~ The Case For Socialism ~

[henry quirk]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_ea ... _his_needs

From the article...

I. Nothing in society will belong to anyone, either as a personal possession or as capital goods, except the things for which the person has immediate use, for either his needs, his pleasures, or his daily work.

II. Every citizen will be a public man, sustained by, supported by, and occupied at the public expense.

III. Every citizen will make his particular contribution to the activities of the community according to his capacity, his talent and his age; it is on this basis that his duties will be determined, in conformity with the distributive laws.

Is this what you want?

[uwot]

Not seein' how voluntary associations are synonomous with being directed or controlled.

What I do here and there is wholly my concern...I participate as much or little as I choose, in the way I choose. 'From each according to ability, to each according to need' doesn't really let a body pick his level or method of participation.

You see the difference, yes?

Neither of us live in a totalitarian state. If you or I chose to exclude ourselves from the advantages of shared accomplishment and the commitment that demands, we could do so. Neither the US nor the UK have agencies that will force you to abide by their demands, provided you are not a nuisance to other people. Everybody in a democracy such as the two you and I live in, picks their level and method of participation, consciously or, more often, not.

[uwot]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_ea ... _his_needs

From the article...

I. Nothing in society will belong to anyone, either as a personal possession or as capital goods, except the things for which the person has immediate use, for either his needs, his pleasures, or his daily work.

II. Every citizen will be a public man, sustained by, supported by, and occupied at the public expense.

III. Every citizen will make his particular contribution to the activities of the community according to his capacity, his talent and his age; it is on this basis that his duties will be determined, in conformity with the distributive laws.

Is this what you want?

Do you mean me? Do you know of any major party, in any developed democracy that is advocating that?

[Obvious Leo]

Do you mean me? Do you know of any major party, in any developed democracy that is advocating that?

Henry is trapped in a time warp, as are many of his countrymen. Applying 19th century labels to 21st century systems of political thought does not make for a good understanding of the general principles under discussion.

[Impenitent]

Neither of us live in a totalitarian state. If you or I chose to exclude ourselves from the advantages of shared accomplishment and the commitment that demands, we could do so. Neither the US nor the UK have agencies that will force you to abide by their demands, provided you are not a nuisance to other people. Everybody in a democracy such as the two you and I live in, picks their level and method of participation, consciously or, more often, not.

nope, no one ever does time for tax evasion...

-Imp

[uwot]

no one ever does time for tax evasion...

-Imp

If paying tax bothers you, you are free to go and live in the hills or on the street, but if you want to take advantage of the infrastructure and services that others provide, they are entitled to charge you; even if, like workers in health, education, law enforcement, defence, civic planning and construction, etc, they do this by proxy.

[Impenitent]

no one ever does time for tax evasion...

-Imp

If paying tax bothers you, you are free to go and live in the hills or on the street, but if you want to take advantage of the infrastructure and services that others provide, they are entitled to charge you; even if, like workers in health, education, law enforcement, defence, civic planning and construction, etc, they do this by proxy.

Neither the US nor the UK have agencies that will force you to abide by their demands

entitled to charge you by force... and don't worry, there is not a square inch of "un-owned" land that you are "free" to occupy

-Imp

[henry quirk]

"Neither of us live in a totalitarian state."

Never said we did....but we're a damn sight closer than some folks wanna admit.

#

"Applying 19th century labels to 21st century systems of political thought..."

Gimme a break...the labels work cuz the thinking is exactly the same.

Your "21st century systems of political thought" is nuthin' new...same manure.

#

"If paying tax bothers you..."

As I've said before, I'm all for paying for services and products I use...gotta a big problem, however, paying prices I can't haggle over or shop around for, paying for the products and services 'you' use, and paying for stuff I have no use for.

Imagine: there's only one grocery...the place charges ten bucks for a gallon of milk (currently, I can get one for five or less, if I shop around)...when I pluck down my ten for my gallon, I also have to cough up another five to pitch in and help the other guy buy his milk too (cuz, for whatever reason, he has no cash to buy his own)...I like whole milk but the place only sells the one percent kind, and if I complain about having only one outlet, about the inflated price, about paying for a stranger, and about not getting what I want, then I'm 'incorrect' in my thinking, being 'primitive' or 'criminal' in my thinking, being 'selfish' in my thinking.

[henry quirk]

"Do you know of any major party, in any developed democracy that is advocating that?"

You're kiddin', right?

For the Left (and the Right), anywhere you care to name, it's the end point, the goal.

This...

I. Nothing in society will belong to anyone, either as a personal possession or as capital goods, except the things for which the person has immediate use, for either his needs, his pleasures, or his daily work.

II. Every citizen will be a public man, sustained by, supported by, and occupied at the public expense.

III. Every citizen will make his particular contribution to the activities of the community according to his capacity, his talent and his age; it is on this basis that his duties will be determined, in conformity with the distributive laws.

...is exactly what they advocate.

Hell, 'III' is written all over your posts about taxes...you see this, yes?

[Bill Wiltrack]

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Don't know what you are quoting from or defining but...


#1 - We have entered already into a digital revolution. Part of the premise of this exciting time is that information is the new currency; the new capital. So - information capital is a benchmark for now and into the foreseeable future. So nothing of value will belong to anyone in particular.


#2 - Most every individual is now supported by public expense. And this trend will only continue and accelerate as the end of work becomes more and more common because of advances in technology.



#3 - Every citizen makes his own contribution to society according to their own ability right now.




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[henry quirk]

The link I quote from is up-thread.

And: you're missin' my point, Bill (intentionally, I'm sure, just like the other communitarians in-thread).

[Bill Wiltrack]

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No doubt I could have misunderstood you. From your past posts I realize I have a hard time following your train of thought.


Case in point - the word communitarians. What language is this? Could not find communitarians in any Google or Wiki search...




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[henry quirk]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communitarianism

[Bill Wiltrack]

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Communitarianism


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Not to be confused with Communism.


Communitarianism is a philosophy that emphasizes the connection between the individual and the community.

Although the community might be a family unit, communitarianism usually is understood, in the wider, philosophical sense, as a collection of interactions, among a community of people in a given place (geographical location), or among a community who share an interest or who share a history.

Communitarian philosophy is based upon the belief that a person's social identity and personality are largely molded by community relationships : with a smaller degree of development being placed on individualism.





Cool...


Thank you.






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[henry quirk]

No. Not cool.

Horrific.