~ The Case For Socialism ~

[Hobbes' Choice]

According to leo, up-thread...

The 20 trillion dollars was STOLEN from the citizens of America by corporate gangsters who placed themselves beyond the reach of the law by taking the precaution of buying the government first.

What leo wants bob to believe is this happened because of a market economy.

I think leo is wrong cuz America hasn't had anything approaching an open or unrestrained or 'free' market in years. We've some half-assed hybrid that most closely resembles a loose socialism, a filthy mutate 'thing'.

But, fuck it...socialism is what you want and socialism is what you'll have....'the people', however, will continue to be exactly what they are, so don't be expecting utopia to spring up around your ears. Instead, work hard to get on the local politburo...that's where those who're a little more 'equal' than the common rabble will be found.

It happened because of a frenzy of de-regulation which enabled the financial markets to invent fraudulent financial products which were crypto-ponzi schemes and irresponsible mortgage products.
But the real crime was to not let these kill the marketeers when they crashed the banks but to instead bail-out those fuckers with billions which ordinary people were expected to pay for.
With a few exceptions the bankers were allowed to fuck off with their personal fortunes whilst the people were left holding the mutant baby.
In Iceland, I understand, they prosecuted the bankers and now their economy is the most healthy in the western world.

Meanwhile we are being told to blame it all on the unemployed, benefit seekers, and migrants. FUCK ALL THAT.

[Hobbes' Choice]

Exactly what does Denmark make besides cookies?

Lego. You could make yourself a brain.

Cookies and Lego. Yeah, that sounds like a country you want to hitch your wagon to.

They are smart enough to know that a healthy economy is about keeping money moving through the system. A large public sector works well for them by absorbing the loose capacity and keeping people in work how pay taxes enabled by the government spending on the local economy rather than what happens in the US - Americans buy lego and SONY and Toyota.
The US is a fucking joke; They'd rather keep millions on prison working for slave wages, than provide decent jobs and housing.

[bobevenson]

The U.S. is the world's only superpower, and you're the world's biggest joke.

[henry quirk]

Bob,

Don't go dissin' the Legos...me and the nine year old love them things...he's quite the master builder...his latest construct is a fire engine space ship.

We also love all the things that extend out of Legos: movies, games, etc.

Insofar as I can tell, The Lego Group is successful, publicly responsible, and doesn't take a dime of 'corporate welfare'.

No one has to bail them out; they apparently don't want or need bailing out.

Good on them, I say.

#

Leo,

Regarding Denmark: as I've said a few times in-forum, I'm all for folks organizing themselves as they see fit. If the people of Denmark wanna live in a habitrail, that's fine by me. Pretty sure America is heading to the same place, and if that's what Americans want (and I think it is), good on them. An exceedingly small number of throwbacks, like me, will be left on in the cold, of course, but...*shrug*...too bad for us.

The glory days of the communitarian are just around the corner.

[Bill Wiltrack]

.




Communitarianism:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not to be confused with Communism.




Communitarianism is a philosophy that emphasizes the connection between the individual and the community.

Although the community might be a family unit, communitarianism usually is understood, in the wider, philosophical sense, as a collection of interactions, among a community of people in a given place (geographical location), or among a community who share an interest or who share a history.

Communitarian philosophy is based upon the belief that a person's social identity and personality are largely molded by community relationships : with a smaller degree of development being placed on individualism.







.

[bobevenson]

If the people of Denmark wanna live in a habitrail, that's fine by me.

What's a "habitrail"?

[henry quirk]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habitrail

From the piece...

Habitrail, a product made by the Hagen corporation, is a series of translucent plastic tubes and "houses" for use in home terrariums, designed specially for small pets, such as mice or hamsters. The design of the Habitrail is modular and can be configured however the owner likes, as well as disassembled for cleaning. The Habitrail is meant to mimic the habitat of the animal in question...

[henry quirk]

Bill,

Yep. The small section you posted is, in itself, all the reason I need to oppose the communitarians (not that my opposition makes any difference).

[mcg265]

Socialism is based on the idea that we should use the vast resources of society to meet people’s needs.

Isn't this exactly what Capitalism does? As Capitalists want to make money they sell what people need. How does Socialism know what people need?

[henry quirk]

"How does Socialism know what people need?"

Easy...'from each according to ability, to each according to need'.

Problem is: the socialist thinks humans are fundamentally 'good' and 'selfless'...the socialist believes folks get grubby and selfish only cuz of the debbil 'capitalism' and capitalism's older, wiser brother 'the free/open/unrestrained market'.

What no socialist can abide is the idea that self-interest is normal and natural, that altruism is horse manure, and that the market place (the point of transaction) is the most evolved way for humans to thrive. And, because the socialist cannot abide the market (unless it's 'controlled') he does everything he can to castrate it, and, to make folks dependent on 'authority'.

Really, though, the socialist is just a subset of 'communitarianism', a vast disease that encompasses all political parties and ideologies.

The surest symptom of this disease is how easily 'we' is used, and how difficult it is to find any interest in 'the one'.

No matter the professed politics, if a body talks of governance instead of proxyhood, if a body associates with the many instead of the one, if a body encourages the fingers of authority be in every one's pie, if a body earnestly tells you he know what you need or wants better than you do, then that body is a communitarian...just about the worst thing one can be, on par with pedophiles and rapists.

[Walker]

Bernie, how could you!

http://blurbrain.com/bernie-sanders-cau ... to-family/

[SpheresOfBalance]

This is an impressive suite of freedoms awarded to the plutocracy but no mention is made of the freedoms which are thereby denied to every other bastard, Bob. What about the poor fucker who has to work for slave wages under dangerous conditions so that these arseholes can stash their loot into various tax-free havens around the world. What happened to his freedom, or indeed his right to the pursuit of happiness?

Hear, hear, Leo! My Words the same as yours on this one:

"The Man in the suit in the penthouse, that only has to worry about a paper cut, as paper is the only reason he fools himself into believing he deserves a million dollar a year salary, as with such a job he has no hint as to why he might require lots of money to maintain his health as he ages; while the man in tattered jeans in the basement, works with the sulfuric acid required to make that paper, can own no paper that explains why he should only make minimum wage, in all actuality having all the reasons in the world of knowledge, to know why he shall almost certainly require loads of money to maintain his health as he ages, yet his lack of paper holds him ignorant of such knowledge, because of money, a glittering prize for a once dumb monkey, sparkling in the bright sunlight of wonder, turned dark indeed, by selfish desire!"

If only humans would cooperate, they'd be unstoppable, and way ahead of their time, quite the opposite of the actual current truth of things. As in truth, the glittering prize to the eyes of a dumb monkey, should have only lasted for one generation, tops, as the foolhardiness that it actually is. If only the me, me, me could be left behind for the we, we, we; we'd be where we should be, or maybe rather, were we'd be the brightest that we ever could be! Humane, huh!!!!!!!!

The aim to maintain commoners ignorance, so as to control, once thought only to be a tactic of the church, was actually fully absorbed by governments all those years ago, it was birthed simultaneously by both factions. The mind of the blinded dumb monkey run-a-muck!

Here people, take these 'free' loafs of bread while you watch the gladiators kill one another, for your sport! (dumb monkeys on both sides)

And so it's been and mutated, to what it is today! Yet today there has been plenty of:
(free) air, no matter how dirty it's become, because it can't be controlled;
costly, just as dirty water, which is filtered, justification? Or paying for it twice?
costly, just as dirty food, genetically modified and laced with petrochemicals, cover-up?
Or is it all paying for uncontrolled dumb monkey desires?

It should never have been about whether we 'could,' that's dumb monkey shit.
It should have always been about whether we 'should,' that's the road to true evolution, a much more intelligent human! One that I could actually be proud of.

And so I leave you all, some that get it, and some that are dumbfounded, with two great tunes that have helped me understand such things, one's clearly rock while the other softer rock, one's a Brit while the other an American, not that it really matters, in keeping with my theme, it's just for those that just don't get it, so they might take some pride that they really don't deserve.

So for you 'us and them' people:

First the Brit: Dave Mason, born in Worcester, England (If you don't like the lyrics, I'm sure you 'us and them' people shall find something wrong with Worcester, England, it's your mental 'Us and Them' justification thing.)

You Can't Take it When You Go:

Don't try to possess me
I'll slip from your grasp
the things that you seek
have already passed
in rushing to own everything that's in sight
nothing is left
no, not even your life

You can't take it when you go
that's something that you oughta know
Love isn't counted in gold
only in heart and soul

Lies can't hurt
at least that's what you say
but there'll bring confusion
as sure as night turns to day
truth is a feeling you just can't deceive
life's an illusion
when you don't believe

You can't take it when you go
there's something that you oughta know
Love isn't counted in gold
only in heart and soul

(Instrument Solos)

You can't take it when you go
there's something that you oughta know
Love isn't counted in gold
only in heart and soul

Over and under
day after day
life's precious moments are wasted away
if dreams are the schemes on which future's are made
dream on sweet dreamer
til you reach your grave

You can't take it when you go
there's something that you oughta know
Love isn't counted in gold
only in heart and soul

gut wrenching yell

(more of Dave's guitar)

Awesome, tell em Dave!

Second the American: Dan Fogelberg (with Tim Weisberg of Hollywood, California, USA), born in Peoria, Illinois, United States (If you don't like the lyrics, I'm sure you 'us and them' people shall find something wrong with Peoria, Illinois, United States, it's your mental 'Us and Them' justification thing.)

The Power of Gold:

The story is told of the
Power of gold
And its lure on the unsuspecting
It glitters and shines
It badgers and blinds
And constantly needs protecting.

Balance the cost of the soul you lost
With the dreams you lightly sold
Are you under
The power of gold?

The letters and calls
Got you climbing the walls
And everyone wants a favor
They beg to remind you
Of times left behind you
But you know the past is a loser.

The face you're wearing is different now
And the days run hot and cold
Are you under
The power of gold?

The power of gold!

(Dan's guitar solo)

You're a creature of habit
Run like a rabbit
Scared of a fear you can't name
Your own paranoia
Is looming before you
But nobody thinks that
It's a game.

Balance the cost of the soul you lost
With the dreams you lightly sold
Then tell me
That you're free
Of the power of gold.

The Power of gold!

(More of Dan's guitar)

The women are lovely
The wine is superb
But there's something about the song
That disturbs you...

The women are lovely
The wine is superb
But there's something about the song
That disturbs you...

The women are lovely
The wine is superb
But there's something about the song
That disturbs you...

The women are lovely
The wine is superb
But there's something about the song
That disturbs you...

The women are lovely
The wine is superb
But there's something about the song
That disturbs you...

The women are lovely
The wine is superb
But there's something about the song
That disturbs you...

Awesome, tell em Dan!

And so, I rest my case!

Merely a naked ape, that doesn't understand what that glittering prize actually is!

[henry quirk]

"(the) glittering prize" for the communitarian is 'from each according to ability, to each according to need'.

For a small few, howver, the prize is being 'left alone', sumthin' communitarians (be they on the Left or Right) don't understand and cannot allow.

[uwot]

For a small few, howver, the prize is being 'left alone', sumthin' communitarians (be they on the Left or Right) don't understand and cannot allow.

What I don't understand is that if communities are not something you wish to be a part of, why do you engage with them? Here and BlowThyself, for example?

[henry quirk]

Not seein' how voluntary associations are synonomous with being directed or controlled.

What I do here and there is wholly my concern...I participate as much or little as I choose, in the way I choose. 'From each according to ability, to each according to need' doesn't really let a body pick his level or method of participation.

You see the difference, yes?