~ The Meaning of Life ~

[marjoram_blues]

Off topic. Sorry Bill, I'll keep this short. Thanks for starting this thread; it's a great one

There needs to be a word of caution inserted here re Cancer and its treatment.

First off, most people would love an easy cure for cancer; prevention would be nice.
Second. cannabis and natural remedies spark huge debates and passion.
Third, research is an on-going process; claims and counterclaims abound.
4. Most savvy people - in addition to listening to consultants - try to find out as much as possible about their own type of disease and often turn to on-line support groups.
5. The issue of 'anger' re diagnosis, and all the rest of the shit, is dealt with - sometimes by talking it over; sometimes by using ones own philosophy of life; other times by kicking the sofa. This type of 'anger' is not necessarily the source of the expression of 'anger' or frustration on this forum. People can be cranky bastards for all kinds of reasons...usually not for long, especially when intelligence and reason is brought to bear. God knows, it can be a relief to just let it rip...at those deemed deserving.
6. Arguing the toss about different treatments is interesting - it highlights individual beliefs about their lives and best way to survive. I think it important that it is not used in a score-pointing kind of way. 'My way is the right and only way' is not appropriate.
7. Given my interest in the subject, I had a quick look re further information. I trust Cancer Research UK. Here is the link:
http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org ... ce-so-far/
8...I've got to go and eat breakfast.

[SpheresOfBalance]

Off topic. Sorry Bill, I'll keep this short. Thanks for starting this thread; it's a great one

There needs to be a word of caution inserted here re Cancer and its treatment.

First off, most people would love an easy cure for cancer; prevention would be nice.
There's been cures for various cancers, by various means, for many years now. At least here in the US.

Second. cannabis and natural remedies spark huge debates and passion.
Obviously, because it's a weed that grows easily and can be free, which topples Big Pharma. You know, economy. That selfish endeavor to ensure money and power where 'they' feel it belongs.

Third, research is an on-going process; claims and counterclaims abound.
What I speak of has in fact been proven, by many countries scientists!

4. Most savvy people - in addition to listening to consultants - try to find out as much as possible about their own type of disease and often turn to on-line support groups.
Savvy? If only in their own minds, pride the often evil virtue!

5. The issue of 'anger' re diagnosis, and all the rest of the shit, is dealt with - sometimes by talking it over; sometimes by using ones own philosophy of life; other times by kicking the sofa. This type of 'anger' is not necessarily the source of the expression of 'anger' or frustration on this forum. People can be cranky bastards for all kinds of reasons...usually not for long, especially when intelligence and reason is brought to be bear. God knows, it can be a relief to just let it rip...at those deemed deserving.
It's called the benefit of doubt. A very charitable venture, though I can understand that many here would be oblivious. I mean his cancer could have tamed him, WOW!!!!! He once had students,

6. Arguing the toss about different treatments is interesting - it highlights individual beliefs about their lives and best way to survive.
Cool, that you understand that your take on another's solution, speaks both of your and their knowledge.

I think it important that it is not used in a score-pointing kind of way.
No scoring here, I only ever provide an FYI. Mine was to help, his obviously his usual ignorance fueled demeanor? Cancer? My giving him the benefit of doubt! Really???

'My way is the right and only way' is not appropriate.
Yet you have not framed the "way" in such a way so as to quantify it's aim. CBD is in fact the most low impact method to employ. The 'way' framed as such, creates a more 'right' way.

7. Given my interest in the subject, I had a quick look re further information. I trust Cancer Research UK.
One can and many do trust their God and Satan, their governments even, yet trust in and of itself does not a truth value make.

Here is the link:
http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org ... ce-so-far/
I know all that this article has to offer, where they are knowledgeable and where they are not, and so much more. Do you work MB?

I don't and I haven't since 2005. Then I only worked for about six months, prior to that I worked last in 1992.

So what do I do all day? Sometimes for 24 hours at a time. RESEARCH, RESEARCH, RESEARCH, especially that pertaining to Health. Because we're getting older, my wife and I, cancer being the biggest thing we fear, because we're entering those years.

We are empty nester's and my wife is gone all day, she got back here from DC the first of September of 2012, after 3 years of being there, I've had WAY TOO MUCH TIME ON MY HANDS for far too long, so I have extreme advantage over all you workers here at the PNF. The people such as me are a totally different matter. I have developed a pain in my Coccyx because I sit for hours upon hours in front of a computer screen, doing research. I am quite the authority on this matter, where one single article can't hold a candle to me as I've read hundreds. So my words to the wise! Prove me wrong, not by quoting a single article, potentially catering to a one sided agenda, rather someone that has actually tried the CBD approach, once you do it over and over again, like I have, you'll be convinced.

Don't underestimate the capitalist agenda, it's ingrained in all of your psyche's much more than you'll ever know. Remember my work history, such that I understand that very well as well! Not being a part of it allows one to see it oh so clearly, it's that pesky 3rd person point of view, of indifference to either side, until one becomes clearer than the other on their own merits!

8...I've got to go and eat breakfast.

Now you can either believe me or not, your choice, no skin off my ass. But it would behoove you to investigate it further, and at least try it before you let the Dr. Frankensteins of Allopathy carve you a new one! As no one in the history of it being used has 'ever' died as a result of using it, unlike alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, industrial/household chemicals and some food additives, to name a few of the legal substances that kill. A lot of your, (meaning the majorities), so called knowledge is slanted towards money making opportunities whether you care to admit it to yourself, for fear, or not! It's not an opinion, it's a fact!

Happy Holidays MB! It's not you that I've rebutted, rather your ill informed argument, as surely my research tells me such. PEACE, my dear!

--May no ones ignorance or fear be their downfall!--

[marjoram_blues]

HC - I've printed out your post, all the better for me to read. I really think that it is so special that it is a shame for it to be hidden away in a thread of this length. Any full response of mine would probably take this way off topic...so, I'll try a bullet point reply:

1. I too am lucky to have received a second-life chance via the NHS; not as severe as cancer but still have 3 monthly check-ups. I'm theirs for life, apparently. Reassuring in some ways...but, like you, I won't medicalise my life. Prescriptions here are free, for the time being. Another hot political potato...about priorities and values.
2. I think that most people, receiving a drastic and life-changing diagnosis, have to deal directly with the real threat of impending death. There is a realisation that there is nothing safe, secure or certain in this life. It can change the meaning they give to life...
3. As in your case, there are usually other factors entering the equation of life balance. Family. Sorry to hear of the death of your Mum. Re your siblings - although it is hard to deal with such troubles, it is not always a negative, is it? From my own experience, the meaning of our lives can start right there. I would not be the person I am without my sister. It made me realise, very early on, that there but for the grace of god, go I. Love and empathy; useful basics.
4. Love the fact that you decided to spend some cash on buying stuff that gave you pleasure. My pleasure came in the form of more energy to read, language study and travel. I eventually realised my dream of independent travel to Rome, meeting an epal there and being totally Wowed, as compared to a former organised and horrendous trip there...
Having a dream and hope - gives meaning to life.
5. The liberation and joy of getting back to near normal. The gratitude towards a dead donor and family. Always there. Like you, I am in a fortunate position whereby I retired early but have enough for comfort levels. No more work stress. Yes. There is more to life.
6. Camus - I'd like to hear more about how useful he was to you. When undergoing the actual treatment, did you zone out and think of 'heaven'...
7. Listening to podcasts would be helpful to support your views and give some comfort. I have to say that - as someone brought up in a Christian family and who now thinks that there is absolutely zero after death - I still have tugs, looking skywards and sending out some kind of a 'prayer'.
Family and minister prayed for me, and I received the gift. They are happy and I am happy but for different reasons.
8. We all find meaning where we can...if we want to live.

[marjoram_blues]

Happy Holidays MB! It's not you that I've rebutted, rather your ill informed argument, as surely my research tells me such. PEACE, my dear!

--May no ones ignorance or fear be their downfall!--

Spheres, I think I may have answered some of your questions in my post to HC. I know that you only try to help others and appreciate that, as always. We agree on the need to research; I only produced one link as a starter for those who haven't invested as much time and effort as you have.
This is a subject which needs separate attention...

Peace and love to you and everyone at this crazy time of year. Have a good time and treasure the memories.

[Hobbes' Choice]

When you think you are going to die, it is a comfort to know that at least you won't be bored to death listening to choirs of angels singing fucking hymns for eternity, or being roasted over flames for that matter. Not sure which is worse.

I think I'd go for the flames because at least I'd be in the company of people more to my aesthetic taste than the self-righteous gits gazing adoringly at their invisible best friend until the end of time. However you raise an interesting point about the subject of immortality more generally. Who in their right mind would fucking want it?

I love to live longer with some health enhancements, but heaven? Who needs it? what would I do all day?

[Hobbes' Choice]

.



I'm trying to find data that would support the notion that WE ARE NOT IMMORTAL.




.

Here's something you might want to consider.



Failing that why not just ask your great-great Grandparents??

[Obvious Leo]

what would I do all day?

Suck up to your creator like a fawning sycophant and keep reminding him what a jolly clever clap he is for making himself such an excellent universe.

[Hobbes' Choice]

Anyone who responds to cancer with anger is a person that has no idea what life is.
Anger at who?
Anger at what?
No one gives you cancer, not even yourself.
But even if you have contributed to your illness with abuse, anger is still an empty meaningless reaction.
Regret nothing. You made the choices when you made them, and you cannot turn back the clock. Have the balls to accept your situation and act in your best interests. This is all you can do.
Anger if for fools who thing they deserve better than they got. But there is and never was any cosmic justice so suck it up and don't be a pussy.

In rare cases their might be work related cancers. You might be angry if a person or institution has withheld information about so risk in the work place. But I cannot think of any justifiable reason to be angry. If you think your time is best spent trying to bring those to book then do so, but anger is only going to get in the way.

Suck up to your creator like a fawning sycophant and keep reminding him what a jolly clever clap he is for making himself such an excellent universe.

yeah and thank his for all the suffering I had..

[Hobbes' Choice]

HC - I've printed out your post, all the better for me to read. I really think that it is so special that it is a shame for it to be hidden away in a thread of this length. Any full response of mine would probably take this way off topic...so, I'll try a bullet point reply:

1. I too am lucky to have received a second-life chance via the NHS; not as severe as cancer but still have 3 monthly check-ups. I'm theirs for life, apparently. Reassuring in some ways...but, like you, I won't medicalise my life. Prescriptions here are free, for the time being. Another hot political potato...about priorities and values.

Tell me more. What was your diagnosis?

2. I think that most people, receiving a drastic and life-changing diagnosis, have to deal directly with the real threat of impending death. There is a realisation that there is nothing safe, secure or certain in this life. It can change the meaning they give to life...

The sooner you realise that the better. We all know it intellectually, but a slap in the face is always more poignant that the threat of one.

3. As in your case, there are usually other factors entering the equation of life balance. Family. Sorry to hear of the death of your Mum. Re your siblings - although it is hard to deal with such troubles, it is not always a negative, is it? From my own experience, the meaning of our lives can start right there. I would not be the person I am without my sister. It made me realise, very early on, that there but for the grace of god, go I. Love and empathy; useful basics.

MY Mum was ready, no need to be sorry for the inevitable. My brother's drug regime keeps him stable if uninterested in life, he's not suffering in anguist as he has in the past. My sister has her own life and we don't see her. No problem there either. I'm sure when she needs something, I'll be hearing from her.


4. Love the fact that you decided to spend some cash on buying stuff that gave you pleasure. My pleasure came in the form of more energy to read, language study and travel. I eventually realised my dream of independent travel to Rome, meeting an epal there and being totally Wowed, as compared to a former organised and horrendous trip there...
Having a dream and hope - gives meaning to life.

I did read and study too, afteral you have to have somewhere to ride the Harley to. I did my MA in Intellectual History at Sussex, and have completed several courses in sculpture. I sold the Harley, still have the BMW. I love Rome. My partner and I have been all over the place, before and after cancer. Two years ago we got a dog, so the travel has pretty much stopped, but we love the dog loads.

5. The liberation and joy of getting back to near normal. The gratitude towards a dead donor and family. Always there. Like you, I am in a fortunate position whereby I retired early but have enough for comfort levels. No more work stress. Yes. There is more to life.

If I was religious I'd probably say Amen.

6. Camus - I'd like to hear more about how useful he was to you. When undergoing the actual treatment, did you zone out and think of 'heaven'...

No I accepted my fate, and the absurdity of life. Knowing you are going to die and be forgotten is empowering. Run into the street and make a fool of yourself. Ultimately no one cares and no one will remember.

7. Listening to podcasts would be helpful to support your views and give some comfort. I have to say that - as someone brought up in a Christian family and who now thinks that there is absolutely zero after death - I still have tugs, looking skywards and sending out some kind of a 'prayer'.
Family and minister prayed for me, and I received the gift. They are happy and I am happy but for different reasons.


Anyone who hinted that they might pray for me - I forbade them. If you think about it, it's more than just a completely empty gesture. All it can do is re-inforce a type of delusion. I'd never want to encourage that. If there is a god, then he must know what is going to happen next, and is too powerful to have his mind changed. Prayer is the bleat of the lamb, empty shameful.


8. We all find meaning where we can...if we want to live.

Not necessarily. You can never truly live your life if you search for the meaning of life. Meaning is a thing you make up as you go along, day to day, even minute to minute. Art is liberating in that respect.

[marjoram_blues]

HC - a quick reply.
Thanks for your interest. However, if I had wanted to provide a detailed diagnosis, I would have. There is enough info in my post for the purposes of this thread.

Some people never get the wake-up call and take their life for granted. Fortunately for me, I already appreciated the fact that death can happen anytime, anywhere. So I did travel, mentally and physically, until I was constrained by my chronic disease and a cleaning machine. And that is a story I won't dwell on.

Congrats on your success at Uni and elsewhere. You were a bit short on Camus - I was hoping for some direction...perhaps a particularly meaningful mmoment in a book?

You can forbid people to pray in your house but that won't stop those who care about you from doing their thing. It helps them, more than you. I never did understand why people prayed for a change in circumstances, if they believed in God and His Plan. But I don't think it is empty or shameful.

The search for meaning...is what keeps some people going. I agree that life passes by if too much time is spent searching for some Grand and elusive Meaning. I meant if people want to fully live their own lives, then they will find it where they can, and as they wish, as they travel the highways and byways.
OK, I think I'm done here. I will try to follow-up the issues you brought up re sorries, regrets and anger, some other time...

[Hobbes' Choice]

HC - a quick reply.
Thanks for your interest. However, if I had wanted to provide a detailed diagnosis, I would have. There is enough info in my post for the purposes of this thread.

Some people never get the wake-up call and take their life for granted. Fortunately for me, I already appreciated the fact that death can happen anytime, anywhere. So I did travel, mentally and physically, until I was constrained by my chronic disease and a cleaning machine. And that is a story I won't dwell on.

Congrats on your success at Uni and elsewhere. You were a bit short on Camus - I was hoping for some direction...perhaps a particularly meaningful mmoment in a book?

You can forbid people to pray in your house but that won't stop those who care about you from doing their thing. It helps them, more than you. I never did understand why people prayed for a change in circumstances, if they believed in God and His Plan. But I don't think it is empty or shameful.

The search for meaning...is what keeps some people going. I agree that life passes by if too much time is spent searching for some Grand and elusive Meaning. I meant if people want to fully live their own lives, then they will find it where they can, and as they wish, as they travel the highways and byways.
OK, I think I'm done here. I will try to follow-up the issues you brought up re sorries, regrets and anger, some other time...

I think there is a really good reason for the "Grand" meaning being ellusive. The fact that so many people think they have found it and are willing to kill other people, who disagree with their version, who think they have found it, is evidence enough that we have no good reason to think that anyone has found it.
I cannot think of any sound basis to think that there is a Grand meaning, and all the evidence seems to point to the fact that there is not grand meaning.
When you figure this out you are truly liberated. Just accept it.

[marjoram_blues]

I cannot think of any sound basis to think that there is a Grand meaning, and all the evidence seems to point to the fact that there is not grand meaning.
When you figure this out you are truly liberated. Just accept it.

I really hope that after all I have written, here and elsewhere, that this is directed to a you plural; a generalised 'one'.
Otherwise, I have wasted my time here. That wouldn't surprise me...

[Bill Wiltrack]

.




There is no doubt in my mind, in life...all life, there is a beginning a middle and an end.

Everyone reading this will die.



I contend, we will never experience death.


Consciousness is different, than our bodies, our minds, and our emotions.



We can never experience death. Our lives repeat over & over again, more or less in the same weary path.


Someone evoked Einstein within this thread. Einstein stated, not in so few words, that time is like a landscape. All time exists at the same time.



And this makes sense. There is a youtube video of a TED talk that involves our developing ability to take snapshots of traveling electrons.



The video, and Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity, artistically explain, in a way that I can't, that time, all time, exists simultaneously.

We experience slivers of time, as if we had blinders on that only allow us to see only what is exactly in front of us but if we could see further - beyond ourselves, we could better understand this fourth dimension.





.

[Hobbes' Choice]

I cannot think of any sound basis to think that there is a Grand meaning, and all the evidence seems to point to the fact that there is no grand meaning.
When you figure this out you are truly liberated. Just accept it.

I really hope that after all I have written, here and elsewhere, that this is directed to a you plural; a generalised 'one'.
Otherwise, I have wasted my time here. That wouldn't surprise me...

Yes indeed. One is free, when one accepts the impossibility of finding a Grand Meaning.

I think this is true even if there is one (which I doubt). Suffice it to say that no one has any warrant to think they truly have the answer.
Finding the answer is what Camus called philosophical suicide: accepting a set answer such as religion or even science, when it gives you a series of easy answers to answer your anxiety about the lack of cosmic justice for example.

[Hobbes' Choice]

Bill said : Our lives repeat over & over again,[/b] more or less in the same weary path.
.

Here is where your sense departs your reason.