ham sandwich

[henry quirk]

Joe walks up with a cardboard box and sez 'I got a ham sandwich in this box'.

It costs me nuthin' to accept his claim, even if he never opens the box.

I know, as fact, bread, ham, lettuce, tomato, mayo, mustard, cheese, exist. I, myself, have used those items to build ham sandwiches. That a ham sandwich may be in Joe's box doesn't violate the way the world (seems) to work.


Later in the day, Joe walks up with a cardboard box and sez 'I got a walkin', talkin', dancin', livin' ham sandwich in the box'.

That, folks, is a claim of entirely different kind.

Walkin', talkin', dancin', livin' ham sandwiches, insofar as I know, do not exist. Such a thing would be a clear violation of how the world (seems) to work. So, before I can accept Joe's claim, I'm gonna have to see the contents of that box. Moreover, I want to inspect the miracle sandwich for micro-robotics, for micro-processors, for itty-bitty speakers. That is: before I can even begin to accept the reality of the miracle sandwich, I need to verify, for myself, that it indeed 'is' a miracle sandwich.


Anecdotes about the miracle sandwich are not sufficent. Volumes of logical discourse about the miracle sandwich are not sufficent. The argued 'neccessity' of the miracle sandwich is not sufficent.

My hands, my eyes, my brain, applied to the miracle sandwich, alone is sufficent. Yes, demanding the tangible, the measurable, 'fact', real stuff, is the sphere of the unimaginative, the uncurious, the shallow, the dimbulb and yet -- as methodology -- it seems the best way to conduct an investigation.

It truly pains me that I'm incapable of sharing in the joys of belief based on belief alone. I can only hope that if God...er...a miracle sandwich...exists, then it will take pity on my limited self and allow me entry to the Great Deli In The Sky when my time comes.

[duszek]

God is good and so cannot expect too much from anyone.

Can you see or perceive in any way things such as love, justice, peace ?

[marjoram_blues]

You've gotta make your own kind of sandwich.

'Make your own kind of music' with lyrics - Mama Cass Elliot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbSM02_1k34

[henry quirk]

"Can you see or perceive in any way things such as love, justice, peace?"

I love a number of folks so am well-acquainted with love, but justice and peace?

Best I can tell, justice is just revenge dressed in Sunday finery, and peace is just the break in hostilities wherein every one takes a breather.

That is: love (valuing the other), revenge (doing unto others), and peace (gathering one's energies in preparation for the next bout) are perfectly natural and mundane expressions of human 'being'....no supernatural designer/creator/sustainer needed.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

"Can you see or perceive in any way things such as love, justice, peace?"

I love a number of folks so am well-acquainted with love, but justice and peace?

Best I can tell, justice is just revenge dressed in Sunday finery, and peace is just the break in hostilities wherein every one takes a breather.

That is: love (valuing the other), revenge (doing unto others), and peace (gathering one's energies in preparation for the next bout) are perfectly natural and mundane expressions of human 'being'....no supernatural designer/creator/sustainer needed.

That's not true at all. Justice has nothing to do with revenge. Justice is when the truth prevails.

[henry quirk]

I disagree.

Justice seems to be just fact-driven, 'justified', revenge, sometimes moderated by community standards, but -- fundmentally -- an eye for an eye.

Personally, I find naked revenge more honest and appealing than its smaller, well-dressed, sibling.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

I disagree.

Justice seems to be just fact-driven, 'justified', revenge, sometimes moderated by community standards, but -- fundmentally -- an eye for an eye.

Personally, I find naked revenge more honest and appealing than its smaller, well-dressed, sibling.

That's a very dangerous way to think of justice.

[henry quirk]

Mebbe so, but it's the best I can do.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Mebbe so, but it's the best I can do.

Revenge is only about one's own personal satisfaction and bloodlust, and is the reason there are so many innocent people who've been executed. If justice had been served, then that could never have happened. It is possible for revenge and justice to be served at the same time, but they are certainly not interchangeable.

[henry quirk]

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Disagree about what? I don't see any argument. Like disagreeing about whether or not the sun is the moon.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

PS. This thread has one of the best titles ever.

[henry quirk]

Thanks...

[duszek]

How would you try to explain love to a robot ?

He would say that because of hormones certain females feel attracted to certain males and vice versa and that´s it. That´s all a robot can see. All else is an illusion.

[henry quirk]

Well, I could say 'I wouldn't try to explain anything to a robot' but, being as I keep fartin' around with folks here who want nuthin' more than to 'be' robots, I guess saying that would make me a damned liar.

And: since I'm having no luck gettin' through to the robot brigade to see things differently, I have to say I got no clue how to explain sumthin' like love to a machine.