Hunting.

[Obvious Leo]

A third of all the food produced in the world is thrown away uneaten. The stresses which the human population are placing on the biosphere are almost exclusively a question of resource management rather than one of resource availability. Even within the boundaries of our current technologies our planet can comfortably sustain the current human population, (and probably a whole lot more), and at the same time enhance biodiversity instead of threatening it. These are not questions of science but questions of a co-ordinated political will.

With regards to the OP. Killing animals for fun is strictly for the sickos but killing them in the service of sustainable ecological management is a matter of simple common sense, as is eating those so killed.

[thedoc]

I want to thank everyone who responded to this thread, you have been quite helpful in editing my "ignore" list.

[thedoc]

A third of all the food produced in the world is thrown away uneaten. The stresses which the human population are placing on the biosphere are almost exclusively a question of resource management rather than one of resource availability. Even within the boundaries of our current technologies our planet can comfortably sustain the current human population, (and probably a whole lot more), and at the same time enhance biodiversity instead of threatening it. These are not questions of science but questions of a co-ordinated political will.

With regards to the OP. Killing animals for fun is strictly for the sickos but killing them in the service of sustainable ecological management is a matter of simple common sense, as is eating those so killed.

Can you provide some evidence for this statement, apart from government regulations about food that is left at a restaurant or some other regulated facility.

FYI, I have scolded my grandchildren for throwing away leftovers, rather than wrapping it up to eat later. We try to only throw away food that has spoiled, sometimes there is just too much to eat before that happens.

[Obvious Leo]

Can you provide some evidence for this statement,

It's been quoted that often in the literature, doc, that it's become a matter of common knowledge. However I have never bothered to research the truth or otherwise of it myself.

[FlashDangerpants]

The food wastage stat comes from the UN Food and Agriculture Organisation
http://www.fao.org/food-loss-and-food-waste/en/
It's fairly well established. A much higher proportion of food spoils before reaching market in low income nations due to poor infrastructure (refrigeration, decent roads etc).
Countries such as India in particular where there are few national logistics companies and supermarkets lose most of all.

The consumers there may be much less likely to buy stuff only to throw it away because it expired than those of us in rich countries. But this doesn't actually make up for the scale of the previous losses.

So there you have it. The key to ecological sustainability is basically Walmart.*


* that's a thought to take into account when deciding how to cast your vote in the pessimism thread.

[thedoc]

The food wastage stat comes from the UN Food and Agriculture Organisation
http://www.fao.org/food-loss-and-food-waste/en/
It's fairly well established. A much higher proportion of food spoils before reaching market in low income nations due to poor infrastructure (refrigeration, decent roads etc).
Countries such as India in particular where there are few national logistics companies and supermarkets lose most of all.

The consumers there may be much less likely to buy stuff only to throw it away because it expired than those of us in rich countries. But this doesn't actually make up for the scale of the previous losses.

So there you have it. The key to ecological sustainability is basically Walmart.*

* that's a thought to take into account when deciding how to cast your vote in the pessimism thread.

Thank you.

My wife works in a local supermarket and one of the scams is to buy food that is out of date, and then bring it back for the refund, which is about 2X the original price. People running the register don't have time to check each item for the expiration date, and people restocking the shelves sometimes miss an item.

[uwot]

People who oppose hunting, usually don't understand the dynamics of a wild animal population in an ares where there is a large population of humans.

No more or less than the people who support it.

Wild animals depend on the balance of predator and prey to keep both populations in control.

It's not that simple. Predation rarely has more than a negligible effect on population in 'natural' environments; most prey have evolved to be difficult to catch and, in the case of birds and mammals that humans typically hunt, protective of their young, so that it is often only the old or sick which are caught. Human hunters do not discriminate. Much more important to population is competition for resources; bringing up kids is as expensive and exhausting for the creatures that don't simply abandon their young as it is for humans. Creatures that don't nurture their young generally rely on numbers for survival, thus making a bounty of vulnerable little things, most of which gets gobbled up by grateful parents with hungry mouths to feed. On land, this is particularly true among invertebrates, which by and large aren't hunted by humans. Predation can have catastrophic effects on population where new species are introduced; the worst offenders are humans, the rats that follow us around and the cats we bring with us to control the rats. If your purpose in hunting is to do the world a favour, hunt them.

In certain areas wild predators have been eliminated or driven out of the area, so human hunters must replace those predators or the wild population of prey animals will increase out of control till the area is overpopulated and there is a die off of prey animals.

How many examples can you give of this happening?

A large number of dead prey animals is not healthy for anyone.

Is there a particular case you can refer to?

[thedoc]

My wife works in a local supermarket and one of the scams is to buy food that is out of date, and then bring it back for the refund, which is about 2X the original price. People running the register don't have time to check each item for the expiration date, and people restocking the shelves sometimes miss an item.

The supermarket in question has discontinued this practice because of the people who would take advantage of it. It was originally implemented to compensate those who made a mistake, not those who were trying to scam the system.

[thedoc]

In certain areas wild predators have been eliminated or driven out of the area, so human hunters must replace those predators or the wild population of prey animals will increase out of control till the area is overpopulated and there is a die off of prey animals.

How many examples can you give of this happening?

Pennsylvania.

[thedoc]

Wild animals depend on the balance of predator and prey to keep both populations in control.

It's not that simple. Predation rarely has more than a negligible effect on population in 'natural' environments; most prey have evolved to be difficult to catch and, in the case of birds and mammals that humans typically hunt, protective of their young, so that it is often only the old or sick which are caught. Human hunters do not discriminate. Much more important to population is competition for resources; bringing up kids is as expensive and exhausting for the creatures that don't simply abandon their young as it is for humans. Creatures that don't nurture their young generally rely on numbers for survival, thus making a bounty of vulnerable little things, most of which gets gobbled up by grateful parents with hungry mouths to feed. On land, this is particularly true among invertebrates, which by and large aren't hunted by humans. Predation can have catastrophic effects on population where new species are introduced; the worst offenders are humans, the rats that follow us around and the cats we bring with us to control the rats. If your purpose in hunting is to do the world a favour, hunt them.

You're right, predators can be eliminated with little effect except that uncontrolled by predation the population will increase till the animals strip the area of all food and then starvation will cull the herd much more effectively than predation.

There was a case of a hunt being challenged in New Jersey, but I can't find the story now. The hunt was challenged, and delayed pending the outcome of the case. In the mean time the deer population increased till the herd had stripped everything green within the reach of the deer. Everything starved, including all the other ground dwelling animals, the herd was decimated, and the court case was withdrawn by the game commission, who were trying to have the hunt. The group that opposed the hunt didn't really win, but they probably didn't care about the animals, just stopping the hunt.

[uwot]

How many examples can you give of this happening?

Pennsylvania.

So what happened in Pennsylvania? Is one example enough to establish a rule?

[thedoc]

How many examples can you give of this happening?

Pennsylvania.

So what happened in Pennsylvania? Is one example enough to establish a rule?

All the large predators were eliminated, and this is common in the eastern US, and should be a lesson for those trying to manage a wild population of animals. Animals do not control their own numbers.

[uwot]

All the large predators were eliminated, and this is common in the eastern US, and should be a lesson for those trying to manage a wild population of animals. Animals do not control their own numbers.

All the large predators were eliminated from the UK hundreds of years ago. Nothing much has happened to the numbers of their prey. Is the eastern US any different?

[thedoc]

All the large predators were eliminated, and this is common in the eastern US, and should be a lesson for those trying to manage a wild population of animals. Animals do not control their own numbers.

All the large predators were eliminated from the UK hundreds of years ago. Nothing much has happened to the numbers of their prey. Is the eastern US any different?

Just as in the US where hunting has replaced predation, hunting controls the size of the wild animal population in the UK.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunting_a ... ed_Kingdom

In the UK large predators were seen as competition to the hunters, so the hunters eliminated the competition.

[Obvious Leo]

Doc. Are you talking about wildlife management strategies being implemented by professionals according to a sustainable development plan or just ordinary rednecks racing around in SUVs in environmentally sensitive areas shooting everything that moves as well as lots of things that don't. Your amateur hunters seem to shoot more road signs, old cars, abandoned refrigerators, etc than they do animals, which are generally too smart for them.