CRIMES of EMPIRE

[Hobbes' Choice]

Next time you pat yourself on the back for being British, and better than any wog, consider the following:
Winston Churchill:
In 1919, he “planned and executed a sustained chemical attack on northern Russia”, according to Giles Milton at the Guardian. He even declared in one memorandum that he was “strongly in favour of using poisoned gas” against what he called “uncivilised tribes”.
Under the British empire, up to 29 million Indian people died of starvation as wheat was sent over to Britain in the midst of famine. In 1943, Churchill diverted medical aid and food away from starving citizens in British-controlled Bengal, sentencing around four million Bengalis to death in the process. He soon showed the callous racism behind his decision, saying “famine or no famine, Indians will breed like rabbits”.
And in 1944, the British army allegedly joined former Nazi collaborators in Greece in opening fire on Greek civilians. These citizens had been showing their support for the anti-fascist left-wingers with whom Britain had fought in previous years. Twenty-eight civilians were killed and hundreds more injured in this attack. Churchill’s justification was that the presence of communists in the resistance movement could jeopardise his hopes of returning the Greek king to power after the war.
British colonialism in general wasn’t much better

Here are some examples of why Churchill was not the only one responsible for colonial crimes:

During the Second Boer War (1899-1902), British forces detained tens of thousands of Boers in concentration camps. Almost 28 thousand of them died.
In India in 1919, peaceful protesters were blocked inside a walled complex and fired upon by the British army, in what is known as the Amritsar massacre. A thousand of these dissidents are thought to have been killed within 10 minutes during this mass execution.
In 1947, the carelessness of one colonial official resulted in the deaths of up to a million people in sectarian violence. Cyril Radcliffe was in charge of drawing up a border between India and Pakistan, a complex and delicate task which he undertook “over the course of a single lunch”.
In Kenya, British colonial forces allegedly raped and tortured thousands of members of the Kikuyu tribe during the Mau Mau Uprising (1951-1960). They were detained in camps described by some as “Britain’s gulags”, in which up to 100,000 may have died.
In short, the British empire committed numerous shameful acts in the twentieth century. And there is evidence to prove it. So when figures like Liam Fox claim that we do “not need to bury” this history, we should either be very worried or very angry.

There is nothing today that Britain can do to change its past, but the very least we can do is to ensure that past events are never repeated again. And for that to happen, we need to come to terms with the truth.

[Skip]

Not possible.
You can always get lots of official hand-wringing and "Mistakes were made"-ing and wreath-laying over crimes committed a century or two ago by people who are long dead and their policies have no (evident) connection with the present government. But you won't get them to admit of the things they did in 1995 or 2004 or last Tuesday.

[Arising_uk]

... So when figures like Liam Fox claim that we do “not need to bury” this history, we should either be very worried or very angry. ...

Eh!? I thought not burying it is what you wish?

There is nothing today that Britain can do to change its past, but the very least we can do is to ensure that past events are never repeated again. And for that to happen, we need to come to terms with the truth.

By-and-large and compared to many Imperial powers the British have at least not buried such things. All through the 70's and 80's it's Imperial past has been examined, maybe people have just forgotten. What is it you wish them to do and will you also publicise the good things it tried to do?

[Hobbes' Choice]

... So when figures like Liam Fox claim that we do “not need to bury” this history, we should either be very worried or very angry. ...

Eh!? I thought not burying it is what you wish?

There is nothing today that Britain can do to change its past, but the very least we can do is to ensure that past events are never repeated again. And for that to happen, we need to come to terms with the truth.

By-and-large and compared to many Imperial powers the British have at least not buried such things. All through the 70's and 80's it's Imperial past has been examined, maybe people have just forgotten. What is it you wish them to do and will you also publicise the good things it tried to do?

Compared to whom?

[Arising_uk]

Compared to whom?

The French, Italians, Dutch, Spanish, etc.

[Obvious Leo]

Compared to whom?

The French, Italians, Dutch, Spanish, etc.

This sort of comparative analysis of European colonial history has been a lively area of study and you certainly make a valid point. I doubt that there's much to distinguish between any of these imperial aspirants when it comes to the sheer inhumanity of their actions towards indigenous populations but the British did not seem to regard colonialism as a purely commercial venture. This was a significant motive for their actions but they also saw themselves as the rightful rulers of the world and thus sought to set up systems of government and bureaucratic administration which would keep the golden goose laying in perpetuity. In this sense the British were imperialists more along the lines of the Roman model than were the other European powers of the same era.

Although there remain some significant exceptions, most of the countries which were once British colonies still retain the functioning systems of government and administration which were bequeathed to them, whereas many of those which were originally colonised by other powers have remained failed states ever since. The Belgians were probably the worst.

[Hobbes' Choice]

Compared to whom?

The French, Italians, Dutch, Spanish, etc.

How would you know?

[Arising_uk]

How would you know?

Fair point, mainly hearsay from my French Partner and family, from my Italian and Dutch friends and I think the Spanish have enough trouble acknowledging Franco let alone further back. Also because Spain was pretty much a Fascist dictatorship right up until the 70's so not much peace and reconciliation with Empire I reckon, whereas the British during that time had much left-wing hand-wringing about Imperialism going on. Add to that that the British gave-up a lot of their Empire without much of a struggle whereas the others had some very nasty leavings.
p.s.
Although maybe the Dutch have done some, I'll have to ask again.

[Dubious]

Add to that that the British gave-up a lot of their Empire without much of a struggle whereas the others had some very nasty leavings.

One big reason for that - among others perhaps even more important - is they couldn't afford it any longer.

[Skip]

Crimes against humanity, oppression, repression, torture, burning villages, putting down revolts, maybe the odd atrocity and genocide - that's all part of making and maintaining an empire. The Mayan, Roman, Mali, Parthian, Macedonian, Moorish, Portuguese... whatever empire: with a few, relatively brief exceptions, they all came by it the same way and behaved more or less the same way once they had it. Comparisons of badness are not very useful. How many corpses, or how long you hang on, varies with the time period in which you held power and the size of the area held.

What might be of some consequence is what the 'world powers' are doing today and what they plan for next year.
Power doesn't retain itself, you know - it takes work...

[Dubious]

What might be of some consequence is what the 'world powers' are doing today and what they plan for next year.
Power doesn't retain itself, you know - it takes work...

...giving themselves more privileges and making themselves more immune to consequences they've enforced on others...as always.

[Skip]

But the worms always turn; the go-around always come around; the biter always get bit. Of all the lines in all the patriotic songs, my favourite is:

"Bri-tons never, never, never shall be slaves!"
Of-bloody-course they shall! Just as they have been before. In between, Britannia made some waves. (Though the ruling was not done, strictly speaking, by Britons.) Made other people slaves.
People singing the lost, endangered or hoped-for glory of their nation never seem to hear their own lyrics.

[Dubious]

People singing the lost, endangered or hoped-for glory of their nation never seem to hear their own lyrics.

The lyrics are lost in the music and it's always been My country right or wrong. Of course the Brits had more reason to sing in the days of Thomas Arne as far as empire was concerned. Right now they'd be happy if they just ruled the soccer field.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2iLA3h_u60

[Skip]

A really decent alien invader would spray the whole planet with a domination-neutralizing pheromone.

[Hobbes' Choice]

A really decent alien invader would spray the whole planet with a domination-neutralizing pheromone.

Any alien race sufficiently advanced to be able to reach earth would have no interest in anything the planet had to offer.