It was only a matter of Time before I made an appearance

[henry quirk]

J-1,

Okay, you won't say 'how' you made the universe, but mebbe you can tell me 'why' you made the universe.

Assuming you are the Big Kahuna, I have some ideas about the 'why', and, why the universe (and the stuff in it) is as it 'is', but I'll let you set the record straight, as you will.

[artisticsolution]

What's up with death, AS? What's up with existence, I would ask. Completely unnecessary and pointless process, sandwiched between two perfectly good oblivions.

I am having a particularly good "process" even if it is pointless Dalek. never to have existed? Well then...I wouldn't know any better so I can't speak to that. But I do exist and I can't forget that I do....and I am curious to see whats,happens next, if anything. So what does it matter if it is but a mere blink?

[Dalek Prime]

What's up with death, AS? What's up with existence, I would ask. Completely unnecessary and pointless process, sandwiched between two perfectly good oblivions.

I am having a particularly good "process" even if it is pointless Dalek. never to have existed? Well then...I wouldn't know any better so I can't speak to that. But I do exist and I can't forget that I do....and I am curious to see whats,happens next, if anything. So what does it matter if it is but a mere blink?

The process always matters to those who have a stake in it, including me. Of course you care about it, as an existent. But if there was no existence, there would be no death. And as you brought up the subject of death, I thought I'd point that out.

So, it's okay that you question the reason for death, but I can't question the reason for the sole cause of it?

[thedoc]

Just a bit of advice concerning the user identifying himself as 'god', Don't feed the troll.

[Dalek Prime]

Just a bit of advice concerning the user identifying himself as 'god', Don't feed the troll.

Agreed.

[Obvious Leo]

So, it's okay that you question the reason for death, but I can't question the reason for the sole cause of it?

I think you've got the reason for death fairly well worked out AS. The reason for death is life. The reason for life is a rather more complicated question and I don't think it's really my place to explain it to you. It starts out with "When mummy and daddy really really love each other"... and sort of goes on from there. I thinks it's probably best if you ask your Mum to explain the rest of the story.

[artisticsolution]

So, it's okay that you question the reason for death, but I can't question the reason for the sole cause of it?

I think you've got the reason for death fairly well worked out AS. The reason for death is life. The reason for life is a rather more complicated question and I don't think it's really my place to explain it to you. It starts out with "When mummy and daddy really really love each other"... and sort of goes on from there. I thinks it's probably best if you ask your Mum to explain the rest of the story.

I hate all that Freud, 'the goal of life, is death" crap. There is absolutely no reason to come to negative solutions all of the time. There is just as much reason that a positive solution could be the answer as well. As, since no one knows the answer, the answer is a fucking crap shoot.

I was having this same argument with my son today. It just seems to me, that death is the shortest part of life. So why give it that much credit? And I really don't think you have to explain life to me, since you have no idea what my life or death for that matter is about.

Why is it the negative answers are always held in high esteem...as if they 'mean' something or are more 'cool' or hip? They mean nothing...they mean as much as the positive...which is also nothing. Nothing is neither bad or good. Nothing is nothing.

I don't get why people always jump on the negative bandwagon like they are all deep and shit. I think in order to be deep you have to dig deeper than humanities dark side and perhaps think a little about the positive?

[Obvious Leo]

I hate all that Freud, 'the goal of life, is death" crap.

So do I and I was agreeing with you. All I said was that the reason for death is life but surely the goal of life is something which each of us is free to define for ourselves. The "reason" for life is simply the cause of life and that is a purely biological question.

[Dalek Prime]

So, it's okay that you question the reason for death, but I can't question the reason for the sole cause of it?

I think you've got the reason for death fairly well worked out AS. The reason for death is life. The reason for life is a rather more complicated question and I don't think it's really my place to explain it to you. It starts out with "When mummy and daddy really really love each other"... and sort of goes on from there. I thinks it's probably best if you ask your Mum to explain the rest of the story.

I hate all that Freud, 'the goal of life, is death" crap. There is absolutely no reason to come to negative solutions all of the time. There is just as much reason that a positive solution could be the answer as well. As, since no one knows the answer, the answer is a fucking crap shoot.

I was having this same argument with my son today. It just seems to me, that death is the shortest part of life. So why give it that much credit? And I really don't think you have to explain life to me, since you have no idea what my life or death for that matter is about.

Why is it the negative answers are always held in high esteem...as if they 'mean' something or are more 'cool' or hip? They mean nothing...they mean as much as the positive...which is also nothing. Nothing is neither bad or good. Nothing is nothing.

I don't get why people always jump on the negative bandwagon like they are all deep and shit. I think in order to be deep you have to dig deeper than humanities dark side and perhaps think a little about the positive?

I hate Freud too. I'm not talking about Freud. And don't give me that about the negative being given precedence over the positive. The world is ruled by positivism. Otherwise I'd have nothing to complain about.

[artisticsolution]

I hate all that Freud, 'the goal of life, is death" crap.

So do I and I was agreeing with you. All I said was that the reason for death is life but surely the goal of life is something which each of us is free to define for ourselves. The "reason" for life is simply the cause of life and that is a purely biological question.

Sorry Leo, I am purely at fault here. I was having my own argument in my own head...lol. I do agree that all we can know are the 'facts' of the cause of life. But I wasn't so much talking about how we came to be biologically...I was thinking more along the lines of what life means once we get here up until the time of death.

It seems to me that our time of birth and our time of death is so sudden it is inconsequential, in the same way our lives are inconsequential to Dalek. He argued that they are inconsequential in the larger scheme of things as far as the universe. I just think the same can go for birth to death and why those two things could be so important in the whole scheme of things concerning our lives.

If are lives are so short to be inconsequential, then birth and death are even more inconsequential...in the grand scheme of things....

[artisticsolution]

I hate Freud too. I'm not talking about Freud. And don't give me that about the negative being given precedence over the positive. The world is ruled by positivism. Otherwise I'd have nothing to complain about.

What are you talking about? The negative is given precedence. Oh sure, people like to talk all rainbows and jesus loves you, but do they really mean it? How many of them are eager to punish, pretending they are God, albeit a dysfunctional God? They even go as far as to punish those who are kind! Kindness is seen as weakness. And forget about being kind and innocent both....or should I say, trying to live your life shunning negativity....you are doomed to a life of 'dork' if you refuse to show your mean side.

You can't even say Donny Osmond, without thinking "Dork"....he is truly cringe worthy...and for what? Because he is saccharin sweet? But then take a look at people like Johnny Cash and say jimi hendrix...who had many negative problems in their lives. but somehow they are just 'cooler'. (I am not placing a value on true kindness or weakness by these examples, I am just trying to show contrast. I have absolutely no idea about these people in a deeper sense...I am just showing the public persona that is appealing vs that which is not.)

I brought up freud because it's the same here but on a larger scale, Here is a guy who fucking duped the world with his neurosis. The world ate his shit up hook line and sinker, not because he was right...but because they were chomping at the bit for a 'scientific' justification for their meanness. The mean finally had a way to tout their 'neurosis' as 'hip' and 'cool' and in need of further study. They made it 'popular' to be negative. What a fucking dream world for the narcissists among us! (not that being mentally ill is all about being narcissistic, but that it seems to me, esp in the 70's and 80's, psychoanalysis was all the rage...and I don't believe all who sought 'therapy' were mentally ill.)

The world pretends to be nice....but underlying is negative, and if you've actually read anything you've written on this forum, that is what you are really complaining about. I mean, come on, I have never heard you say, "I was too genuinely loved in my life, that is why I hate everyone. "

"There is too much kindness in the world!", said no one ever.

[Lacewing]

Why is it the negative answers are always held in high esteem...as if they 'mean' something or are more 'cool' or hip?

I think it's often a way of avoiding responsibility for our experience. Such as, "Ah well, everything is screwed anyway, so why should we care or try?" It's a way of trying to justify crappy attitudes, inefficiency, laziness, hatefulness, and lack of courage. When I see myself or someone else fall into this, I want to ask: "Really? We can't envision and manifest anything better to do with this experience?" Why not stretch and explore and see what we're capable of? But a lot of people jump on the gloomy bandwagon to know-it-all-town, and blame everything else for what they themselves are envisioning and creating... and then they tell themselves and each other they're uniquely intelligent for doing so.

[Obvious Leo]

While in the main I agree with most of the contributors to this topic I simply cannot agree that the the life of an individual is inconsequential to the broader domain of the human journey. As a philosopher and a historian of science I can think of countless examples where the insights of a single individual have led to spectacular advances in human knowledge and I don't for a moment regard science as the only route by which human knowledge can be advanced. Indeed as a writer myself I place the wordsmiths throughout the ages on an even more exalted plateau when it comes to unravelling the nature of the human experience but I don't stop there either. In every field of human endeavour there have been exceptional people who have made a difference to the future of our species for both good and ill and it is within the gift of all of us to do likewise. We don't all have to write a symphony or win an Olympic medal to ennoble ourselves and give meaning to our lives. For most of us the simple trudge through our daily lives can do this for us, as long as we do it honourably, because if we all do this then when we do leave this world there's a fair chance that we'll be leaving a better world than the one we were born into.

For me this is enough and I would be perfectly satisfied to have such an epitaph chiselled onto my gravestone.

Here lies Leo. He gave it his best shot.

[artisticsolution]

I agree with you both Lacewing and leo. There is no sense in not living life purposefully. I mean, even if it is for naught, the point is we are here now. We aren't in oblivion.....yet.

[Dalek Prime]

Aww, fuck it. Why bother. You make it sound like I'm talking about the presently existing, and not possible future ones. Huge difference.