It was only a matter of Time before I made an appearance

[artisticsolution]

Aww, fuck it. Why bother. You make it sound like I'm talking about the presently existing, and not possible future ones. Huge difference.

Sorry Dalek but how are future existing any different thanote presently exsisting. Human do as humans do. I wish you could make me understand your point. I want to understand your explanation. I am not interested in reading a book that spoke to you as I have precious little time. If you careally to clarify great, if not, don't blame me, I am not a mind reader.

[Dalek Prime]

Aww, fuck it. Why bother. You make it sound like I'm talking about the presently existing, and not possible future ones. Huge difference.

Sorry Dalek but how are future existing any different thanote presently exsisting. Human do as humans do. I wish you could make me understand your point. I want to understand your explanation. I am not interested in reading a book that spoke to you as I have precious little time. If you careally to clarify great, if not, don't blame me, I am not a mind reader.

You are existent. You're existence matters because of that fact. You know of existence, and therefore care about it, as you should and do, as it is your reality. A possible future existent, that is, a non-existent, knows nothing of existence, because there is none. 'It' doesnt miss it. Doesn't need it. And there is no point to bringing it into existence, creating needs and desires that it previously didn't have.

Please remember, there is nothing there. I am using phrases and words to describe non-existents merely as a convenience. Feel free to have me clarify or expand on anything. I'm happy that you are open minded and showing interest.

[artisticsolution]

D : A possible future existent, that is, a non-existent, knows nothing of existence, because there is none. 'It' doesnt miss it. Doesn't need it. And there is no point to bringing it into existence, creating needs and desires that it previously didn't have.


AS: if therected is no point in bringing it into existence then there is no point not bringing it into existence.

But that is all speculative anyway...we don't know for 100% if there is a point or not to existence.

[Dalek Prime]

D : A possible future existent, that is, a non-existent, knows nothing of existence, because there is none. 'It' doesnt miss it. Doesn't need it. And there is no point to bringing it into existence, creating needs and desires that it previously didn't have.

AS: if therected is no point in bringing it into existence then there is no point not bringing it into existence.
How did you arrive at this conclusion?
But that is all speculative anyway...we don't know for 100% if there is a point or not to existence.
Nice cop out. Are you saying you would prefer to drop this discussion, or are you up to continuing? I'll answer you if you are.

Btw, I didn't say anything about a point to existence. I said there was no point in creating a new one. Try not to change my wording or meaning. In truth, there are ethical reasons not to create new existence, but zero ethical reasons to create a new existence.

[artisticsolution]

In truth, there are ethical reasons not to create new existence, but zero ethical reasons to create a new existence.[/color]

[/quote]

What are the ethical reasons not to create new existence?

[Dalek Prime]

In truth, there are ethical reasons not to create new existence, but zero ethical reasons to create a new existence.

What are the ethical reasons not to create new existence?

I'll give you mine if you'll give me yours. Fair exchange? Not being coy. I'd just rather counter your objections first. So, what are the reasons for creating a new existence, that solely benefits the potential existent, and not the existing parent or parent's society? Seriously, work with me on this. It'll be that exercise in philosophy we said we were going to work on together.

[artisticsolution]

In truth, there are ethical reasons not to create new existence, but zero ethical reasons to create a new existence.

What are the ethical reasons not to create new existence?

I'll give you mine if you'll give me yours. Fair exchange? Not being coy. I'd just rather counter your objections first. So, what are the reasons for creating a new existence, that solely benefits the potential existent, and not the existing parent or parent's society? Seriously, work with me on this. It'll be that exercise in philosophy we said we were going to work on together.

That's ant odd question. There is no way to know anything about no thing.

Okay.. I showed you mine....now you go.

[Obvious Leo]

I'd just rather counter your objections first. So, what are the reasons for creating a new existence, that solely benefits the potential existent, and not the existing parent or parent's society?

Why would you say this? Why would a new existent not be of benefit to the parent of such existent? In my own case I would refute this utterly. Also how could you so unilaterally claim that the new existent could not benefit his or her society? Is this truly the case you're trying to make or have I misunderstood your meaning completely?

[God]

Okay, you won't say 'how' you made the universe, but mebbe you can tell me 'why' you made the universe.

Are you able but unwilling to prevent evil? Or are you unwilling but able to prevent evil? Either way why call yourself god?

In the beginning there was Me. I was the All that made up Everything. I knew Everything. I was Everything. But there was a Void. An 'emptiness' in Me. Nothing happened. Just Me contained in Me. Knowing All. It was all rather static... and boring. I tried Origami, folding My formless form (-yes, I know what I will say will be up for semantic kick about... But I don't expect you to understand. Sometimes I don't think you can. You simply lack the faculties or have not yet come up with the technologies to answer some of the questions you posit yourself.)

Anyway where was I? ... Ah yes, Me. Playing around with Origami, something happened. I realised out of what I was, I could create things... and I could invest things with something called free will or give them their own inertial momentum, if you like... I watched with Joy as the Origami took on a direction of its own, still connected to Me, still containing and being contained by Me, and knowable to me. And that was it. That was when the Universe exploded into being.

I've watched as things expanded, and contracted, and as they expanded I too expanded... into and out of Myself. The Joy I feel as My being formulates and reformulates under its own steam is amazing. It's liberating.

The things I created can interact and evolve. I can interact with them... and sometimes do but to control everything, which I could so easily do, can only bring me back to that sense of void. Control is not liberating.

A lot of what you understand about Me, has been passed down to you through the ages via mutating systems of belief, that change under the weight of their own cultures and acquisition of knowledge. I look at the Bible and understand it to be several generations of people attempting to understand Me, what I have done, at times contradicting each other, all in my name. These are the things you do. Not Me. I have attempted to directly speak to you over Millenia but, Man is limited in his understanding by what he already knows. The Hindu shruti and smriti, The Torah, the Bible, the Quran... All versions of events, as accounted by Man. The Koran is the closest I came to dictating the words, sent via a divine messenger, to a man who had to rote learn the verses... and guess what? Yet another version of what I was trying to say appeared, coloured by the man, the age and culture in which he appeared. He could only understand what he could understand, as dependant on, and limited by, his own stage of development. Buddhism, at its purest, is so far the closest Man has come to understanding himself, spiritually, without trying to define Me... and he still has a way to go.

Evil was born out of free will, that Man could choose. Given the choice 'to do' or 'not do', which includes the choice 'to do' or 'not do' what he understands to be 'moral' or 'not moral', Man determines and creates his own evils through choice.

I knew this, but it didn't stop Me trying to update the message to Mankind. I knew mistakes would continue to be made and repeated by Man even as he continued to believe in Me. In the early days it seemed easy to just wipe out the mistakes, the evil, but it wouldn't eradicate evil. I thought it best to retire into non-involvement and allow Man to take his own steps towards fulfilling or failing his design.

I don't expect you to understand Me with precision, you are limited in what you can know and how you can know it... but I do Love you. You are my creation.

So now I come to the question "If you Love us, how can you let us suffer? How can you let us die?" In the early days it seemed easy to just wipe out the mistakes, the evil, but it wouldn't eradicate evil. It seemed to clear the slate only for more evil to appear. I thought it best to retire into non-involvement and allow Man to his own steps towards fulfilling or failing his design. Your suffering is part of what tests your mettle. "If it doesn't kill you it makes you stronger..." To which I would add "... or makes you succumb to evil". Being abused can cause the abused to respond to abuse by challenging and eradicating it. In doing so, depending on how they do it, the abused can become the abusers. Or perhaps the abused will just succumb to the abuse, integrating into their reality, only to repeat the pattern of abuse. That's you. I gave you free will.. After that you really should have been left on your own from the start. It's my Love for you that occasionally makes me intervene. It's a weakness of Mine. But that's Love.

... ever wonder why God made death? ... He could have just made death easy, like upon death everyone gets a pleasure sensation or something? There is absolutely no reason to make it unpleasant.

Why should Death be any easier than life? How should it be independent from the choices you make? People die in accidents, the result of misjudgement or folly on their part, or the part of others. Others die as a result of the pitiful way in which they 'take care' of themselves. Then there is the infirmity of old age, a return to being childlike, as you let go of independence, and once again rely on the kindnesses of others to care for you. It keeps man steady in his ability to care...or not, depending on how humanity evolves. The moment of release is a beautiful thing and, in the original design, I planted the ability to see that which you love on departing Life. Some see loved ones, some just feel peace. Of all the things humans should be teaching themselves about, alongside Science and Humanities, Man seems to have neglected Death: that it occurs, how it occurs, how not to be afraid of it. The attitude towards Death remains in the shadows.

Death is just a process that frees your spirit from Life. How it occurs is down to how you live. At its simplest it's just a decay of the physical body to release the potent energy that is the 'soul'. What you term suffering is part of living. How and why you suffer is determined by you and what you do. That I allow suffering is part of the package that allowed you. I 'suffer' too but I suffer gladly.

[Obvious Leo]

The problem with gods is that their novelty value quickly wears off. Some have even been known to hang around for thousands of years without realising that they've gone well past their "sell by" date.

[God]

The problem with gods is that their novelty value quickly wears off. Some have even been known to hang around for thousands of years without realising that they've gone well past their "sell by" date.

Tell that to the billions that continue to 'dial Me up'. Or the ones that continue to post on this thread to do nothing more constructive than bitch, rather than walk on to better things.

[Hobbes' Choice]

The problem with gods is that their novelty value quickly wears off. Some have even been known to hang around for thousands of years without realising that they've gone well past their "sell by" date.

Tell that to the billions that continue to 'dial Me up'. Or the ones that continue to post on this thread to do nothing more constructive than bitch, rather than walk on to better things.

Many of us do "tell that". But one thing that goes with Faith is the unerring ability to fail to listen. Speaking of walking why don't you run along and crawl back under your out-of-date rock from whence you came?

[God]

The problem with gods is that their novelty value quickly wears off. Some have even been known to hang around for thousands of years without realising that they've gone well past their "sell by" date.

Tell that to the billions that continue to 'dial Me up'. Or the ones that continue to post on this thread to do nothing more constructive than bitch, rather than walk on to better things.

Many of us do "tell that". But one thing that goes with Faith is the unerring ability to fail to listen. Speaking of walking why don't you run along and crawl back under your out-of-date rock from whence you came?

Possibly because this is a thread I began for people who wanted to discover who I am, by way of introduction. I was responding to questions that were asked of Me, one of which was yours... and it is you that seems to not want to listen. Make up your mind as to whether you wish to engage or not!

Maybe it is you who should run along to tend to threads that can actually benefit from your clearly 'informed' and 'valuable' opinion. (I'm still trying to get the hang of sarcasm... Was that OK????)

[Obvious Leo]

Sarcasm is a highly nuanced skill and is generally best left to those with a natural flair for it. Don't give up your day job, god.

[God]

Sarcasm is a highly nuanced skill and is generally best left to those with a natural flair for it. Don't give up your day job, god.

So you don't want Me to run away and crawl under a rock?