~ The Meaning of Life ~

So what's really going on?

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Obvious Leo
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Re: ~ The Meaning of Life ~

Post by Obvious Leo »

Hobbes' Choice wrote: I did not say global warming was a hoax. You are the idiot that thinks the climate ought to be in equilibrium.
I didn't say that and I don't like having my words misrepresented. Climatic processes are states of disequilibrium by definition and I was specifically referring to the biosphere, changes in which the atmosphere is by far the most significant causal agent. The biosphere is self-creating and the way this is understood in biology is in terms of homeostasis. In layman's terms self-creating systems are those which "seek" equilibrium states without ever actually achieving them but in such systems effects are routinely raised to a power of their causes, a phenomenon commonly known as the butterfly effect which we have discussed elsewhere. The consensus is that if average global temperatures increase by more than 2 degrees C within the next fifty years then such a tipping point would be reached and that this would initiate a cascade of biological consequences whose effects are literally unknowable. This has occurred many times previously, for a number of different reasons, in the history of life on earth and on each occasion it brought about a mass extinction of greater or lesser severity. I'm not for a moment suggesting that our planet is in any peril because that's exactly the way evolution works. Such mass extinctions have ALWAYS brought about greater biological diversity on the planet and the next one will be no different. I'm only suggesting that for homo sapiens to be the main cause of such an extinction is rather ironic since he's likely to be the most significant casualty of it.

By the way I didn't accuse you of suggesting that global warming was a hoax. I know that many people are claiming this but I understand that your scepticism is of the science itself and that you are not supposing a dastardly plot on the part of those conducting this science. Scepticism of any scientific claim is always justifiable but the true sceptic must always stand willing to change his stance as the evidence mounts against him. No alternative explanation for the current global warming has stood firm against even the most cursory scientific scrutiny and many of the most distinguished sceptics of the past few decades have now hoisted the white flag of defeat. This is a very real problem which demands urgent measures and I am gratified that this has finally been acknowledged by the movers and shakers in this world.
Hobbes' Choice wrote: I don't see your hysteria as any more convincing than anyone else's.
I'm not being hysterical at all. I'm being a realist. There are many highly distinguished biologists who feel that the long-term effects of global warming are being vastly underestimated rather than exagerrated. I'm content to sit on the fence with respect to the possible consequences but only an idiot could simply pretend that it isn't happening. As a last point. There are a host of other valid environmental, public health, and economic reasons for eliminating the use of fossil fuels so even if the entire thing turns out to be a storm in a teacup we should be doing it anyway.
Dubious
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Re: ~ The Meaning of Life ~

Post by Dubious »

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
So tell me what concentration of CO2 is capable of contributing 1 degree of celsius to the global temperature?
Did I fucking address you? To repeat - what you made obvious so many times - anyone who disagrees with you on any point is either a moron, retard, idiot or worse. Debate with you is not possible UNLESS they throw themselves at your feet and there's enough idiots here who have done precisely that. Every thought or idea which doesn't conform to yours is treated as a personal insult to which you reply with insults which makes you one of the three trolls on the site.

Since you so obviously already know the answer to your question why ask and if it refutes everything I wrote why not simply present it and show everyone what an idiot, retard, moron I really am? That would suffice to give you a lot of pleasure!

Once and for all FUCK OFF
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ The Meaning of Life ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

.



I don’t give a **** if we agree about climate change.




ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER·MONDAY, DECEMBER 7, 2015...from his twitter post -


I see your questions.


Each and every time I post on my Facebook page or tweet about my crusade for a clean energy future, I see them.


There are always a few of you, asking why we should care about the temperature rising, or questioning the science of climate change.


I want you to know that I hear you. Even those of you who say renewable energy is a conspiracy. Even those who say climate change is a hoax. Even those of you who use four letter words.


I've heard all of your questions, and now I have three questions for you.

Let's put climate change aside for a minute. In fact, let's assume you're right.

First - do you believe it is acceptable that 7 million people die every year from pollution? That's more than murders, suicides, and car accidents - combined.

Every day, 19,000 people die from pollution from fossil fuels. Do you accept those deaths? Do you accept that children all over the world have to grow up breathing with inhalers?


Now, my second question: do you believe coal and oil will be the fuels of the future?


Besides the fact that fossil fuels destroy our lungs, everyone agrees that eventually they will run out. What's your plan then?

I, personally, want a plan. I don't want to be like the last horse and buggy salesman who was holding out as cars took over the roads. I don't want to be the last investor in Blockbuster as Netflix emerged. That's exactly what is going to happen to fossil fuels.


A clean energy future is a wise investment, and anyone who tells you otherwise is either wrong, or lying.
Either way, I wouldn't take their investment advice.

Renewable energy is great for the economy, and you don't have to take my word for it. California has some of the most revolutionary environmental laws in the United States, we get 40% of our power from renewables, and we are 40% more energy efficient than the rest of the country. We were an early-adopter of a clean energy future.

Our economy has not suffered. In fact, our economy in California is growing faster than the U.S. economy. We lead the nation in manufacturing, agriculture, tourism, entertainment, high tech, biotech, and, of course, green tech.


I have a final question, and it will take some imagination.

There are two doors. Behind Door Number One is a completely sealed room, with a regular, gasoline-fueled car. Behind Door Number Two is an identical, completely sealed room, with an electric car. Both engines are running full blast.

I want you to pick a door to open, and enter the room and shut the door behind you. You have to stay in the room you choose for one hour. You cannot turn off the engine. You do not get a gas mask.


I'm guessing you chose the Door Number Two, with the electric car, right? Door number one is a fatal choice - who would ever want to breathe those fumes?


This is the choice the world is making right now.


To use one of the four-letter words all of you commenters love, I don't give a damn if you believe in climate change. I couldn’t care less if you're concerned about temperatures rising or melting glaciers. It doesn't matter to me which of us is right about the science.

I just hope that you'll join me in opening Door Number Two, to a smarter, cleaner, healthier, more profitable energy future.





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Dubious
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Re: ~ The Meaning of Life ~

Post by Dubious »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.

I have a final question, and it will take some imagination.

There are two doors. Behind Door Number One is a completely sealed room, with a regular, gasoline-fueled car. Behind Door Number Two is an identical, completely sealed room, with an electric car. Both engines are running full blast.

I want you to pick a door to open, and enter the room and shut the door behind you. You have to stay in the room you choose for one hour. You cannot turn off the engine. You do not get a gas mask.

I'm guessing you chose the Door Number Two, with the electric car, right? Door number one is a fatal choice - who would ever want to breathe those fumes?

This is the choice the world is making right now.
...great analogy!

Mine was much more mundane question. If we continue doing bad things - which we know are bad - either to ourselves or globally aren't we fated to suffer the consequences...and why is this perennially proven sequence of events so hard to understand!

Clearly there is no use in asking. I couldn't care less if humans get roasted. If they caused it they deserve it. I just feel sorry for all the animals - meaning those we haven't exterminated - who had and still have a miserable time ever since we intelligent life forms become masters of the planet. No matter where you look, the human is a true bona fide fuck up. If we're looking for intelligent life abroad then other intelligence's are likely looking for the same and may explain why no one is calling back.

There now seems to be a contest between how fast a minuscule portion of us can get off the planet before Nature preempts the first attempt. Or perhaps we will have the means to re-geneticise ourselves to require far less food and water. It may also be that 'knowing ourselves' implies using our 'artificial" intelligence to grow the real one...this being the least likely.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: ~ The Meaning of Life ~

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

marjoram_blues wrote:
Happy Holidays MB! It's not you that I've rebutted, rather your ill informed argument, as surely my research tells me such. PEACE, my dear!

--May no ones ignorance or fear be their downfall!--
Spheres, I think I may have answered some of your questions in my post to HC. I know that you only try to help others and appreciate that, as always. We agree on the need to research; I only produced one link as a starter for those who haven't invested as much time and effort as you have.
This is a subject which needs separate attention...

Peace and love to you and everyone at this crazy time of year. Have a good time and treasure the memories. :)
If you're not afraid of PDF's because you keep your reader updated, and/or have a good anti-virus program running, not that this resource should be problematic, read this actual whitepaper, (NOT A MAGAZINE ARTICLE), which specifically address HC's type cancer, or not, your choice! Note the credentials! From the US, sure, the home of arguably the top University in the world, Harvard, which houses Johns-Hopkins, arguably the top medical authority. (No it's not a Johns-Hopkins whitepaper) You see those nasty rich capitalists responsible for the US's bad name, and wars globally, fear their death like every one else! Maybe more so as evidenced by the paranoid shit they cause. ;)

NOTE: While many of the whitepapers state that the authors insist there was no conflict of interest involved, (a 'very' important point), the site that supplies them of course does, as they sell CBD products and are in fact located in Europe, the Netherlands to be precise. I believe every whitepaper is copyrighted as well, so originals could be used as verification that the data wasn't somehow altered. Some of the whitepapers are from the British Journal of Pharmacology. That should keep you UK lovers happy! ;)
Walker
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Re: ~ The Meaning of Life ~

Post by Walker »

Dubious wrote:
Bill Wiltrack wrote:.

I have a final question, and it will take some imagination.

There are two doors. Behind Door Number One is a completely sealed room, with a regular, gasoline-fueled car. Behind Door Number Two is an identical, completely sealed room, with an electric car. Both engines are running full blast.

I want you to pick a door to open, and enter the room and shut the door behind you. You have to stay in the room you choose for one hour. You cannot turn off the engine. You do not get a gas mask.

I'm guessing you chose the Door Number Two, with the electric car, right? Door number one is a fatal choice - who would ever want to breathe those fumes?

This is the choice the world is making right now.
...great analogy!

Mine was much more mundane question. If we continue doing bad things - which we know are bad - either to ourselves or globally aren't we fated to suffer the consequences...and why is this perennially proven sequence of events so hard to understand!

Clearly there is no use in asking. I couldn't care less if humans get roasted. If they caused it they deserve it. I just feel sorry for all the animals - meaning those we haven't exterminated - who had and still have a miserable time ever since we intelligent life forms become masters of the planet. No matter where you look, the human is a true bona fide fuck up. If we're looking for intelligent life abroad then other intelligence's are likely looking for the same and may explain why no one is calling back.

There now seems to be a contest between how fast a minuscule portion of us can get off the planet before Nature preempts the first attempt. Or perhaps we will have the means to re-geneticise ourselves to require far less food and water. It may also be that 'knowing ourselves' implies using our 'artificial" intelligence to grow the real one...this being the least likely.
Isn’t cause the real issue of climate change.

One side says mans’ activities cause the climate change.

The other side says mans’ activities are a tempest in a teacup when it comes to affecting the climate.

If the second view is correct, then nothing man can do will change the climate. Heavy taxation won’t fix it.

Whether or not it’s correct should be easy enough to compute based on the known volumes of natural and man-made contributions to the atmosphere.

Many women in the world cook over open fire and breathe the smoke. Often the fuel is dried manure. This is a big cause of worldwide lung damage from breathing pollution. They stand right over the fire, up close, sometimes in a room. Very polluted. Any taxation should be used to buy vented stoves for people who use open fires indoors. This concept would work even in poor villages. Taxing the polluters could provide a detached and vented cooking structure. Safer, too.

I think there was even a design award up for grabs for a simple vented stove that could consistently work.

If the second view is correct, and man is overestimating his capacity to affect natural events on a global scale, then call this green movement what it is, and set up mechanisms to alleviate the actual human damage.

Skip the power-trip of taxation and control of daily human activities.

As far as what China is doing to its people with pollution, in this day and age, is just barbaric. People I know who have visited there say the air is terrible and even their short term exposure caused some problems. And the food is bad, too.
Obvious Leo
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Re: ~ The Meaning of Life ~

Post by Obvious Leo »

An interesting piece of trivia I just heard on the radio today. The US uses more electricity just to power up its Xmas lighting than the entire nation of Ethiopia uses in a full year.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: ~ The Meaning of Life ~

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Hobbes' Choice wrote:Anyone who responds to cancer with anger is a person that has no idea what life is.
Anger at who?
Anger at what?
Showing your ignorance again, it's the second stage of the Kübler-Ross model. While challenged, as not always applying, you surely seem to fit the model. ;)

No one gives you cancer, not even yourself.
But even if you have contributed to your illness with abuse, anger is still an empty meaningless reaction.
Regret nothing. You made the choices when you made them, and you cannot turn back the clock. Have the balls to accept your situation and act in your best interests. This is all you can do.
Anger if for fools who thing they deserve better than they got. But there is and never was any cosmic justice so suck it up and don't be a pussy.

In rare cases their might be work related cancers. You might be angry if a person or institution has withheld information about so risk in the work place. But I cannot think of any justifiable reason to be angry. If you think your time is best spent trying to bring those to book then do so, but anger is only going to get in the way.

Suck up to your creator like a fawning sycophant and keep reminding him what a jolly clever clap he is for making himself such an excellent universe.
yeah and thank his for all the suffering I had..
Walker
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Re: ~ The Meaning of Life ~

Post by Walker »

Obvious Leo wrote:An interesting piece of trivia I just heard on the radio today. The US uses more electricity just to power up its Xmas lighting than the entire nation of Ethiopia uses in a full year.
Wow.

I've heard some wild stats on air conditioning use, too.

Our home predates aircon. It's designed to be cool in the summer, without aircon. I've meticulously preserved the original house over the many years, and the old sash windows circulate the air quite nicely. Ceiling fans help but the ceilings are high, so we don't often need them.

We do cook over open fire, indoors. Natural gas. Very clean.
Last edited by Walker on Thu Dec 24, 2015 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Obvious Leo
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Re: ~ The Meaning of Life ~

Post by Obvious Leo »

Walker wrote:Isn’t cause the real issue of climate change.
Indeed it is. There has always been a natural variation in CO2 levels in the atmosphere because of volcanic activity and forest fires etc. However prior to the industrial age this level was biologically self-regulating because most of the planet was covered with forests. As CO2 levels rise the respiration rate of photosynthesising plants increases and brings it back down again. This is the principle of biological homeostasis which I referred to earlier and it is this natural mechanism which human activity is disrupting. Not only are we pumping gigatonnes more of CO2 into the atmosphere but at the same time we've been chopping down the trees which nature evolved to soak up the excess.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: ~ The Meaning of Life ~

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Obvious Leo wrote:"Belief is the antithesis of knowledge"....Bertrand Russell.

Hobbes. You and I share a very similar world-view when it comes to questions of belief. The journey of the self through life is an evolutionary process, which means that at every stage of this journey we are simply a work in progress. The notion of a final answer to all our questions is the myth which Camus refers to as a capitulation to belief and philosophical suicide. When we choose to believe it means we've given up.
Excellent.

But that is why I remain skeptical about the claims of anthropogenic global warming.
It's a foolish thing indeed to ignore the facts, about the effects of our power generation means, as well as that of transportation. That it could also be attributed to cow farts, volcanic activity, and solar sun spots, is a foolish argument, as one has to indeed be a fool to throw gasoline on his next door neighbors house when it's on fire. And if my metaphor has flown above your intellect, it figures! ;)
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: ~ The Meaning of Life ~

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Obvious Leo wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote: But that is why I remain skeptical about the claims of anthropogenic global warming.
This is a point on which we'll have to agree to differ because I reckon this is an example which illustrates the point I'm making. It has become fashionable in many sectors of our society to regard scientific claims as those which we are free to believe or disbelieve in accordance with our own conceptual taste or in accordance with our own personal comprehension of the scientific issues under scrutiny. I've many times made the point myself that the scientific method is itself extremely vulnerable to confirmation bias and group-think but this doesn't mean we should be chucking out the baby with the bathwater. We can't discard a scientific theory until such time as we've devised a better one to replace it and that our planet is getting warmer is beyond dispute. Our decision-making processes still need to be informed on the basis of the best available evidence and the best available evidence suggests that this warming is due to a major disruption in the carbon balance which is occurring too rapidly for the biosphere to adjust to. There is no doubt that our fossil fuel emissions are largely responsible for this carbon imbalance and the global warming question thus needs to be addressed as a risk management exercise. Although it remains possible that the climate scientists are wrong it would be foolhardy to take no action on the grounds of this assumption. One journalistic wag, whose name I forget, put it rather nicely.

"What if global warming is a hoax and we're cleaning up the planet for nothing?"
And so I know you understand my metaphor! Men doing fucked up shit along side nature doing fucked up shit is additive, not nullifying. There, clarification for the laypeople; HC!
Walker
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Re: ~ The Meaning of Life ~

Post by Walker »

Obvious Leo wrote:
Walker wrote:Isn’t cause the real issue of climate change.
Indeed it is. There has always been a natural variation in CO2 levels in the atmosphere because of volcanic activity and forest fires etc. However prior to the industrial age this level was biologically self-regulating because most of the planet was covered with forests. As CO2 levels rise the respiration rate of photosynthesising plants increases and brings it back down again. This is the principle of biological homeostasis which I referred to earlier and it is this natural mechanism which human activity is disrupting. Not only are we pumping gigatonnes more of CO2 into the atmosphere but at the same time we've been chopping down the trees which nature evolved to soak up the excess.
I understand what you're saying here.

Two points.

1. Does the actual amount of human contributions to the atmosphere exceed natural contributions? I don't know.

2. Re: respiration of plants. Many areas of the planet are as forested as they ever were. Many areas. The gas exchanges affected by localized pockets of deforestation could well be absorbed into the huge atmosphere, could they not? Rationally it seems likely but again, I don't know the actual data. The ocean could be compared to the atmosphere, could it not? And man's oil spills have been easily absorbed, though of course there is tragic local damage due to accidents.

Speaking of radio blurbs, a few months ago I heard the tree population has been recalculated. 6 trillion trees. Much larger than previously thought.
Last edited by Walker on Thu Dec 24, 2015 6:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: ~ The Meaning of Life ~

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Dubious wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
So tell me what concentration of CO2 is capable of contributing 1 degree of celsius to the global temperature?
Did I fucking address you? To repeat - what you made obvious so many times - anyone who disagrees with you on any point is either a moron, retard, idiot or worse. Debate with you is not possible UNLESS they throw themselves at your feet and there's enough idiots here who have done precisely that. Every thought or idea which doesn't conform to yours is treated as a personal insult to which you reply with insults which makes you one of the three trolls on the site.

Since you so obviously already know the answer to your question why ask and if it refutes everything I wrote why not simply present it and show everyone what an idiot, retard, moron I really am? That would suffice to give you a lot of pleasure!

Once and for all FUCK OFF
Am I one of the three, please say no. Merry Christmas! ;) Though as to HC at least, we seem to belong in the same camp.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: ~ The Meaning of Life ~

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Obvious Leo wrote:
Walker wrote:Isn’t cause the real issue of climate change.
Indeed it is. There has always been a natural variation in CO2 levels in the atmosphere because of volcanic activity and forest fires etc. However prior to the industrial age this level was biologically self-regulating because most of the planet was covered with forests. As CO2 levels rise the respiration rate of photosynthesising plants increases and brings it back down again. This is the principle of biological homeostasis which I referred to earlier and it is this natural mechanism which human activity is disrupting. Not only are we pumping gigatonnes more of CO2 into the atmosphere but at the same time we've been chopping down the trees which nature evolved to soak up the excess.
Yeah, Leo! I'm glad we're in the same camp on this one. Uh Oh! Did I just tarnish your reputation? ;) :lol:
I need some additional medication, because my current giddiness is not quite enough. BRB, going to the fridge! ;)
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