Consequences of Atheism

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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sthitapragya
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Re: Consequences of Atheism

Post by sthitapragya »

Gustav Bjornstrand wrote: ______________________________________

Sthita, I thought you might appreciate the intense bigotry of the position Willey is attempting to bring forward. In actual point of fact he is very aware of the intense difficulty of holding to an unexamined religious position in the face of a terrifically powerful assault.


I could not read the new Willey pages. I think there is something wrong with the URLs that you gave.
It has to be remembered that the men who took a stand against the false-positions of the religious viewpoint were mostly from religious backgrounds themselves. There is a strange Nietzschean twist on '...and the truth shall set you free'. ;-)
OF course they were. How can you reject a belief without holding it and examining it first? How can one be a disbeliever without even knowing what to believe in? There is no "Nietzschean twist" to it as you say. It is simple logic. You have to first have something to disbelieve.
In your case you have no intellectual background here, no cultural understanding, and no ability nor interest in defining 'consequences' at any level.
You could literally be holding a mirror while writing this, did you realize that?
Ah yes, the pedophile priests. Did you have interactions with any?
Are you suggesting that one should have been raped personally to comment on them? Is that your defense? See, these are things that reinforce my disbelief. It is almost as if you are willing to defend anything a religious man does, moral or immoral if only he believes. You seem to value religion above humanity. You always respond with insults but you have no explanation to give for why a priest would behave the way he does if belief is responsible for peoples behaviour. You have no response to explain why your stand is not bigotry.
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Gustav Bjornstrand
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Re: Consequences of Atheism

Post by Gustav Bjornstrand »

Image Image Image

Or these perhaps:

Image Image Image
___________________________________

How belief came to be disbelieved, the actual history of it, the references, the time-line, the debates and the polemics, this I suggest you are very weak in. Your discourse would be different if you had more background.
Are you suggesting that one should have been raped personally to comment on them? Is that your defense?
No, it is that the issue is a non-issue. There is no 'defence'. This is your baby, and I only suppose it is a result of your Catholic education. The topic is uninteresting to me. But a huge amount seems to hang on it, for you. It is an idée fixe for you. It goes like this:
  • If one believes in God, one's behaviour should more or less instantaneously transform and become perfect. But there are pedophile priests! Ah ha! Busted! Because there are supposed-believers (priests even! the ur-believers) whose behaviour has not been transformed and who have sexual obsessions, this proves that religious idealism has no part or place in moral and ethical life. Therefor, religious idealism and God, divinity, etc., is all false.
This is a stupid argument and need hardly be considered. If you cannot see the flaws in it, I cannot help you.

Previously, I suggested to you that many gay men who are now old men went into the priesthood because they were gay. I think this is a known phenomenon but I have no interest in it because I am not really interested in Catholic priests, or celibate religionists. The denial of sexuality is problematic too. I also said that if you are going to choose celibacy, you have to really be committed to it, and for the right reasons.

The Nietzschean reference went completely over your head. Here's how it works: Jesus supposedly said 'The truth shall make you free' and one supposes it was the truth of heaven within, or the truth of god's realness, or Jesus as son-of-god and redeemer of errant souls. To believe in a Christian sense is to follow those truth. And that is truth. But, what actually happened (irony of ironies) is men followed the truth, oh boy did they! - the 'real' truth, the factual truth, or the material truth - and they overturned the possibility of belief. Ha ha ha. 'And the truth shall set you free'.

Every aspect of religious belief has been overturned. The 'story' no longer functions. No element of the story, seen from our vantage, can be seen to function, to be real. Essentially, this is what Willey is on about: tracing how this happened. But the story does not end there and has not ended there. And it is that part of the evolution in idea of which you are totally, 100% ignorant. Your thrust, your attack, like every other 'atheist' who is now writing on this forum is a bold attack at the level of a child. No shit. If you come to understand this, your discourse on your own topic will improve.

Theology has in significant ways moved beyond any and all of the classical, and indefensible, positions. Were you to know something of this your overall discourse would be quite different. You simply do not understand 85% of what I write and likely the same of what Inglorious has written. You have no means to comprehend Appofishpi's experiential relationship. You have not the inner organ for it. I say that this is a kind of defect, but not because it is atheism or you are an atheist. To understand what I mean would require work on your part. You hit a wall when we speak to you. You simply cannot grok it and you employ reductionisms and other formula to defeat - not the arguments we make - but the structure of your own idea about what 'belief' is. As I say this is at a 10 year-old's level. If you come to understand this, I guarantee you will cross a barrier.

If you never do it is irrelevant to me. I have no interest in convincing you. I only want to isolate and examine the driving predicates. Showing that this can be done, and many interesting things come of it, is my project here. My discourse does not depend on your comprehension or lack of it.

Insult you? Huh? What are you talking about? This is all fun.
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Re: Consequences of Atheism

Post by The Inglorious One »

If I thought for a moment atheists here had the slightest interest Willey's insights, I'd cut-and-paste the first chapter of The Seventeenth Century Background concerning explanations.
sthitapragya
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Re: Consequences of Atheism

Post by sthitapragya »

Gustav Bjornstrand wrote:
How belief came to be disbelieved,
What does any of these stupid pages matter? What do I care what your Willey thinks about how belief came to be disbelief? Let me tell you. BELIEF CAME TO BE DISBELIEVED BECAUSE IT MAKES NO SENSE TO BELIEVE. Belief is a psychological need. Some grow out of it and some don't. Belief is denial of reality as it truly is. Believers have a problem accepting this so they come out with cockamamie theories and histories of "how belief came to be disbelieved". Good God. What will you guys think of next?


No, it is that the issue is a non-issue. There is no 'defence'.
So let me see. There is no defence. and there is no example. Now the belief in God is extended to the belief that the belief in God has consequences on the behaviour of people, right? Even this is to be taken on faith, right?
This is your baby, and I only suppose it is a result of your Catholic education. The topic is uninteresting to me. But a huge amount seems to hang on it, for you. It is an idée fixe for you.
It is a glaring example of your whole concept collapsing around you which you will never agree to. that is all.

If one believes in God, one's behaviour should more or less instantaneously transform and become perfect.

That is what you are implying. Not me. You, in fact, are refusing to elaborate on what you mean when you say that belief has consequences on peoples behaviour. Since there is no elaboration, I have no option but to believe that this is your implication.
But there are pedophile priests! Ah ha! Busted!
Absolutely!
Because there are supposed-believers (priests even! the ur-believers) whose behaviour has not been transformed and who have sexual obsessions, this proves that religious idealism has no part or place in moral and ethical life.
Again, you are proving my point.
Therefor, religious idealism and God, divinity, etc., is all false.
NOPE. THIS IS NOT WHAT I MEAN. How can a pedophile priest be proof that religious idealism, God and divinity are also false? There is no correlation. I have simply proved to you that a pedophile priest proves that religion has on consequence on the behaviour of a person. Okay, forget pedophile priests. Do you have any solid data, like maybe a high number of atheists in prison or something of that sort? Give me something. Some data. I refuse to have FAITH in the consequences of faith. That is going too far even for you.
This is a stupid argument and need hardly be considered.If you cannot see the flaws in it, I cannot help you.
So give some form of proof. Anything. Some data. And a declaration that "this argument is stupid" is just childish. You refuse to give any kind of proof at all. Or you will say, " I have given proof elsewhere. Go read it." That is just a cop out. Reproduce it here. Let us see.

The Nietzschean reference went completely over your head. Here's how it works: Jesus supposedly said 'The truth shall make you free' and one supposes it was the truth of heaven within, or the truth of god's realness, or Jesus as son-of-god and redeemer of errant souls. To believe in a Christian sense is to follow those truth. And that is truth. But, what actually happened (irony of ironies) is men followed the truth, oh boy did they! - the 'real' truth, the factual truth, or the material truth - and they overturned the possibility of belief. Ha ha ha. 'And the truth shall set you free'.
Well, He was a God. He should have been clearer. I mean come on. If a God wants people to understand something, and then He goes and says it in such a way that people misinterpret it, then there is something wrong there, isn't it? Even God cannot get his point across clearly? What is the point of all the power and strength and intelligence?
Every aspect of religious belief has been overturned.
Obviously. None of it makes any sense. And most of it contradicts most of the rest. No two religious guys agree what God means. They do not even agree with something as simple as "thou shalt not kill". What is there not to overturn?
The 'story' no longer functions. No element of the story, seen from our vantage, can be seen to function, to be real. Essentially, this is what Willey is on about: tracing how this happened. But the story does not end there and has not ended there.
And that is just sad.
And it is that part of the evolution in idea of which you are totally, 100% ignorant.
And which is your main weapon and which, again, you refuse to elaborate on. We are just supposed to take things on faith, right? "Great ideas are afoot! I have said so. So it must be true!!"
Your thrust, your attack, like every other 'atheist' who is now writing on this forum is a bold attack at the level of a child.
Well, obviously. That is how you argue childish arguments. How else do you expect to be handled? Like an adult? Try being one.
No shit. If you come to understand this, your discourse on your own topic will improve.
Try a mirror again.
Theology has in significant ways moved beyond any and all of the classical, and indefensible, positions.
Now that is just funny. Obviously, you have no plans to tell us what this "position" is?
Were you to know something of this your overall discourse would be quite different.
Possibly. But you are not going to let us know what it is, are you?
You simply do not understand 85% of what I write
Obviously, I don't. 85% of the time you don't make any sense.
You have no means to comprehend Appofishpi's experiential relationship. You have not the inner organ for it. I say that this is a kind of defect,
Well, your God made me in his image. So you can take it up with him. Or is it possible that that one has actually been overturned? Oh, and I too had an "experiential relationship". I just grew out of it.
but not because it is atheism or you are an atheist. To understand what I mean would require work on your part.
Of course. First I would have to get you to tell me what you mean. Which you are not going to.
You hit a wall when we speak to you. You simply cannot grok it and you employ reductionisms and other formula to defeat - not the arguments we make - but the structure of your own idea about what 'belief' is.
What a ridiculously pointless declaration. You lose! I win! I said so! So it must be true!
As I say this is at a 10 year-old's level. If you come to understand this, I guarantee you will cross a barrier.
Oh man! the irony! Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!
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Gustav Bjornstrand
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Re: Consequences of Atheism

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Sthita wrote:What does any of these stupid pages matter? What do I care what your Willey thinks about how belief came to be disbelief? Let me tell you ...
This is possibly the largest area of difference, not only between what informs our view, but our approach to the entire issue. You desire to make some declarations and to engage in asinine and childish fights and through these fights to end up, more or less, declaring your view the 'right' one. My approach is quite different, and to pursue that approach demands a very different methodology, a different stance taken, a different relationship to the problem, and a very different result. My main interest is in locating and highlighting the shift in predication that has produced very different relationships to being (existence, life) and to understand them not in a lower-level polemical sense, which actually pushes understanding, dialectic, and the possibility of learning and exchange out of the picture entirely, and to introduce a far higher level of criticism. Now, because you share none of this interest and intentionality it will be, evidently, quite easy for you to do away with the entire intellectual, literary, ethical, artistic, social, and cultural criticism that has been engaged in for the last 150 years more or less. There is no one, no interesting authority, no researcher, no thinker and thus no philosopher that you will need to engage in your childish project. And that is because all that you need for your argument is your declaration: Belief is 'psychological', it 'makes no sense to believe', is part of denial of reality, and every other element of your discourse. There it is. There is nothing more to be said about it. Now, with these armaments you have decided to launch yourself into a public sphere, and into a forum dedicated - or so they say - to 'philosophy'.

Your concerns, and your project in its entirety, is uninteresting to me because it is simply too shallow. You do not have an intellectual position here and yet you do have some crude ideas. You certainly have intentionality, and this I have always acknowledged, but at the core of your intentions there is little, or nothing at all, that is creative. This is a very important aspect of your project which must be understood. You can block, you can shoot down, you can repeat time and time again the only points you have - in the face of far more interesting and relevant discourse on the topic! - and you can do this in concert with others who base their position in simplicities, reductions, and polarised positions, and thus defeat a wider, more introspective, a more fair conversation from ever developing. With all this the conversation is always brought down to your level and this is I think one of the most important points: Your level is so low that it nearly has no relevance to the larger - and very important - issues into which all of this hinges.

This is why a philosopher and a critic like Willey (though Lovejoy, Tillyard, Ruth Anderson, Frank Kermode and numerous others, and of course so many classical philosophers!) are entirely relevant to this conversation. But Sthita: You have no relationship to these issues, not really, and no interest in them, and thus you are completely irrelevant. Please don't take it personal ...
___________________________________

You assert that religious philosophy, and the ethics defined in religious contexts, has no influence on either the individual man or the cultural forms. And if I have encapsulated you correctly here I can only tell you that you have a severe intellectual problem. Apparently, at least to engage with me, you will need to undertake a study whereby you come to grasp what is simply self-evident. It does not need to be talked about nor gone over, or one would do that in a class of 10 years-old who are literally just starting out.
Do you have any solid data, like maybe a high number of atheists in prison or something of that sort? Give me something. Some data ...
One problem here is that you think I am like you stuck in your established polarity. I prefer not to hang out there. In order to understand the places I prefer to hang out in, intellectually, I have submitted many pages, easily readable, by a man I admire who has done a good deal of work in the area, in this field. You think that I am here doing battle with Atheism. You think that I think it is not possible to live without an inner or a, let us say, theologically-defined relationship to life, to people, to culture. But this is not the case and I have not held (exactly) nor forwarded that opinion. What I have said and what I do say is that we are in a huge sea-change between one vast paradigm of explanation of Reality, and a new and different one, based on very different methods, extractions, and senses of value. These methods, what is extracted by perception ofor view and consideration (and valuation), and then the question of value itself: These are areas which you, as I have said, have no familiarity with, and were you to gain that familiarity your discourse would change and daresay improve. You have no business though, and no right, to side-step the efforts on my part to give this conversation some ground. Also, you should be writing complete and independent essays which are free-standing contributions to the position(s) that are of value to you. Instead you latch-on to mine and perform these cut-ups.

The 'data' that interests me is the 'data' in a whole range of study and philosophy essentially that has emerged in the last 150 years. Additionally, I may from time to time mention that I think that the abandonment of religious positions (say in the family, in a simple provincial setting, as Willey spoke of in at least one section that you read), and the loss of a received ethical platform which acts as a fence or a controlling influence, when lost or destroyed by ersatz influences, tends to destroy the ethical platform within communities of people, and that many other questionable interests then rush in to fill the void: yes, this is my view. And it is because I see it occurring around me. But that I see it and that it alarms me or concerns me, does not mean that I believe it possible to return to the decimated religious position, the group of stories or tales or fictions upon which a religious/spiritual understanding are often founded. My own position is more complex. Eighty-five percent of it you do not understand for the simple reason that you are 95% unprepared to engage in these important conversations.
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Gustav Bjornstrand
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Re: Consequences of Atheism

Post by Gustav Bjornstrand »

Inglorious wrote:If I thought for a moment atheists here had the slightest interest Willey's insights, I'd cut-and-paste the first chapter of The Seventeenth Century Background concerning explanations.
Did you find a link to an electronic version? I'd imagine there are PDFed versions. If you have a link please be so kind as to post it.
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Gustav Bjornstrand
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Re: Consequences of Atheism

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Sthita and others: I think it is time to begin a grading system for your low-level posts. The American system can work: A, B, C, D, E and F. In my own view anything below C- should be understood as failure. Your recent contributions Sthita are Ds all the way round. You definitely get a D- for 'independence of discourse' and the annoying cut-up habit. To get better marks you will have to improve in this area. Additionally, your formatting choices are poor, in my view. Whole sentences of capitals and whole underlined sentences are not working. Additionally, you need to cite sources. Who are you reading? What philosophers have you read on these topics that support your views? Because of these flat out errors I am forced to write in bold red: D- And you are right on the verge of failure. And you also get an unhappy face: :(

I don't even want to talk about Briancrc or Vegetable Taxi ...
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Re: Consequences of Atheism

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Gustav Bjornstrand wrote:Sthita and others: I think it is time to begin a grading system for your low-level posts. The American system can work: A, B, C, D, E and F. In my own view anything below C- should be understood as failure. Your recent contributions Sthita are Ds all the way round. You definitely get a D- for 'independence of discourse' and the annoying cut-up habit. To get better marks you will have to improve in this area. Additionally, your formatting choices are poor, in my view. Whole sentences of capitals and whole underlined sentences are not working. Additionally, you need to cite sources. Who are you reading? What philosophers have you read on these topics that support your views? Because of these flat out errors I am forced to write in bold red: D- And you are right on the verge of failure. And you also get an unhappy face: :(

I don't even want to talk about Briancrc or Vegetable Taxi ...
Hmm, you are the one who posts links with 'promoted material' of women with large plastic breasts.
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Gustav Bjornstrand
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Re: Consequences of Atheism

Post by Gustav Bjornstrand »

Oh now I understand. That is the 'promoted material' you refer to. FYI postimage.org is a free site that allows uplinking of PDFs which are converted for use on forums, etc. It is outside of my control unfortunately.
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Re: Consequences of Atheism

Post by The Inglorious One »

Gustav Bjornstrand wrote:
Inglorious wrote:If I thought for a moment atheists here had the slightest interest Willey's insights, I'd cut-and-paste the first chapter of The Seventeenth Century Background concerning explanations.
Did you find a link to an electronic version? I'd imagine there are PDFed versions. If you have a link please be so kind as to post it.
The Seventeenth Century Background

Thousands of other books there, too (along with two others by Willey).
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Re: Consequences of Atheism

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Modern atheistic society is trapped on a treadmill: it must keep the simple-minded amused with an unending supply of new technological toys or risk losing them to religion.
Last edited by The Inglorious One on Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Consequences of Atheism

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

The Inglorious One wrote:Modern atheistic society is trapped on a treadmilll: it must keep the simple-minded amused with an unending supply of new technologicial toys or risk losing them to religion.
Why are you religious fucks so threatened by, and hateful towards, anyone who doesn't believe in the childish bullshit you believe in? What the hell is it to you? I've never been able to work that out.
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Gustav Bjornstrand
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Re: Consequences of Atheism

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That earns you a C+ Vegetable Taxi! Your sincere dismay is acknowledged.

Can you indicate which Religious Fuck you wish to have address your most interesting question?
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Re: Consequences of Atheism

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Gustav Bjornstrand wrote:That earns you a C+ Vegetable Taxi! Your sincere dismay is acknowledged.

Can you indicate which Religious Fuck you wish to have address your most interesting question?
It was a rhetorical question, since you religious fucks are incapable of answering a direct question.
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Re: Consequences of Atheism

Post by The Inglorious One »

Aw, what the hell. I know it will be waaaay over vegetablehead's head and most others, too, but here's part 1 of Chapter 1 (the content wasn't changed, but I had to do some editing):
THE SEVENTEENTH CENTURY
BACKGROUND
CHAPTER I

The Rejection of Scholasticism

' " I perceive", said the Countess, "Philosophy is now become very Mechanical.'' "So mechanical”, said I, "that I fear we shall quickly become ashamed of it; they will have the World to be in great, what a watch is in little; which is very regular, & depends only upon the just disposing of the several parts of the movement. But pray tell me, Madam, had you not formerly a more sublime Idea of the Universe?" ' [Fontenelle, Plurality of Worlds, 1686.]

TO give a 'philosophical' account of matters which had formerly been explained 'unscientifically', 'popularly', or 'figuratively'—this, it would probably be agreed, has been the main intellectual concern of the last three hundred years. In a sense, no doubt, the separation of the 'true' from the 'false', the 'real' from the 'illusory', has been the task of thought at all times. But this winnowing process seems to have been carried on much more actively and consciously at certain times than at others. For us in the West two such periods are of especial importance, the period of Greek philosophy and the centuries following the Renaissance. It was in the seventeenth century that modern European thought seems first to have assumed, once more, that its appointed task was La Recherche de la Verite, the discovery and declaration, according to its lights, of the True Nature of Things. It is in that century that we meet once again the exhilaration which inspired Lucretius in his address to Epicurus—the sense of emancipation from inadequate notions, of new contact with reality. It was then, too, that the concepts of 'truth', 'reality', 'explanation' and the rest were being formed, which have moulded all subsequent thinking. There is some reason, then, for supposing that it may be worthwhile to watch these concepts in process of formation.

First it may be well to enquire, not with Pilate— 'What is Truth?' but what was felt to be 'truth' and 'explanation' under seventeenth century conditions. As T. E. Hulme and others have pointed out, it is almost insuperably difficult to become critically conscious of one's own habitual assumptions; 'doctrines felt as facts' can only be seen to be doctrines, and not facts, after great efforts of thought, and usually only with the aid of a first-rate metaphysician. It is, however, less difficult to detect the assumptions of an age distant from our own, especially when these have been subject to criticism. At this distance of time it should be possible, I think, to state fairly accurately what the seventeenth century felt as 'true', and what satisfied it as 'explanation'. In reading seventeenth century writers one feels that it was as 'explanation' that they chiefly valued the 'new philosophy', and it is for this reason that I wish first to enquire, briefly, what is 'explanation'?

Dictionary definitions will not help us much here. 'To explain', we learn, means to 'make clear', to 'render intelligible'. But wherein consists the clarity, the intelligibility? The clarity of an explanation seems to depend upon the degree of satisfaction that it affords. An explanation 'explains' best when it meets some need of our nature, some deep-seated demand for assurance. 'Explanation' may perhaps be roughly defined as a restatement of something—event, theory, doctrine, etc. in terms of the current interests and assumptions. It satisfies, as explanation, because it appeals to that particular set of assumptions, as superseding those of a past age or of a former state of mind. Thus it is necessary, if an explanation is to seem satisfactory, that its terms should seem ultimate, incapable of further analysis. Directly we allow ourselves to ask ' What, after all, does this explanation amount to? ' we have really demanded an explanation of the explanation, that is to say, we have seen that the terms of the first explanation are not ultimate, but can be analysed into other terms—which perhaps for the moment do seem to us to be ultimate. Thus, for example, we may choose to accept a psychological explanation of a metaphysical proposition, or we may prefer a metaphysical explanation of a psychological proposition. All depends upon our presuppositions, which in turn depend upon our training, whereby we have come to regard (or to feel) one set of terms as ultimate, the other not. An explanation commands our assent with immediate authority, when it presupposes the 'reality', the 'truth', of what seems to us most real, most true. One cannot, therefore, define 'explanation' absolutely; one can only say that it is a statement which satisfies the demands of a particular time or place.

A general demand for restatement or explanation seems to have arisen from time to time, perhaps never more vehemently than in the period we are considering. Such a demand presumably indicates a disharmony between traditional explanations and current needs. It does not necessarily imply the 'falsehood' of the older statement; it may merely mean that men now wish to live and to act according to a different formula. This is especially evident in our period whenever a 'scientific' explanation replaces a theological one. For example, the spots on the moon's surface might be due, theologically, to the fact that it was God's will they should be there; scientifically they might be 'explained' as the craters of extinct volcanoes. The newer explanation may be said, not so much to contain 'more' truth than the older, as to supply the kind of truth which was now demanded. An event was 'explained'—and this, of course, may be said as much of our own time as of the seventeenth century—when its history had been traced and described. A comet, for example, or an eclipse, was explained when instead of being a disastrous omen which 'with fear of change perplexes monarchs' it could be shown to be the 'necessary' result of a demonstrable chain of causes. No one, it need hardly be said, wishes to deny that this explanation had and still has a more 'satisfying' quality than the one it superseded. But why was it more satisfying? It was more satisfying, we may suppose, because now, instead of the kind of 'truth' which is consistent with authoritative teaching, men began to desire the kind which would enable them to measure, to weigh and to control the things around them; they desired, in Bacon's words, 'to extend more widely the limits of the power and greatness of man Interest was now directed to the how, the manner of causation, not its why, its final cause. For a scientific type of explanation to be satisfying, for it to convince us with a sense of its necessary truth, we must be in the condition of needing and desiring that type of explanation and no other.

The seventeenth century was the first of the modern centuries which, on the whole, have increasingly fulfilled these conditions. We have said that an explanation is acceptable when it satisfies certain needs and demands. What demands were met by the scientific movement in our period? To answer this question we may enquire a little into the general effects of explanation upon the minds of those who are being enlightened. Considered as a psychological event, an explanation may be described as a change in the quality of our response towards an object or an idea. An explanation invites and—if it is in accordance with our felt or unfelt needs—produces a new attitude towards its subject-matter. here we had formerly felt fear, pain, curiosity, dissatisfaction, anxiety or reverence, we now experience relief, and regard the object with easy familiarity and perhaps contempt. An explained thing, except for very resolute thinkers, is almost inevitably 'explained away'. Speaking generally, it may be said that the demand for explanation is due to the desire to be rid of mystery. Such a demand will be most insistent when the current mysteries have become unusually irksome, as seems to have been the case in the time of Epicurus, and again at the Renaissance. At those turning-points men wanted 'scientific' explanations because they no longer wished to feel as they had been taught to feel about the nature of things. To be rid of fear—fear of the unknown, fear of the gods, fear of the stars or of the devil—to be released from the necessity of reverencing what was not to be understood, these were amongst the most urgent demands of the modern as of the ancient world; and it was because it satisfied these demands that scientific explanation was received as the revelation of truth. Not immediately received by everybody, we should remind ourselves. There are always those like Donne for whom new philosophy 'puts all in doubt', for whom, in fact, new explanation explains nothing, but merely causes distress and confusion ; and those, like the Fathers of the Inquisition, for whom new philosophy is simply old error. But there is a deepening chorus of approval as the century wears on, and after the Restoration the unanimity is wonderful.

More was demanded than mere release from traditional hauntings. Men demanded also to feel at home in this brave new world which Columbus and Copernicus and Galileo had opened up to them, and to recognise it as 'controlled, sustained and agitated', by laws in some way akin to those of human reason. To be no longer at the mercy of nature, no longer to be encompassed by arbitrary mystery—these benefits were to be accompanied by the great new gift of power, power to control natural forces and to turn them, in Bacon's phrases, to the 'occasions and uses of life', and 'the relief of man's estate'. All this the new thought promised and indeed performed ; no wonder, then, that the types of explanation which it offered seemed the only 'true' ones. Were these promises the enticements of Mephistopheles to Faust? and has the Adversary, at any time since then, actually reappeared and demanded payment of his bond? This disturbing possibility is one which, at any rate, we shall not do ill to bear in mind as we pursue our enquiries.

We began, it will be remembered, by enquiring what was felt to be most true, most real, most explanatory,under seventeenth century conditions. Let us guard against any implied over-simplification ; no one thing answered to that description, then or at any time. Different kinds of truth were acknowledged (as we shall see later in more detail), for instance truths of faith and truths of reason; different orders of reality were recognised, and different kinds of explanation seen to be relevant in varying contexts. Nevertheless it may be said that if there was then any outstanding intellectual revolution in process of enactment, it was a general transference of interest from metaphysics to physics, from the contemplation of Being to the observation of Becoming. In Bacon's classification of the Sciences, final causes and Form are consigned to Metaphysics, while Physics deals with efficient causes and Matter. But although Metaphysics is thus given its status by the buccinator novi temporis, the main significance of the great instauration was to lie in the enormous extension of the field of physical or ' natural ' causation, the field of efficient causes and matter '. In the mighty ' exantlation of truth—of which Sir Thomas Browne lamented that he should not see the end, or more, indeed, than ' that obscured Virgin half out of the pit '—no event counted for more than the realisation that almost all the phenomena of the physical world could be ' explained ' by the laws of motion, as movements of particles of matter in space and time. As Glanvill says, the Aristotelian philosophy had prevailed, until the present age disinterred ' the more excellent Hypotheses of Democritus and Epicurus'. Although not all mysteries, by any means, had yet been reduced to mechanics, what is important for us is that now mechanico-materialistic explanations began to be 'felt as facts', felt, that is, as affording that picture of reality, of things-in-themselves, which alone would satisfy contemporary demands. It was only when you were interpreting any phenomenon—a colour, a movement, a condition, an attraction—in terms of the motion of atoms, their impingement on each other, their cohesion, collision or eddying, that you were giving an account of how things actually and really happened. The mechanical explanation was the 'philosophical' explanation; all others were, on the one hand, vulgar, superstitious, and superficial; or, on the other hand, they were 'Aristotelian' or 'scholastic'.
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