WHY can't the religions bring the mankind forward ?

[thedoc]

Religions can't "bring Man forward" because they can't find their prophet.

But it seems that religions have no trouble finding their profit.

You live in an era of vast deceit. Take care of choosing the guilty parties: "judge not lest..."

I understand that the leadership of a religion can only ask, it is the membership that makes the religion rich. And I don't judge anyone for donating to a particular church, it's their money not mine, I prefer to donate to some organization that offers help to those in need, and we have several in the area.

[SpheresOfBalance]

But pray tell, with things as they are, what's your solution?

Antinatalism, dumbass. Ceasing procreation until the problems melt away with us. Mine works. What solution do you have that's guaranteed to work?

Cum now, mayleck soft, I thought you weren't going to pay any attention to me? My decision to make, not your's. And as I told someone else before, my attention is always called when a dog follows me around the forum, barking at me, and trying to sniff my bollocks.

Your solution is asinine, attempting to counter the universes' decisions makes you a moron, as it can't be done! The universe does not make decisions; sentients do. The universe only unfolds. As to "can't be done", I didn't procreate, as 20% of the West didn't. So how is it impossible for the rest of humanity to do the same, when clearly it can be done, though I grant you, unlikely to be done?
Are you going to try and procure a nuke, to fix this problem, and you called me Dr Mengele, You are the only one suggesting or insinuating murder here. Not having children is clearly not murder. Look at my enclosed quote again, and tell me where I suggest killing anyone. I believe that is part of what you are not understanding; the difference between not starting existence, as opposed to ending it once its started. You mistake antinatalism as advocating the latter, when it only advocates the former. sheesh! I can clearly see that you don't know whether you're coming or going, huh?

Anyways, time to tell us your solution, as you asked of another, and haven't answered yourself.

PS. Would you care to know who else agrees with me? Another moron by the name of Aristotle, one of the founders of Western philosophy who, as it turns out, also happened to be an antinatalist.

Wretched, ephemeral race, children of chance and tribulation, why do you force me to tell you the very thing which it would be most profitable for you not to hear? The very best thing is utterly beyond your reach: not to have been born, not to be, to be nothing. However, the second best thing for you is: to die soon.

Heck, he even goes further than I in advocating a short life. I feel in good company.

Apparently you have hero's that you worship, taking their words for granted because of that worship. Which has nothing necessarily to do with the truth contained within their words. To not procreate is a personal decision, not a universal directive, quite the contrary, that the universe created us, is the closest thing you'll ever get, as far as direction goes. But Like I've said, I too believe that humans must BALANCE things, especially our populations, for the ultimate welfare of all life contained in this symbiotic biosphere.

So I'm kinda on your side, I just see you as an extremist! Largely because you apparently fail to see the beauty of life, as the univeres' crowning achievement, that it is.

[SpheresOfBalance]

I've been wondering the same thing myself, arising. Logic is simply a binary proposition in that a statement is either logical or it isn't. Being a little bit logical is probably like being a little bit pregnant.

Sorry about you and arisings problem with logic. Logic is only as good as it's premises, and premises are subject to knowledge/ignorance, thus, garbage in, garbage out. I believe that's what maden's up about. His god would be all knowing, thus all premises would be 100% sound, thus his logic. Humans being as young as we are, would have some false logic because it's based upon false premises.

[SpheresOfBalance]

OF COURSE THERE IS UNIMAGINABLE SUPERIOR LOGIC AND POWER ! ! !

Then you can't imagine it?

There may well be superior power but Logic is Logic and even 'God' has to follow it. That you think there is a superior one is just because you don't understand Logic.

Otherwise N O T H I N G would exist ! You are only m u c h too blind and corrupt and ill to be able to see it ! WAKE UP ! ( you are able to see

it , IF YOU REALLY WANT !

Have you thought that it might always have existed?

The creator of the universe has given the ability to you as he has given it to me !

And if there is no creator and the universe has always existed and always will, what then for you?

As usual you carry the logic torch, but always fail to solidly make a valid point, because when pressed, all you can muster are logical forms as variables. You fear supplying constants, because you know that one may be able to rip them to shreds. That ones logic has many holes, when their premises do. So how's that logic 'god' of yours doing?

[JSS]

I understand that the leadership of a religion can only ask, it is the membership that makes the religion rich. And I don't judge anyone for donating to a particular church, it's their money not mine, I prefer to donate to some organization that offers help to those in need, and we have several in the area.

How would you know if they are not using those funds to fend off an adversary of which you are not aware, a need of which you cannot see, because they are keeping it at bay?

If I use donations to prevent cancer entirely, how would you know that cancer was an issue to donate prevention funds to?

Christianity, specifically, was founded as a defense against things you have never experienced because Christianity worked. Take down the walls, and see your REAL adversary.

Similarly with a good military. How do you know how bad the enemy can get, if your military is very good at keeping you safe from them? Do you disarm because the enemy doesn't seem to be a threat any more? Remove your defenses and find out just how totally hopeless you become.

[SpheresOfBalance]

Learn thinking ( exact simple ) logically !

God cannot be the first thing. Simple logic.
Intelligence and consciousness are complex and can only have emerged from aeons of evolved organisation. Simple logic.
Thus our skill of perception, thinking, and logic, can only have come late in the universe.
We have no reason to think that the universe began with intelligence, and every reason to suppose it cannot have.

Your skill at argumentation is poor.
Your logic is faulty,
And you intelligence is limited.
No one is convinced about your version of God; not even the Theists on the Forum.
QED : You are wasting your time.
My advise to you: go away and find a Forum that will listen to your demented ramblings.

Try this one: They'll love you.

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?P ... 7n5vahasv0&

False logic!! As you only speculate, there is no proof either way. I would argue that because we have, so called, Intelligence and consciousness, it lends to the possibility of there being others of Intelligence and consciousness, and that since we can create, the same applies to creation. Why not that something like us came before us, and that in fact is exactly the reason for us being. Unless one is so damned stuck on themselves as being so damned special, such that they want/desire being the first, the only ones! Self pride sometimes a very evil virtue, that precludes ones vision of possibility and probability, such that they present speculation as if it's necessarily certainly the case.

[Arising_uk]

Learn thinking ( exact simple ) logically !

Try and explain your logical thinking?

[Arising_uk]

I pity you . But I cannot help you . I can only say the truth .

Why do you think we can't?

[Arising_uk]

... And the creator wants to help you ( and the mankind ) ...!

How do you know this?

[Arising_uk]

Sorry about you and arisings problem with logic. Logic is only as good as it's premises, and premises are subject to knowledge/ignorance, thus, garbage in, garbage out. I believe that's what maden's up about. His god would be all knowing, thus all premises would be 100% sound, thus his logic. Humans being as young as we are, would have some false logic because it's based upon false premises.

As usual you display your complete ignorance of the one subject that is truly Philosophy's, Logic.

[Arising_uk]

As usual you carry the logic torch, but always fail to solidly make a valid point, because when pressed, all you can muster are logical forms as variables. ...

Variables that apply to all existence and existents.

You fear supplying constants, because you know that one may be able to rip them to shreds. ...

What are you babbling about, apply any constant you like to the logical tautologies and contradictions and they hold.

That ones logic has many holes, when their premises do.

What is this faulty premise you think I have?

So how's that logic 'god' of yours doing?

As it has since existence existed, validly and in some cases absolute truth and falsity.

[SpheresOfBalance]

Sorry about you and arisings problem with logic. Logic is only as good as it's premises, and premises are subject to knowledge/ignorance, thus, garbage in, garbage out. I believe that's what maden's up about. His god would be all knowing, thus all premises would be 100% sound, thus his logic. Humans being as young as we are, would have some false logic because it's based upon false premises.

As usual you display your complete ignorance of the one subject that is truly Philosophy's, Logic.

Just because you can create a declarative statement doesn’t make it's contents true. I'm beginning to think there's never been anyone as ignorant as you, as your contradiction knows no bounds, and your sidestepping avoidance makes you a laughing stock. Or at least one that fears backing their statements with any kind of real proof. I expect much more from someone who claims to have studied as much. You're the queen of bait and switch!

[SpheresOfBalance]

As usual you carry the logic torch, but always fail to solidly make a valid point, because when pressed, all you can muster are logical forms as variables. ...

Variables that apply to all existence and existents.

You fear supplying constants, because you know that one may be able to rip them to shreds. ...

What are you babbling about, apply any constant you like to the logical tautologies and contradictions and they hold.

That ones logic has many holes, when their premises do.

What is this faulty premise you think I have?

So how's that logic 'god' of yours doing?

As it has since existence existed, validly and in some cases absolute truth and falsity.

Same old tired crap from you. I don't believe you could prove anything, probably due to your denial, as shown by your attempting to program yourself with that pseudo-science. It's no wonder your head is a swirling vortex of misconception. I really don't know how you could ever have believed that ones meaning could ever be contained in any response you might be capable of formulating. Wait... Yes, How could I have even started such a line of thought, as it's clear that your confusion is exactly the reason you believe you could do such a thing! You know, dictionaries, NLP and all.

[manden]

If you really want to grasp what I say about the real creator of the universe , you must try to recognize the EXISTENCE of the creator at his

creation ( I needed with all my strength and will , completely honest to myself , with reason and logic , and I could make free from the influence

of the manmade religions and this corrupt world , till now almost 62 years , at last 12 years intensive search ) .

And you think that is a easy thing ! You need A L L what you have !

[JSS]

If you really want to grasp what I say about the real creator of the universe , you must try to recognize the EXISTENCE of the creator at his

creation ( I needed with all my strength and will , completely honest to myself , with reason and logic , and I could make free from the influence

of the manmade religions and this corrupt world , till now almost 62 years , at last 12 years intensive search ) .

And you think that is a easy thing ! You need A L L what you have !

... been there, done that .. more years than you it seems.