Is marriage a selfish relationship?

[Philosophy Explorer]

If all relationships are selfish in a way can we find any examples of altruism at all ?

Or is the concept of altruism meaningless ?

A charity could be an altruistic mechanism as donor and donee may not be personally involved.

PhilX

[Harbal]

Everything we do is done to satisfy some impulse in ourself, so, in that respect, everything we do is selfish. If we derive satisfaction from helping or giving to another person we are considered to be unselfish but we still only do it to satisfy an underlying desire in ourselves. I suppose the best way to look at it is in terms of sefish or unselfish desires. Marriage is usually entered into out of a desire to be with a particular person and even though this may be considered to be a selfish desire it is one that is normally approved of by the particular person in question.

[duszek]

If all relationships are selfish in a way can we find any examples of altruism at all ?

Or is the concept of altruism meaningless ?

A charity could be an altruistic mechanism as donor and donee may not be personally involved.

PhilX

So people cannot be altruistic at all, only mechanisms can be altruistic.

Do I deduce correctly ?

[duszek]

Everything we do is done to satisfy some impulse in ourself, so, in that respect, everything we do is selfish. If we derive satisfaction from helping or giving to another person we are considered to be unselfish but we still only do it to satisfy an underlying desire in ourselves. I suppose the best way to look at it is in terms of sefish or unselfish desires. Marriage is usually entered into out of a desire to be with a particular person and even though this may be considered to be a selfish desire it is one that is normally approved of by the particular person in question.

Whatever we do we do it to satisfy our desires.
Some of these desires are selfish, other desires are altruistic.

Do I deduce correctly ?

[Philosophy Explorer]

If all relationships are selfish in a way can we find any examples of altruism at all ?

Or is the concept of altruism meaningless ?

A charity could be an altruistic mechanism as donor and donee may not be personally involved.

PhilX

So people cannot be altruistic at all, only mechanisms can be altruistic.

Do I deduce correctly ?

What I'm saying is people can't be 100% altruistic for the stated reasons. There's always an element of selfishness involved.

PhilX

[Harbal]

Whatever we do we do it to satisfy our desires.
Some of these desires are selfish, other desires are altruistic.

Do I deduce correctly ?

An act that is done in order to satisfy a personal desire is surely unavoidably selfish. If the object of the desire is to bestow some benefit on another person without deriving any benefit oneself, other than the satisfying of the desire, I think there is a case for describing the desire as unselfish. It may be possible that such a desire may arise in us for any number of selfish reasons but, in order to preserve our sense of humanity, maybe we shouldn't look into that too deeply.

[duszek]

A charity could be an altruistic mechanism as donor and donee may not be personally involved.

PhilX

So people cannot be altruistic at all, only mechanisms can be altruistic.

Do I deduce correctly ?

What I'm saying is people can't be 100% altruistic for the stated reasons. There's always an element of selfishness involved.

PhilX

Let´s see:

an adult stranger saves a child from being run over by a car (an instinctive reaction of a father) and gets killed himself.

His action is 99% altruistic and 1% selfish ? (He wants to be a good father and a good human being.)

[duszek]

Whatever we do we do it to satisfy our desires.
Some of these desires are selfish, other desires are altruistic.

Do I deduce correctly ?

An act that is done in order to satisfy a personal desire is surely unavoidably selfish. If the object of the desire is to bestow some benefit on another person without deriving any benefit oneself, other than the satisfying of the desire, I think there is a case for describing the desire as unselfish. It may be possible that such a desire may arise in us for any number of selfish reasons but, in order to preserve our sense of humanity, maybe we shouldn't look into that too deeply.

So we classify desires as selfish and not selfish and partly this partly that.

Yes, it makes sense.

[Philosophy Explorer]

Let´s see:

an adult stranger saves a child from being run over by a car (an instinctive reaction of a father) and gets killed himself.

His action is 99% altruistic and 1% selfish ? (He wants to be a good father and a good human being.)

Maybe he can't stand the thought of the child getting hurt
or killed, maybe he expects a reward for his good deed, etc.

PhilX

[Harbal]

So we classify desires as selfish and not selfish and partly this partly that.

Yes, it makes sense.

Where have you got the "partly this and partly that" from? If you don't agree with me why not just say why?

[duszek]

Between the extrems of getting "only a benefit for oneself" and "only a benefit for another person" we get lots of cases in which we get a benefit for both oneself and another person.

It´s the win-win situation as it is nowadays called.

I added this to the classification that I deduced from your reasoning.

Is this so bad that you need to snap at me ????

Happy Easter.
England won some football match yesterday. (If I heard on the news correctly.)

[Harbal]

Between the extrems of getting "only a benefit for oneself" and "only a benefit for another person" we get lots of cases in which we get a benefit for both oneself and another person.

Yes, I suppose quite often there are mixed motives.

I added this to the classification that I deduced from your reasoning.

Fair enough.

Is this so bad that you need to snap at me ????

I only snapped in the event that there was a hint of sarcasm in your post. If there wasn't any sarcasm I would prefer you to regard it as a polite request for clarification. In other words, if you agree with what I said then I'm quite happy to be friends with you.

[Skip]

Can a marriage be altruistic ? (= not selfish)

I marry someone for the sake of this person alone and not for my own sake.
Is it at all conceivable ?

Sure. Like, to keep a man from being deported, or to rescue a girl from a horrible father, or from the depth of poverty, or from the harsh moral judgment of other people.
Of course, that's not likely to be a marriage in the same sense as one that both partners enter because they think it will make them happy.
There is nothing wrong with being happy to make someone else happy. If they're equally selfish, they're also equally altruistic: it cancels out.

True altruism is directed at people or other beings who are not in a position to do just as much for you in return.

[duszek]

Is this so bad that you need to snap at me ????

I only snapped in the event that there was a hint of sarcasm in your post. If there wasn't any sarcasm I would prefer you to regard it as a polite request for clarification. In other words, if you agree with what I said then I'm quite happy to be friends with you.

No hard feelings.

There was no sarcasm in my statement, I am happy to have been given a chance to provide clarification.

I am looking forward to more fruitful discussions, it´s not easy to find a good interlocutor.

[duszek]

Can a marriage be altruistic ? (= not selfish)

I marry someone for the sake of this person alone and not for my own sake.
Is it at all conceivable ?

Sure. Like, to keep a man from being deported, or to rescue a girl from a horrible father, or from the depth of poverty, or from the harsh moral judgment of other people.
Of course, that's not likely to be a marriage in the same sense as one that both partners enter because they think it will make them happy.
There is nothing wrong with being happy to make someone else happy. If they're equally selfish, they're also equally altruistic: it cancels out.

True altruism is directed at people or other beings who are not in a position to do just as much for you in return.

Who are not in a position to do just as much in return.
But we never know for sure, perhaps one day they will get a chance and they will do it.
In novels such things happen, probably also in real life sometimes.

Pip (in the novel "Great Expectations") helped reluctantly an escaped convict and later on got some money from him, did he ? He thought it was Miss Havisham who was the benefactress, a big misunderstanding.

Helping someone is always a good investment, it seems.
If a person cannot help you in return then perhaps at least he will not be a wretch who freaks out and starts shooting at people. Which is also some kind of a reward, far-fetched perhaps, but still a reward.

The problem is that speculations are always vague and what we do with the best of intentions can result in someone disastrous too.