Serenity is the feeling that nothing is a waste of time

[SpheresOfBalance]

i'm really having a hard time understanding what the hell you're saying, spheres.

Do you seriously believe that meaning is universal, that it's not just a man made concept?

i'm saying that it should be something (one thing, not many different things) that satisfies everyone.
Why should it, because you say so. It would seem that your expectations fall short of the reality of the universe. So what do you think that says about your expectations?

for "life" to have literally billions of "meanings" is absurd.
Again, who are you to dictate to anyone. The universe doesn't dictate life's meaning. That's left up to the life in question. Do you hear voices in your head? Yeah me neither, I fear they wouldn't be god if you did! Schizoid, maybe, so it would be you talking to you, right?
BILLIONS???? Do you really think humans have that little in common. I don't believe it'd be anywhere near that many. I think as to life's meaning we'd have more in common than you currently believe. How many religions are there anyway? Including various types of Atheists. Which of course are closely tied to life's meaning, no?

Really?? If so, then many would say you believe in a god. Do you believe in a god?

i believe in an "unmoved mover" sort of thing.
I have absolutely no idea what that is supposed to be. But it sounds very 'moving.'

not necessarily a god.
I guess your 'unmoved mover' might be more like my four fundamental forces, i.e., gravitational, electromagnetic, strong nuclear, and weak nuclear. Though I believe that electromagnetic energy at actually at the heart of those four forces, that it is the prime mover. That which crosses human synapses, gets sucked into black holes, is responsible for particles sticking together and behaving as they do.

being a determinist, things like coincidence, randomness, chaos, etc., have no place in my vocabulary.
So you believe some kind of god somewhere, 13 billions years ago, called billiards ultimate bank shot that's responsible for the entirety of the universes celestial bodies? Countless super novas; quasars; galaxies; black holes, energy, and matter; gamma ray bursts; nebula; solar systems; time and space; etc; etc; etc; on such a grand scale that most humans are incapable of actually grasping it, huh? All preordained?
For me, no fucking way that could be true. Well I guess it could be, but it'd have to have had one hell of an eye for geometry that could only be accounted for, over 13 billion years of time. Quite the long shot, but then you don't believe in long shots do you?

Please take no offense, but I find your view quite absurd, but I guess that's to be expected of a theist. The closest I can tell I'm an agnostic. At least in as much as I believe that no human has or shall ever necessarily know whether there is or is not a creator. I'm one that refuses to buy swampland. You can't sell me an invisible flea circus. If on the other hand one of the two scenarios presents itself, beyond a shadow of doubt, where my witnesses are the whole of the earths population, well that might indeed be quite a different story, yes?

i believe in absolute order, which can only arise from strict causality. order, however, does not necessarily equate purpose.
So maybe that's telling you something? Huh? Maybe? I see that philosophy has a tendency to fog rather than clear ones lenses. My man did say, 'that he only knew that he knew nothing.' In so stating that, he is my hero.

It's atheists that believe there is no god that tend to believe life has no meaning. As everyone agrees that a god supplies/creates the meaning to life.

to be honest, i'm not claiming that it's absolutely impossible for life to have a worthwhile purpose. all i'm saying is that i have yet to find anything to support that it does.
I have the feeling you'll be looking for quite some time, and when you believe you've finally found it, it shall be purely because you want to find it, in the shade you've painted your lenses.

Here's is it's dictionary 'meaning:'
meaning [mee-ning]
noun
1. what is intended to be, or actually is, expressed or indicated; signification; import:
the three meanings of a word.

Intended suggests one that intends, one that causes something to come to pass. If an atheist you are, then isn't it up to you to supply the meaning of your life? If instead a theist you are, isn't it your god that supplies meaning?

i'm not an atheist. i'm also not a theist per se. i believe that "god" should supply meaning, but has he? doesn't look like it.
Yes, and the jury could still be out on that one, you never know, as Socrates might imagine. But I think it's more likely that you'll be waiting for a very, very long time. I'd say it's best, IMHO, to count on your meaning, of course your's can't possibly directly affect another's negatively, first and foremost, physically, as in so doing one forfeits their own freedom to pursue theirs, surely philosophically speaking of course!


i'm not dismissing the possibility of knowing the -alleged- purpose after we die.
Unfortunately, one has to die to find out, and if they're wrong, not only will they never know it, but all that time spent would have been in vain, though they'd surely never know it. It'd simply be lost time while alive that they'd have wasted, that they could have spent in ways not dedicated to that which was false. That's a petty huge gamble, but then you don't believe in gambling do you? Crap according to you, you can't actually decide anything in this matter, because it's not up to you. So what do you think the odds are that it's been preordained that you shall learn of the universal, absolute truth of the meaning of life.

I'm sorry that you feel like a puppet, that saddens me greatly because I believe that both determinism and free will in fact exist simultaneously, maybe not on the grandiose scale that some would have you believe, but then humans tend to over exaggerate a great many things, it helps them keep their minds off the inevitable.

[marjoram_blues]

I think we should have to start with a definition of meaning.

If you define meaning, then you'd find you would have to try to define the words you use to describe meaning - where would it end?

It would end in a dictionary, a more-precise-than-normal philosopher's dictionary.

It actually might be helpful to use the online oxford dictionary to gain an idea of the shades of meaning and the differences between each of the concepts you wish to consider:
For example:
Serenity - mass noun: a state of being clam, peaceful, untroubled.
Serene - clam, peaceful, untroubled, tranquil
Serene certainty - firm conviction that something is the case; quality of being reliably true; a fact that is definitely true. (HC, I'm beginning to see what you were talking about earlier with your 'serene truth')

Happiness - the state of being happy
Happy - feeling or showing pleasure or contentment - including obtaining success/enjoyment

Meaningful - having meaning; serious; important; worthwhile; having a recognizable function
Meaningless - to have no meaning, significance, purpose, reason.
Meaning - http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... sh/meaning

You can carry on with 'life' , the 'universe', 'time' and 'everything' - to your heart or mind's content...
Pick which definition you wish to use in your arguments or claims - and see if you can't talk past each other...

[marjoram_blues]

The Serenity Prayer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serenity_Prayer)

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

Can carry meaning even for those not calling on God this Sunday.

You have a lifetime to experience, if you wish. Accept this life , or not.
How you value and use your time spent on Earth or Mars is up to you. Time can be wasted/enjoyed in pondering the meaning of life, the universe and everything.
It may lead to periods of happiness, serenity or the opposite.

I disagree with the initial quote:
Boredom is the feeling that everything is a waste of time; serenity that nothing is.

Boredom is about a sense of weariness because you are not occupied - at a certain period of time. It is not a belief that 'everything is a waste of time'. ( again, HC - I'm beginning to see what you meant about conflation)
'Feeling': http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... sh/feeling
Serenity is a state of being calm; not a belief that 'Nothing is a waste of time'. This, in turn, does not necessarily entail that happiness is finding meaning in life. You can believe that life is meaningful and still have periods of unhappiness.

The serenity prayer offers a way of thinking about and getting on with your life, even if it sucks.

[marjoram_blues]

if i understand you correctly, you're saying that those who feel that life is meaningful, are in a state of serenity?

By this definition: I am not saying that all those who feel life is meaningful are serene, but all those who are serene feel life is meaningful.

Is it true that 'All those who are serene feel life is meaningful'?
I think that it is not true because:
I might be serene ( attain serenity) even 'feeling' ( as in having an opinion) that Life (as a whole) is meaningless, with no great purpose/significance or reason.

We need to be clear about what we each mean by a 'feeling' ( perhaps intuitive understanding; vague or irrational belief; capacity to experience the sense e.g. of worth' ) and 'belief'' ( acceptance that something is true, without proof; something one accepts as true or real, a firmly held opinion; a religious conviction ) http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... ish/belief

[alpha]

We need to be clear about what we each mean by a 'feeling' ( perhaps intuitive understanding; vague or irrational belief; capacity to experience the sense e.g. of worth' ) and 'belief'' ( acceptance that something is true, without proof; something one accepts as true or real, a firmly held opinion; a religious conviction ) http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... ish/belief

at this point, i don't have any "beliefs". i either "know" something is true (through proof, mainly logic and deductive reasoning), or i don't.

[alpha]

@ spheres;

"unmoved mover" is what aristotle calls the first -cause- in the line of instrumental causes, in the causal chain. you may call it a deity, or god, or....

of course this first cause must be eternal (infinitely old) to avoid infinite regress.

[marjoram_blues]

We need to be clear about what we each mean by a 'feeling' ( perhaps intuitive understanding; vague or irrational belief; capacity to experience the sense e.g. of worth' ) and 'belief'' ( acceptance that something is true, without proof; something one accepts as true or real, a firmly held opinion; a religious conviction ) http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... ish/belief

at this point, i don't have any "beliefs". i either "know" something is true (through proof, mainly logic and deductive reasoning), or i don't.

OK - let's keep to the nouns for comparison purposes:
So, what your life is about, right now, is a need for 'knowledge' in the sense of true, justified belief; a certain understanding as opposed to an opinion ?

[alpha]

We need to be clear about what we each mean by a 'feeling' ( perhaps intuitive understanding; vague or irrational belief; capacity to experience the sense e.g. of worth' ) and 'belief'' ( acceptance that something is true, without proof; something one accepts as true or real, a firmly held opinion; a religious conviction ) http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... ish/belief

at this point, i don't have any "beliefs". i either "know" something is true (through proof, mainly logic and deductive reasoning), or i don't.

OK - let's keep to the nouns for comparison purposes:
So, what your life is about, right now, is a need for 'knowledge' in the sense of true, justified belief; a certain understanding as opposed to an opinion ?

it would appear so.

[Jaded Sage]

The idea was to adopt this new definition and see where it leads us. Didn't someone on here call philosophers "exploreres"? I've yet to see anyone on here do anything but run away from the new (definitions) and toward the old (definitions). Maybe I'm too experienced for this shit, lol =P.

So serenity is the feeling that nothing is unimportant, or everything serves a purpose.

I think I can work with that. I've heard that my original thought was correct: that people speak of meaninglessness when they mean unhappiness. Carry on, gents.

One word of advice: don't rely so much on words and concepts and definitions so much as your own personal first-hand experience. Next time you are bonkers-bored, see if it fits the description, and same with serenity.

Peace out.

[marjoram_blues]

The idea was to adopt this new definition and see where it leads us. Didn't someone on here call philosophers "exploreres"? I've yet to see anyone on here do anything but run away from the new (definitions) and toward the old (definitions). Maybe I'm too experienced for this shit, lol =P.

Have you had an eye test recently. Your view of what has transpired here is faulty.
Too experienced in what?

[alpha]

The idea was to adopt this new definition and see where it leads us. Didn't someone on here call philosophers "exploreres"? I've yet to see anyone on here do anything but run away from the new (definitions) and toward the old (definitions). Maybe I'm too experienced for this shit, lol =P.

that's probably because we're all cowards, and you're the only courageous one here.

[marjoram_blues]

Yep, that's why definitions are so important. Ambiguity is the root of ignorance.

Ambiguity is not the root of ignorance.

Ambiguity
Fun fact: the word ‘ambiguous’, at least according to the Oxford English Dictionary, is ambiguous between two main types of meaning: uncertainty or dubiousness on the one hand and a sign bearing multiple meanings on the other. I mention this merely to disambiguate what this entry is about, which concerns a word or phrases enjoying multiple meanings. In this sense, ambiguity has been the source of much frustration, bemusement, and amusement for philosophers, lexicographers, linguists, cognitive scientists, literary theorists and critics, authors, poets, orators and just about everyone who considers the interpretation(s) of linguistic signs.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ambiguity/

The root of Ignorance
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=ignorant


However, I agree clear and consistent definitions are important to avoid confusion and vagueness in any discussion.

[marjoram_blues]

JS: One word of advice: don't rely so much on words and concepts and definitions so much as your own personal first-hand experience. Next time you are bonkers-bored, see if it fits the description, and same with serenity.



Without words, concepts and shared definitions, how can we effectively discuss our personal first-hand experiences or knowledge about how life works for us.
I don't need to be 'bored' to see if it fits in with the quote, I already know the feeling as well as the definition. It is not an either/or but a combination of both.
I disagree with the quote - see earlier post.

[alpha]

The idea was to adopt this new definition and see where it leads us. Didn't someone on here call philosophers "exploreres"? I've yet to see anyone on here do anything but run away from the new (definitions) and toward the old (definitions). Maybe I'm too experienced for this shit, lol =P.

So serenity is the feeling that nothing is unimportant, or everything serves a purpose.

I think I can work with that. I've heard that my original thought was correct: that people speak of meaninglessness when they mean unhappiness. Carry on, gents.

One word of advice: don't rely so much on words and concepts and definitions so much as your own personal first-hand experience. Next time you are bonkers-bored, see if it fits the description, and same with serenity.

Peace out.

not all people, just the ignorant ones. what's more ignorant, is trying to "enlighten" someone by addressing a presumed definition (of what that person means by a certain concept).

[marjoram_blues]

The idea was to adopt this new definition and see where it leads us. Didn't someone on here call philosophers "exploreres"? I've yet to see anyone on here do anything but run away from the new (definitions) and toward the old (definitions). Maybe I'm too experienced for this shit, lol =P.

So serenity is the feeling that nothing is unimportant, or everything serves a purpose.

I think I can work with that. I've heard that my original thought was correct: that people speak of meaninglessness when they mean unhappiness. Carry on, gents.

One word of advice: don't rely so much on words and concepts and definitions so much as your own personal first-hand experience. Next time you are bonkers-bored, see if it fits the description, and same with serenity.

Peace out.

not all people, just the ignorant ones. what's more ignorant, is trying to "enlighten" someone by addressing a presumed definition (of what that person means by a certain concept).

JS, where did you 'hear' this? What company are you keeping? You sure do make a lot of assumptions about people...'gents'
'Peace out' - do hope you're not running away...