~ The Case For Socialism ~

[bobevenson]

Yeah, go ahead and tell me that today's aborigines think the same way as their ancestors did 60,000 years ago.

[Obvious Leo]

Bob. The most reliable evidence for human settlement on this continent suggests that it probably occurred in three distinctly separate waves of migration which occurred at least 10,000 years apart and that these ethnic sub-groups subsequently merged into the approximately homogeneous population which existed at the time of European invasion. I say approximately because there are still distinct physical differences between different tribal groups and the cultural and language differences across the continent are huge. They were all nomadic hunter-gatherers but they did manipulate their natural environment with the use of fire to make the land more productive.

[Obvious Leo]

Yeah, go ahead and tell me that today's aborigines think the same way as their ancestors did 60,000 years ago.

I doubt if they even think the same way as they thought yesterday, you fucking moron. Do you?

[bobevenson]

Yeah, go ahead and tell me that today's aborigines think the same way as their ancestors did 60,000 years ago.

I doubt if they even think the same way as they thought yesterday, you fucking moron. Do you?

The Australian aborigines had a far more sophisticated relationship with the land than any of the modern societies in the world do. To them the land was not something which could be owned because it was the provider of all their physical needs. Instead of seeing themselves as owners of the land they saw themselves as merely custodians of it whose responsibility it was to manage the land in such a way that it could provide for the physical needs of future generations indefinitely. They lived on this continent for 60,000 years before the European invasion and barely put a mark on the place in that entire time. In a little over two centuries since colonisation the arid regions have doubled in area and the Australian ecosystem has experienced the highest rate of species extinction since the Cretaceous-Paleogene event which wiped out the dinosaurs. Capitalism has not been a resounding success here for the people who could actually teach us how live in the joint.

Why don't you just retract the above post, you godforsaken idiot!

[Obvious Leo]

I stand by every word of it.

[Bill Wiltrack]

.



Wait a minute...


Who showed you how to use Wikipedia?


Look, I like you better as the mad-capped, emotional, screaming, train-wreck of a jackass.


DON'T FUCK WITH FACTS. - It's just not you.


Go back to your asinine foul-mouthed cursing rants.


Don't EVER fuck with facts again - JUST DON'T DO IT!!!



...Yours truly.








.

[bobevenson]

I stand by every word of it.

First you tell me the way aborigines thought 60,000 years ago, and now you tell me they don't think the same way two days in a row. See a doctor, my friend, no, a team of doctors!

[Obvious Leo]

I stand by every word of it.

First you tell me the way aborigines thought 60,000 years ago, and now you tell me they don't think the same way two days in a row. See a doctor, my friend, no, a team of doctors!

Why don't you reread what I wrote instead of translating my words to accord with your own unknowable agenda. I didn't say a word about how the aborigines thought 60,000 years ago. I spoke of how they successfully managed the land for 60,000 years without any concept whatsoever of land "ownership". Even in modern aboriginal culture the very idea of human beings owning land is a concept of spectacular absurdity. In fact in the more remote and traditional communities the notion of the personal ownership of anything at all is seen as rather absurd. It's not hard to see how they were sitting ducks for exploitation by the rapacious European invaders. The poor bastards never stood a chance but they'd got along just fine for 60,000 years without having to "own" a fucking thing. THAT is the point I was making.

[SpheresOfBalance]

Bob,

Leo believes in the 'noble savage'...same dumb myth is promoted in the U.S. about Indians (oh, excuse me, 'Native Americans' ).

Only reason the 'noble savages' of the world didn't 'rape' the land like them debbil capitalists is cuz all the noble savages had were sticks, rocks, fists, and fire. Hop in your DeLorean, go back, give the 'noble savages' some technology, watch 'em go nuts on the land, the air, the water. Who needs 'dreamtime' when you got the widescreen and cable?
I like that crystal ball you're sporting, What else does it tell you? Does it get the yet to happen future as well?

In fact, you're just justifying that portion of your life, that you took from all the possibilities that were laid out before you, as you "grew?" with your selections, because god forbid, you made the wrong choices. It's a common flaw in the human psyche, a need to justify itself at all costs, or it withers and dies. As ones insanity might only be, one internal conflict away, I'd be careful if I were you. How many swirling vortexes are spinning around in your head?

The people that killed off the American Indian, did so with things of their time, of their world that they left behind, one Atlantic Ocean away! No need to time travel tard, the truths of both cultures in that time, their time, are equally known, by anyone that cares to read and understand. To try and mingle the now with the past is in fact a fools game, containing far too many variables for such a small mind to understand, let alone account for.

Poop on your 'noble savage', Leo.
You're also caught up with definitions of things you really don't know much about. So in order to mimic your assertion, You are seemingly a very non noble savage. Definitely a savage, so I'm left wondering what you're actually capable of understanding, in it's truest light of course.

There is a very BIG difference between running away from the turmoil that is modern man's society, because it's less than you, and running away with shotgun in hand because it's more than you. Take a look in your crystal ball, I believe you'll actually only ever find yourself staring back at you.

Of course you're always free to hypothesize, theorize, about anything you don't understand. I'll fight for your right. Whoops, actually I already have!

Sorry HQ, I'm a little touchy when someone fucks with the memory of all the murdered relatively helpless Native Americans of the white mans foolishness. Watch me use your crystal ball and quite possibly your time machine, and go back giving the Native Americans the slight technical advantage, that would be a hoot, to see how America would be today, with all the white trash on the reservations instead, though I have I distinct feeling that the Native Americans wouldn't have it that way, instead giving those freaks of nature their freedom to walk peacefully among them, that is as long as they respected mother nature, as any wise human should!

As to the topic at hand:

United we stand,
Divided we fall!

A "Brotherhood of Man."

[SpheresOfBalance]

"so where can you go to actually live freely?"

Seems to me, right now, I can go all kinds of places and buy or rent all kinds of shelter.

Ain't nuthin' 'free' (unless you're a parasite who expects some one else to foot the tab for your living).

Are you a parasite, SoB? Sometimes you sound like one, other times you don't.

Are you a fool HQ, because most often you sound like one!

That there is a need to buy or rent is a man made concept, full of fear and selfishness!

[SpheresOfBalance]

uwot,

Mebbe you wanna go back and read what I posted (on land ownership, for example) before givin' me the dress down.

As for the promoters of communitarianism: the democrats are lousy with 'em. Elizabeth Warren comes to mind.

As to my paranoia: it's well-founded (sez the bear outside the chute, to the sheep inside the chute, being led to the slaughter).

Oh yeah, the fear of claiming to be a wolf (bear) instead of a sheep. You supposed observation, is merely an illusion based upon your, unfounded fear, anxiety anyone?

Sorry I forgot to mention your selfishness as well.

[SpheresOfBalance]

What the fuck do you or anybody else really know about Australian aborigines, people who lived in your godforsaken country 60,000 years ago? Get out of your fucking fantasy world, OK?

Are you mental bob? They were still there 200 odd years ago when the British landed.

"The relationship between modern Indigenous Australians and Australia's earliest inhabitants remains a matter of scholarly debate. The earliest definite human remains found to date in Australia are those of Mungo Man, which have been dated at about 40,000 years old, but comparison of the mitochondrial DNA with that of ancient and modern Aborigines indicates that Mungo Man is unrelated to any modern Indigenous Australians. The time of arrival of humans in Australia is also a matter of debate among researchers, with estimates dating back as far as 125,000 years ago." -Wikipedia

Then not quite definite! Can you say, "swampland?"

[SpheresOfBalance]

Are you mental bob?

Are you serious, K?

I agree! That's a given, right?

[SpheresOfBalance]

I stand by every word of it.

First you tell me the way aborigines thought 60,000 years ago, and now you tell me they don't think the same way two days in a row. See a doctor, my friend, no, a team of doctors!

Why don't you reread what I wrote instead of translating my words to accord with your own unknowable agenda. I didn't say a word about how the aborigines thought 60,000 years ago. I spoke of how they successfully managed the land for 60,000 years without any concept whatsoever of land "ownership". Even in modern aboriginal culture the very idea of human beings owning land is a concept of spectacular absurdity. In fact in the more remote and traditional communities the notion of the personal ownership of anything at all is seen as rather absurd. It's not hard to see how they were sitting ducks for exploitation by the rapacious European invaders. The poor bastards never stood a chance but they'd got along just fine for 60,000 years without having to "own" a fucking thing. THAT is the point I was making.

Leo, Bob's a fucking screaming idiot, most of the time, though I'll certainly defend his right to be so. He believes he's a prophet for gods sake, "what a maroon!" I try and help him with his thinking, but then I realize, again, that he's a lost cause. So I go back to humoring him. That is until he even further exemplifies his inadequacies, as I try and help him yet again, a vicious circle.

You'd think, I'd give up on him. I guess I'm just far to filled with hope; "Woe, is me!"

Bob, I'm really sorry for joining in the fray, us playing king of the mountain, with you as it's foundation. But you do play the part so well! Sometimes it's just irresistible.

[Obvious Leo]

Leo, Bob's a fucking screaming idiot, most of the time, though I'll certainly defend his right to be so. He believes he's a prophet for gods sake,

I see him more as a devil's advocate pointing out some of the more obvious absurdities in the modern world. The world which he advocates is an abstraction which runs counter to the basic facts of our evolutionary biology and is therefore one which must inevitably lead to the extinction of homo sapiens as a species. It was our ability to evolve collectively which allowed us to claw our way to the top of the tree of sentience in the biosphere and thus establish ourselves as the uber-predator on the planet but it is this very same intelligence which will ultimately drive us into oblivion if we don't learn to use it as a collective.

I make this statement as a biologist and not as a political ideologue because political ideologies come and go in accordance with the fashion of the day. We cannot be other than what we are and what we are is a social animal.