France represents all of totalitarian Europe!

[bobevenson]

My feet are fine thanks, Bob, although my hips are fucked, but I can assure you that I'm perfectly self-reliant. I don't need a government to look after me but I'm acutely aware of the fact that this is more a question of good luck than good management. There are many people in my country far less fortunate than I am and since I live in a wealthy country I refuse to accept the proposition that these people should suffer unnecessary hardship solely as a consequence of an accident of birth. If that makes me a socialist then I'll wear the label with pride.

In his column today, economist Walter Williams said, "I personally believe in helping one's fellow man in need. Doing so by reaching into one's own pockets is laudable and praiseworthy. Doing so by reaching into another's pockets is evil and worthy of condemnation."

[Obvious Leo]

You're simply not addressing the point, Bob, and I'll remind you that it was you who raised the subject of totalitarianism. I'm talking about an inclusive democracy where the authority of the government is the gift of the citizens and the responsibility of the government is to act in accordance with the directives of these citizens. Why is it not totalitarianism if you deny the citizens the right to mutually safeguard the interests of their population in whichever way they democratically choose?

[Arising_uk]

Censorship of information is not a proper function of government.

And yet in this instance the French government is increasing information not censoring it?

[Gary Childress]

I'm sorry, but freedom does not come in different sizes.

I have no idea what “size” and “freedom” have to do with each other but I guess it makes a nice slogan for the mindless to rally to or something? Are you maybe implying that all freedoms are equally important? Assuming that's what you mean, let’s examine that assumption.

Are you free to murder someone whenever you want without risk of being arrested? No. Are you free to drive 50 mph over the speed limit without risk of being arrested? No. Are you free to choose what color tie to wear to Church on Sunday without risk of being arrest? Yes. Is it “totalitarian” to not be able to murder someone on whim? Are all those three freedoms equivalent that if you don't have all of them, then you are not "free" and live in a "totalitarian" society?

No one is perfectly, 100% free, Bob. We ALL have "freedom" within certain limitations. I don’t think any sane person would want a society where there is radical freedom to do anything and everything. Try stripping off all your clothes and run down main street where you live in broad daylight, Bob. See how free you are.

[Gary Childress]

Censorship of information is not a proper function of government.

And yet in this instance the French government is increasing information not censoring it?

Exactly! Well said Arising_UK! Bob doesn't seem to worry too much about contradicting himself, though. I'm thinking it's a waste of time debating anything with him.

[bobevenson]

You're simply not addressing the point, Bob, and I'll remind you that it was you who raised the subject of totalitarianism. I'm talking about an inclusive democracy where the authority of the government is the gift of the citizens and the responsibility of the government is to act in accordance with the directives of these citizens. Why is it not totalitarianism if you deny the citizens the right to mutually safeguard the interests of their population in whichever way they democratically choose?

Walter Williams directly addresses the point, my friend. Again, the proper function of government is social integration, not using the ultimate power of government to abolish the God-given right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, which is not subject to a democratic vote. "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" is a well-known phrase in the United States Declaration of Independence. The phrase gives three examples of the "unalienable rights" which the Declaration says has been given to all human beings by their Creator, and for which governments are created to protect." --Wikipedia

[Obvious Leo]

What about the poor buggers like me who reckon that the creator hypothesis is a crock of shit and that the pursuit of one's personal happiness is a mindlessly trivial life goal?

[bobevenson]

What about the poor buggers like me who reckon that the creator hypothesis is a crock of shit and that the pursuit of one's personal happiness is a mindlessly trivial life goal?

Well, you're just fucked up, that's all!

[Obvious Leo]

Since this opinion is coming from you, Bob, I can remain confident that I'm on the right track.

[bobevenson]

Since this opinion is coming from you, Bob, I can remain confident that I'm on the right track.

Let me know who else agrees with you, Oblivious, so I can tell him the same fucking thing!

[Obvious Leo]

I'm sure they'll be as pleased to hear it as I am, Bob. I doubt that there are too many people around who would confess to thinking just like you do.

[Ansiktsburk]

My feet are fine thanks, Bob, although my hips are fucked, but I can assure you that I'm perfectly self-reliant. I don't need a government to look after me but I'm acutely aware of the fact that this is more a question of good luck than good management. There are many people in my country far less fortunate than I am and since I live in a wealthy country I refuse to accept the proposition that these people should suffer unnecessary hardship solely as a consequence of an accident of birth. If that makes me a socialist then I'll wear the label with pride.

In his column today, economist Walter Williams said, "I personally believe in helping one's fellow man in need. Doing so by reaching into one's own pockets is laudable and praiseworthy. Doing so by reaching into another's pockets is evil and worthy of condemnation."

I'm NOT a Libertarean and my first instinct was to wrinkle my nose at the last. But even for a Social Liberal/Revisionist something like me this last sentences holds a lot of truth where I come from. And it's NOT the poor stealing from the rich. It's the upper class lefties, children of the "red wine socialists" from -68 who love to be nice little Samarites to whatever cause they can come up with, an love to make the lower middle class pay. And they have gone bananas the last years. Maybe it's similar elsewhere but I bet it's worst up where I come from. The worst thing - they say that "we" have to do this and that.

[bobevenson]

I doubt that there are too many people around who would confess to thinking just like you do.

Let me correct that statement, there is nobody around who thinks just like I do because I'm a divinely inspired prophet of all things spiritual, political and economic!

[Arising_uk]

Don't forget agnostic or absolute fool. Which one were you again bob?

[Arising_uk]

Maybe it's similar elsewhere but I bet it's worst up where I come from. The worst thing - they say that "we" have to do this and that.

Not sure where you're from but try it over here in the UK where the right-wing upper - class capitalists are truly back in charge and you might change your mind.