Military Draft

[bobevenson]

Economist Walter Williams said to me that he always refers to the military draft as a confiscation of labor services. I told him, "I guess that's a nicer term than slavery."

[wtf]

The abolition of the draft in the US led to one of the great unintended consequences I've seen. Namely, that the American public pays little or no attention to all the covert and semi-covert wars the government is involved in. When it was Middle America's kids getting drafted and sent off to die in Vietnam, the public (eventually) stopped the war. With the volunteer army, there is nobody to stop the wars. That's why we've been in Afghanistan for 14 years, Iraq for 13, and we're starting new wars all the time.

[bobevenson]

The draft has not been eliminated, my friend. In fact, it can come back to haunt us tomorrow. That is why a U.S. male, 18 years old must, by law, register for the draft. Beyond this governmental discrimination against men, the entire concept of military conscription is improper. If taxpayers had to pay the free-market price to hire soldiers in wartime, they would simply refuse to do so. The AEP would immediately end the possibility of military conscription.

[Hobbes' Choice]

The abolition of the draft in the US led to one of the great unintended consequences I've seen. Namely, that the American public pays little or no attention to all the covert and semi-covert wars the government is involved in. When it was Middle America's kids getting drafted and sent off to die in Vietnam, the public (eventually) stopped the war. With the volunteer army, there is nobody to stop the wars. That's why we've been in Afghanistan for 14 years, Iraq for 13, and we're starting new wars all the time.

A little bit naive.
The Vietnam war mobilised up to half a million Americans, and caused the death of around 60,000 US service personnel, with at least twice that number seriously wounded, in just nine years.
There was protest along the way, true, but that was only part of the reason for the US ending the war. The real reason is that the US were incapable of winning that war.

The same problem exists for Iraq and Afghanistan. The US cannot being itself to do what is necessary to win in either of those theatres, and have made enemies that are more determined, resourceful and have greater self belief.

[bobevenson]

Under the AEP, the U.S. would only be involved in the defense of our country and threats to our direct national interests. We would not spend a single dollar to support any other country's war efforts, we would eliminate 100% of foreign aid expenditures, bring all of our personnel and equipment back home, and let the rest of the world annihilate each other.

[Arising_uk]

There is no 'we' nor any 'AEP' bobby. But let's say there is, all you are proposing is the hiring of a mercenary army but if you are only going to use it for direct threats then I think you will find what others who have done this down through history found and that is they won't fight hard enough if it starts going against them.

[bobevenson]

All you are proposing is the hiring of a mercenary army but if you are only going to use it for direct threats then I think you will find what others who have done this down through history found and that is they won't fight hard enough if it starts going against them.

Unfortunately, you miss the entire point. You don't talk about mercenary roadbuilders or mail carriers. Just like those two occupations, you pay whatever the going rate is to accomplish your occupational objectives.

[Arising_uk]

Well over here both of those tasks were historically carried out by public servants and subsequently they've been privatised with a noticeable degradation in service. But tell me bobby, how much do you think you will have to pay mercenaries to fight to the death when they think it's going against them? As historically it's never been enough.

[bobevenson]

Well over here both of those tasks were historically carried out by public servants and subsequently they've been privatised with a noticeable degradation in service. But tell me bobby, how much do you think you will have to pay mercenaries to fight to the death when they think it's going against them? As historically it's never been enough.

I guess there wouldn't be too many fucking wars then.

[Arising_uk]

You guess wrong, there'd be a lot of easy wins.

[bobevenson]

You guess wrong, there'd be a lot of easy wins.

Speaking from the AEP position, not a single drop of blood from conscripted slaves would ever be shed in battle.

[Arising_uk]

And a fine position it is bob. You'd just better hope that you have enough citizens willing to die for the system then.

Do you think you shouting at them will help?

[bobevenson]

And a fine position it is bob. You'd just better hope that you have enough citizens willing to die for the system then. Do you think you shouting at them will help?

a) First of all, why is it that when you have a weak point, you complain about my font size, which, of course, is larger than your dick, and b) I stated the theoretical position of the AEP, of which there is no way that course of action is subject to change.

[Arising_uk]

Wouldn't you complain about someone always shouting all the time?

Like I said, an admirable position bob but given that you said you'd only act in direct defense and such a situation would be where the enemy thinks they can win and have the manpower and weapons to waste all I said was that you'd better hope that enough of your citizens will fight to the death when it looks like it might be touch and go as historically pay has not been enough to ensure such a thing. No idea why you have problems discussing the ramifications of your ideas? Oh! No! Wait!! I do, you're a godbothering internut.

[bobevenson]

Like I said, an admirable position bob but given that you said you'd only act in direct defense and such a situation would be where the enemy thinks they can win and have the manpower and weapons to waste all I said was that you'd better hope that enough of your citizens will fight to the death when it looks like it might be touch and go as historically pay has not been enough to ensure such a thing. No idea why you have problems discussing the ramifications of your ideas? Oh! No! Wait!! I do, you're a godbothering internut.

Under the AEP, there won't be any necessity for ground troops. Military action will be swift and complete. Of course, we won't be defending England, which can fall to the bottom of the fucking ocean, rest in peace.