Sorry to hear of your Mum's experience and passing - a difficult time to go through for all concerned. It is in the coping that our philosophical/spiritual/ physical/ mental strengths and weaknesses are tested/laid bare. I'm not at all sure that I'm dealing well right now.

I agree with your more expanded versions in response to others. Appreciate everyone's input, time and energy.

[Skip]

Share what you have, right?
I had a lot of help through my mother's illness. (It's nine years ago; not raw.) My friends with emotional problems did get and/or are still getting help from other people with similar problems. If you're having difficulty coping, it's always a good idea to seek out others who have been through the same kind of experience, because each one has learned something useful - and most everyone is willing to share. At the very least, they understand and you feel less isolated; that can be a relief by itself.

[marjoram_blues]

Share what you have, right?
I had a lot of help through my mother's illness. (It's nine years ago; not raw.) My friends with emotional problems did get and/or are still getting help from other people with similar problems. If you're having difficulty coping, it's always a good idea to seek out others who have been through the same kind of experience, because each one has learned something useful - and most everyone is willing to share. At the very least, they understand and you feel less isolated; that can be a relief by itself.

Thanks, Skip, glad to hear you received a lot of help and yes, I agree about the benefits of sharing and receiving support from friends. And getting out there. But...
Phone a friend works right up until I give in to flowing tears at night. Difficult to get the balance between thinking it through and thinking too much. Control of thoughts....where's the damned switch.

This is a great time for learning. To keep calm and supportive of a deteriorating.Mum who is virtually my soulmate.
Nothing out of the ordinary, really. Plenty stories there.

[Skip]

Not regular friends - and certainly not relatives - they can be used up in no time. They're probably sympathetic, but embarrassed, out of their depth, tongue-tied and easily overwhelmed. You need fellow travelers, preferably with no previous connection to you in regular life. I say that because I find, for most people, it's convenient to keep "the problem" separate from work, school and Sunday dinner. This way, you can say anything, frankly and starkly, without it sticking to your persona in the mundane areas of your life: people won't look at you funny or expect you to eat the flowers, have a meltdown or grow a second head. You know what I mean?
You need a 'safe place' as some groups call their support structure, among people who have the same experience. They're out there. Somtimes you can find them through clinic or outpatient referral services. There may be a relevant website or help-line to direct you to a group in your area.

But that probably comes later. Right now, what you need most is relief. We brought my mother home for her last three weeks and there was a ton of practical assistance: wheelchair, hospital bed (a physiotherapist taught us how to transfer a patient safely from one to the other) a nurse who came every second day, and a home helper to relive of some chores, so we could have time to ourselves. There being two of us here full time and my brother and his wife for some of the time, made it easier, too. But then, after she died, and the equipment was removed and the grandkids all went away - that's when the silence grew very deep and dark. There was a wonderful young social worker who would just listen without judging or offering placebos. I'm greatly indebted to her.

[marjoram_blues]

Not regular friends - and certainly not relatives - they can be used up in no time. They're probably sympathetic, but embarrassed, out of their depth, tongue-tied and easily overwhelmed. You need fellow travelers, preferably with no previous connection to you in regular life. I say that because I find, for most people, it's convenient to keep "the problem" separate from work, school and Sunday dinner. This way, you can say anything, frankly and starkly, without it sticking to your persona in the mundane areas of your life: people won't look at you funny or expect you to eat the flowers, have a meltdown or grow a second head. You know what I mean?
You need a 'safe place' as some groups call their support structure, among people who have the same experience. They're out there. Somtimes you can find them through clinic or outpatient referral services. There may be a relevant website or help-line to direct you to a group in your area.

But that probably comes later. Right now, what you need most is relief. We brought my mother home for her last three weeks and there was a ton of practical assistance: wheelchair, hospital bed (a physiotherapist taught us how to transfer a patient safely from one to the other) a nurse who came every second day, and a home helper to relive of some chores, so we could have time to ourselves. There being two of us here full time and my brother and his wife for some of the time, made it easier, too. But then, after she died, and the equipment was removed and the grandkids all went away - that's when the silence grew very deep and dark. There was a wonderful young social worker who would just listen without judging or offering placebos. I'm greatly indebted to her.

Again appreciate all you say and the way that you say it.
I have 2 true strong and wise friends who have known me professionally, socially, psychologically for at least...omg...can it be 30 years. We have shared experiences and have given our careful ears, eyes and loving hugs as and when required. All kinds of support. I am more of a 1:1 person who doesn't like the idea of group sharing of personal ill health. I know it works well for some, I've even led s few.

I won't go on about this, not the right place, even if it is the right person. You are right about the need for rest, to recover from physical, mental and emotional exhaustion. It is heartening to hear your experience and advice.
We are not at that point yet but all services required are in p!ace. Thank goodness for our current health and social care, even if a bit haphazard.
The sense of loss starts here, but organisations such as Cruse are only for those bereaved after a death. Your young social worker, or someone who allows expression - simply listening - sounds wonderful. I would hope to find someone like that, somewhere.

Sorry for personal issues taking over on this thread about optimism/pessimism. For me, it's about turning any unhelpful negatives into a positive learning experience. But sometimes, you know... the practice doesn't follow the theory.

[Skip]

I don't usually hijack threads; I usually nudge them back on track. Figure I've got some credit. Anyway, this has been a demonstration of determined optimism in an unavoidably pessimistic situation, no?


(Thanks, Christa, wherever you are!)

[marjoram_blues]

I don't usually hijack threads; I usually nudge them back on track. Figure I've got some credit. Anyway, this has been a demonstration of determined optimism in an unavoidably pessimistic situation, no?


(Thanks, Christa, wherever you are!)

Yes - you have credit plus, plus, plus. Thanks.