Questions we'll never solve

For all things philosophical.

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Obvious Leo
Posts: 4007
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 1:05 am
Location: Australia

Re: Questions we'll never solve

Post by Obvious Leo »

PoeticUniverse wrote: 23. Can there be something extra or super, a so called ‘intangible’ that still can interact with the tangible?
And also no for another reason which is central to the philosophical discourse which is that ultimately Simplicity is Truth. That which is unnecessary cannot be and the process universe is at all times sufficient to itself.

The monadology of Leibniz was always a rather confusing amalgam of ideas which were never truly properly formulated but they contained the seeds of a revolution in the procedures of human thought which evolved over the subsequent two centuries into what is nowadays known as information theory. Perhaps the scholar who was most influential in the advancement of Leibniz's ideas was George Boole, a 19th century philosopher/mathematician who published two seminal works which were to underpin what was later to become the science of computation. "The Laws of thought" and "The Mathematical analysis of Logic" were in my opinion the most significant advances in mathematical philosophy since the Persians and were the basis of Charles Babbage's first linear computer. Over the succeeding century these ideas rapidly evolved and in the first half of the 20th century they culminated in the work of some truly remarkable minds, such as those of Claude Shannon and Alan Turing. These guys were not philosophers but mathematicians, but ideas have a way of finding their own place in time and these revolutionary ideas of defining reality as a dynamic entity which is continuously being MADE had already been strongly canvassed in the philosophies of both Charles Sanders Peirce and Alfred North Whitehead. In their Newtonian zeal the physicists simply ignored all these developing ideas and thundered on into the darkness building their sandcastles in the air on the back of Newton's flawed metaphysical assumptions. Nobody took the trouble to reprise the pages of science history and question these assumptions even though Leibniz had utterly repudiated them some two centuries earlier, a repudiation confirmed by Ernst Mach and empirically proven by Michelson and Morley. We can but wonder why.

At the same time a genius of truly lofty calibre and the true father of relativity, Henri Poincare, was also being steadfastly ignored as he howled in dismay at the cavalier way in which the simplest of simple ideas had been translated into a mathematical abomination by a dunderhead called Hermann Minkowski who didn't know his epistemological arse from his ontological elbow.

Relativity is NOT some complex idea which can only be understood by supergeeks who speak through machines with their eyelashes. Relativity is the simplest of all possible logical propositions which was first enunciated as a formal scientific doctrine by Galileo. There is no state of absolute rest anywhere in our universe. Every physical entity in our universe is moving relative to every other physical entity in our universe and that is absolutely all there is to it. Once Newton had figured out that the trajectory of such motions was determined by gravity the job was done and the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle sat starkly before him. We cannot determine both the location and the momentum of an object simultaneously for the simple reason that it can't HAVE both simultaneously and this blindly obvious truth applies as much to a jumbo jet as it applies to a sub-atomic particle. Galilean relativity was simply a correct definition of determinism which Newton was incapable of understanding in his blind religious zealotry. Newton simply assumed that determinism and pre-determinism were synonymous constructs because he assumed that the universe was the creation of an omnipotent being.

Poincare was a true Natural Philosopher of the old school, thoroughly familiar with all the sciences as well as the metaphysical constructs which underpinned them. He was a genuine polymath who had the relativity of space and time firmly in his conceptual grasp while Einstein was still a baby. However what he didn't have were the mathematical tools to formulate his ideas into a formal mathematical model. He knew perfectly well that Newton's classical tools would be inadequate to the task and he spent years of his life laying the groundwork for a new system of non-linear mathematics which eventually evolved into what is now known as fractal geometry. Since the time of Heraclitus it had been assumed that no science could ever be founded on the assumption of a living and dynamic reality so Poincare's task was a formidable one but he knew bloody well what his task was. Newtonian physics was not only metaphysically flawed but meta-mathematically incapable of modelling the real dynamic universe. However because he was a Frenchman at a time when the French were regarded with grave suspicion by the German mathematical establishment his howls of protest went unheeded and this was a great tragedy for the future of physics because the German mathematical establishment got it fucking WRONG. They chased a rabbit into a cul-de-sac and they've languished there ever since.

You don't need to be a computer whiz-kid to understand how the universe works but it helps if you've got a rudimentary grasp of the basic principles of computation. Firstly it must be stated that the cosmic computer is totally unlike the Newtonian contraption we have on our desktops because the universe is a computer without a programme. The technical name for such a self-programming computer is that it is one which runs an EVOLUTIONARY algorithm, which in the common parlance simply means that the universe makes it up as it goes along. A remarkable feature of such a self-programming computer is that the longer it runs the more complex the informational sub-structures which evolve within it and this process is exquisitely modelled by John Conway in his Game of Life and by Benoit Mandelbrot in the Mandelbrot set. This model of a self-programming computer can therefore account for the existence of life and mind in our universe, something which the true illuminati of physics have always been convinced that an ontologically viable cosmology must inevitably achieve.

Like all computers the cosmos has a smallest possible informational "bit", which in honour of Leibniz I have called the monad. Similarly like all computers the cosmic computer has a processing speed which is simply equated with the speed of light and thus we must think of the speed of light as the speed at which reality is being MADE. The monad is a time interval which can be loosely equated with the Planck interval in spacetime physics because it is the briefest possible interval of time in which we can meaningfully say that something has actually happened. That such a quantised time interval must exist dates back to Zeno and the pre-Socratics but it is a refutation of Newton who assumed that time must be infinitely divisible. This is a metaphysical absurdity because the notion of a time interval in which nothing has occurred is a logical non-sequitur, since time and change are simply two different expressions of the same thing. The monad is quantised equivalently with gravity, with which it bears a precise mathematical relationship which is inversely logarithmic in its nature, as demonstrated by Einstein in GR, and this inversely logarithmic relationship obtains all the way down to the Planck scale. This is quantum gravity because it is this fundamental asymmetry between time and gravity at the Planck scale which is the causal mechanism which brings forth our entire universe in all its complexity and glory. This is the ding an sich of reality at its most fundamental scale and it is this relationship which accounts for all the various epistemic objects which physics invents to model the world, such as particles, waves, fields and forces. These mathematical objects are NOT properties of the universe but merely properties of the human minds which have the capacity to model the self-organising patterns which spontaneously emerge from the evolutionary process of the non-linear computation. The way I like to put this is that reality is not made according to the "laws of physics" but rather that the "laws of physics" are made according to reality, with the significant qualification that these so-called "laws" are no such thing. They are a procedure of thought totally in the ownership of the observer.

To complete the picture we need only understand the monad as a binary logic gate. The monad has only two physical properties, these being its information/energy content and the duration of its existence in this state, as determined by gravity. We simply think of the monad as BECOMING its own next monad with either a higher or lower information content and that whether this information content goes up or down is determined by every other monad in the continuously emerging gravity/time continuum. Once again this is simple relativity because we already know that the behaviour of every single entity in the universe causally affects the behaviour of every other and that the speed of this information transfer is defined as the speed of light. However Einstein was a charming man with a robust sense of humour who certainly didn't mind a good belly laugh at his own expense and I reckon he'd have a good chuckle about this ding an sich model. In the real reality the speed of light is the most inconstant speed in the universe whereas in his holographic representation of its past it appears to be a constant. That's because nothing moves in a reality which no longer exists.

This is the self-causal universe. QED.
Obvious Leo
Posts: 4007
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 1:05 am
Location: Australia

Re: Questions we'll never solve

Post by Obvious Leo »

surreptitious57 wrote:
Obvious Leo wrote:
All of physics is Platonist and thus essentially creationist because it assumes a priori that the universe had a beginning
Even if this were true [ it is not ] it would not be scientifically valid unless it could be potentially falsified
Science has nothing to say about the nature of reality. For all it does is investigate observable phenomena
It is not actually known at this point in time whether the Universe had a beginning or not nor it is assumed
You're simply refuting what I say by saying what I refute which does not constitute an argument. The universe with a beginning is a statement of belief because it cannot be logically validated. It assumes the existence of an external causal agent and such an assumption lies beyond the reach of either scientific or philosophical enquiry. I adopt the alternative assumption of an eternal universe for the simple reason that to suggest otherwise is not a philosophical statement.

On balance you'd have to agree that the "universe with a beginning" hypothesis hasn't been working out all that well for those who insist on clinging to it.
surreptitious57
Posts: 4257
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: Questions we'll never solve

Post by surreptitious57 »

I myself have no absolute position on whether the Universe had a beginning or not for as I have said it is not currently known
So I am neutral with regard to it. But even if the Big Bang was actually the beginning it was only local cosmic expansion. And
so does not assume that it applies to all of non observable space too. This would include other Universes as well if they exist
User avatar
Hobbes' Choice
Posts: 8360
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:45 am

Re: Questions we'll never solve

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Obvious Leo wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
Obvious Leo wrote:
All of physics is Platonist and thus essentially creationist because it assumes a priori that the universe had a beginning
Even if this were true [ it is not ] it would not be scientifically valid unless it could be potentially falsified
Science has nothing to say about the nature of reality. For all it does is investigate observable phenomena
It is not actually known at this point in time whether the Universe had a beginning or not nor it is assumed
You're simply refuting what I say by saying what I refute which does not constitute an argument. The universe with a beginning is a statement of belief because it cannot be logically validated. It assumes the existence of an external causal agent and such an assumption lies beyond the reach of either scientific or philosophical enquiry. I adopt the alternative assumption of an eternal universe for the simple reason that to suggest otherwise is not a philosophical statement.

On balance you'd have to agree that the "universe with a beginning" hypothesis hasn't been working out all that well for those who insist on clinging to it.
Your assertion of an eternal universe is also a statement of belief no more or less philosophical that an assertion of a BB. Most wise scientists would remind you that the BB is no so much as a 'belief' for most of them, but an extrapolation of observations given a uniformitarianism premise. The BB saves the appearances of certain observational data, notably red shift, and the darkness of the night sky which both suggest expansion.
Whilst I agree that taking this observation to the enth degree right back to a singluar explosion is not necessarily warranted, and involves a lot of mathematical juggling, I think that for most scientists of repute the BB remains a theory which can never be verified.

When you choose to 'adopt an alternative' I can't see how this is MORE philosophical where the BB is not.
Obvious Leo
Posts: 4007
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 1:05 am
Location: Australia

Re: Questions we'll never solve

Post by Obvious Leo »

Hobbes. You are late to the conversation and have missed much of it. I don't dispute the BB for one moment but merely dispute the proposition that it was the beginning of the universe. My alternative hypothesis is the cyclical universe paradigm popularly know as the bang/crunch model. I have outlined a mechanism for this grounded in non-linear dynamic systems theory and offer it is as a superior paradigm on the grounds of Occam economy. A universe with a beginning mandates the existence of an external causal agent and the existence of such an agent lies beyond the reach of scientific or philosophical enquiry and thus by definition is unknowable.

There is also the non-trivial problem that the universe with a beginning hypothesis which informs all the current models of physics defines a universe which makes no fucking sense.
surreptitious57
Posts: 4257
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: Questions we'll never solve

Post by surreptitious57 »

Obvious Leo wrote:
There is also the non trivial problem that the universe with a beginning hypothesis which
informs all the current models of physics defines a universe which makes no fucking sense
It is not so much that the Big Bang is regarded as the beginning of the Universe per se. But that it is the furthest point back in time which can currently be investigated. For it is not known what happened before it. That however is not the same as saying that nothing happened before
it. Those are two entirely separate positions. Roger Penrose and Stephen Hawking who popularised the theory in the Seventies have both had second thoughts about it. Hawking thinks the Universe may be eternal. And Penrose s latest book is entitled What Came Before The Big Bang Cycles Of Time. So the notion that the Big Bang as the beginning of everything is the exclusive model in current physics is demonstrably false
Scott Mayers
Posts: 2485
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:53 am

Re: Questions we'll never solve

Post by Scott Mayers »

Obvious Leo wrote:Hobbes. You are late to the conversation and have missed much of it. I don't dispute the BB for one moment but merely dispute the proposition that it was the beginning of the universe. My alternative hypothesis is the cyclical universe paradigm popularly know as the bang/crunch model. I have outlined a mechanism for this grounded in non-linear dynamic systems theory and offer it is as a superior paradigm on the grounds of Occam economy. A universe with a beginning mandates the existence of an external causal agent and the existence of such an agent lies beyond the reach of scientific or philosophical enquiry and thus by definition is unknowable.

There is also the non-trivial problem that the universe with a beginning hypothesis which informs all the current models of physics defines a universe which makes no fucking sense.
Considering your 'cycling' universes, do you also believe that the initial condition of one universe returns to this same condition: a singularity with nothing in it? And if so, does each 'universe' repeat the exact course of events eternally?
User avatar
Hobbes' Choice
Posts: 8360
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:45 am

Re: Questions we'll never solve

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

surreptitious57 wrote:
Obvious Leo wrote:
There is also the non trivial problem that the universe with a beginning hypothesis which
informs all the current models of physics defines a universe which makes no fucking sense
It is not so much that the Big Bang is regarded as the beginning of the Universe per se. But that it is the furthest point back in time which can currently be investigated. For it is not known what happened before it. That however is not the same as saying that nothing happened before
it. Those are two entirely separate positions. Roger Penrose and Stephen Hawking who popularised the theory in the Seventies have both had second thoughts about it. Hawking thinks the Universe may be eternal. And Penrose s latest book is entitled What Came Before The Big Bang Cycles Of Time. So the notion that the Big Bang as the beginning of everything is the exclusive model in current physics is demonstrably false
I like the idea of a sort of eternal oscillation between expansion and contraction, but since, by definition, nothing can be said of the universe (observable universe) before the BB, then Of which we cannot speak we must remain silent. And I was never satisfied with the idea that a completely heat dead universe at the 'end of time', could start to contract back to a BB - caused by what exactly?

For all we know the observable universe might simply be a tiny area of reality of expansion caused by a local event in something much bigger,beyond our view. Do we really care?
surreptitious57
Posts: 4257
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: Questions we'll never solve

Post by surreptitious57 »

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
For all we know the observable universe might simply be a tiny area of reality of expansion caused by a local event
Absolutely right as the observable Universe is indeed not the totality of all space but simply local cosmic expansion
Obvious Leo
Posts: 4007
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 1:05 am
Location: Australia

Re: Questions we'll never solve

Post by Obvious Leo »

surreptitious57 wrote:
Obvious Leo wrote:
There is also the non trivial problem that the universe with a beginning hypothesis which
informs all the current models of physics defines a universe which makes no fucking sense
It is not so much that the Big Bang is regarded as the beginning of the Universe per se. But that it is the furthest point back in time which can currently be investigated. For it is not known what happened before it. That however is not the same as saying that nothing happened before
it. Those are two entirely separate positions. Roger Penrose and Stephen Hawking who popularised the theory in the Seventies have both had second thoughts about it. Hawking thinks the Universe may be eternal. And Penrose s latest book is entitled What Came Before The Big Bang Cycles Of Time. So the notion that the Big Bang as the beginning of everything is the exclusive model in current physics is demonstrably false
I don't deny any of this. Almost no physicist will claim that the big bang was the beginning of the universe and most will indeed say that the big bang is only a point in time of the universe before which physics is not designed to enquire. In fact I regard this a perfectly logical and scientific statement and one which I fully endorse. However it has important consequences for spacetime physics because it means these models are WRONG, because the Friedman equations still being used for GR unquestionably imply the existence of a singularity at the BB. Luckily the physicists are perfectly well of this impasse, and the singularity today is a much unloved hypothesis, however the current models simply cannot model a BB which was caused to occur because the low entropy assumption of the big bang is intrinsic to the statistical thermodynamics of the model. In other words the physicists are faced with the problem of using a paradigm which insists that the BB MUST have been the beginning of time as well as insisting that the BB cannot possibly have been the beginning of time. Not for a moment am I claiming that they're unaware of this dilemma but instead I'm claiming that their problem lies with their definitions of the existential nature of space and time. Trying to fit QM into GR is simply trying to shove a square peg into a round hole because of this exact problem and no amount of mathematical legerdemain will ever make that happen, as the string theorists have finally discovered after 40 years of fruitless effort.

It is for this reason that I claim that the impasse in physics is not a problem of physics at all but a problem of metaphysics. Physics proceeds from the inescapable assumption that there exists no metaphysical distinction between past, present and future and until such time as they excise this nonsense from their paradigm they will remain trapped in their logical cul-de-sac.
Obvious Leo
Posts: 4007
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 1:05 am
Location: Australia

Re: Questions we'll never solve

Post by Obvious Leo »

Scott Mayers wrote: Considering your 'cycling' universes, do you also believe that the initial condition of one universe returns to this same condition: a singularity with nothing in it? And if so, does each 'universe' repeat the exact course of events eternally?
No. My model rejects the notion of the singularity because the matter/energy content of the universe is finite and under the logical constraints of Cantorian set theory an infinite entity cannot be contained within a finite one. The singularity assumptions of the Friedman model are merely an unwarranted extrapolation of the Newtonian calculus beyond its domain of applicability and thus incompatible with the philosophy of the quantum. The mathematical tools of the calculus can perfectly model the way a system TENDS but they can make no statement about the system's final state. Thus we can say that in the case of the universe as a whole the first law of thermodynamics must trump the second.

Essentially what happens under this alternative scenario is this. Ultimately the universe collapses into the mother of all black holes but this is NOT a state of infinite gravitational collapse, merely maximal gravitational collapse. This is critically important for two reasons. Firstly in such a scenario time cannot stand still. It can slow down to a crawl relative to our conception of time but it cannot grind to a complete halt and thus some of its information must leak out into the future. Incidentally this was elegantly proven by Hawking, who is not my favourite physicist by any means, and I reckon he had a cockamamie way of going about his proof but if it works, what the hell?

The second and more important point to make about this non-infinite gravitational collapse is that such a collapse implies a high-entropy black hole rather than the low-entropy singularity. The evolutionary algorithm paradigm which I use to model my universe is predicated on a non-linear determinism and thus mandates a universe which evolves from a state of maximum (not infinite) disorder to a state of maximum ( not infinite) order, the exact opposite to that which is mandated by the linear determinism of spacetime physics but perfectly in accord with 13.8 billion years worth of evidence. Thus this final collapsed gravitational state of the universe can be seen as a phase shift whereby the universe transitions from a low entropy state to a high entropy state and starts all over again. Some minimal remnant of order must survive to kick the game of reality off again but the nature of this remnant cannot be determined by the final ordered state because such a determination is non-linear. In a sense we could say that the universe is its own dice-playing god because there is no reason whatsoever to suppose that the reborn universe would be anything like the one which gave birth to it. Max Tegmark put this idea rather nicely into words when he said that in an eternal universe anything that can happen will happen.

Those familiar with the philosophy of computation and information theory should be able to recognise such a cyclical universe as a Universal Turing Machine, the eternal and self-causal reality MAKER which programmes its own input and never repeats the same reality twice.

Those familiar with the philosophy of Baruch Spinoza will recognise this as the eternal universe of immanent cause which is sufficient to its own existence. It's a god-killer but I reckon his demise was long overdue anyway.
Obvious Leo
Posts: 4007
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 1:05 am
Location: Australia

Re: Questions we'll never solve

Post by Obvious Leo »

Hobbes' Choice wrote: I like the idea of a sort of eternal oscillation between expansion and contraction,
The notions of expansion and contraction are nothing more than mathematical metaphors in this spaceless model but I take your point because it is one which resonates very strongly with me as well. Undoubtedly there is an aspect of my personality which yearns for a physics aesthetic grounded in the notion that Simplicity is Truth and nothing appeals to simplicity more comprehensively than a universe such as this. However developing this philosophy has been my life's work and I never saw it as merely a poetic digression in quest of a universe which was more compatible with my conceptual taste. I was in search of a universe which was more compatible with millennia of philosophy and also one which was more compatible with the evidence. This paradigm takes nothing away from the hard-won epistemology of science but merely offers a more sound ontological framework to underpin it.
Obvious Leo
Posts: 4007
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 1:05 am
Location: Australia

Re: Questions we'll never solve

Post by Obvious Leo »

surreptitious57 wrote: Absolutely right as the observable Universe is indeed not the totality of all space but simply local cosmic expansion
This is a statement which has absolutely ZERO evidentiary support and furthermore it's one which makes no sense. With modern telescopes we can see almost all the way back to the big bang itself.
User avatar
Hobbes' Choice
Posts: 8360
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:45 am

Re: Questions we'll never solve

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Obvious Leo wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote: Absolutely right as the observable Universe is indeed not the totality of all space but simply local cosmic expansion
This is a statement which has absolutely ZERO evidentiary support and furthermore it's one which makes no sense. With modern telescopes we can see almost all the way back to the big bang itself.
True but....

But how likely is it that the total observable Universe is equal to the total universe?
This would seem prima facie a rather anthropocentric assumption, a bit like a kid holding his hands over his eyes thinking no one can see him.
Scott Mayers
Posts: 2485
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:53 am

Re: Questions we'll never solve

Post by Scott Mayers »

Obvious Leo wrote:
Scott Mayers wrote: Considering your 'cycling' universes, do you also believe that the initial condition of one universe returns to this same condition: a singularity with nothing in it? And if so, does each 'universe' repeat the exact course of events eternally?
No. My model rejects the notion of the singularity because the matter/energy content of the universe is finite and under the logical constraints of Cantorian set theory an infinite entity cannot be contained within a finite one.
1) You clearly don't count space as meaning anything. So my question from here is how you interpret expansion itself? If expansion to collapse means anything but space is not anything, why are you basing your theory on the very expansion of space you don't believe in?

2) If a fixed quantity of matter exists, why is this quantity special? That is, why is their X quantity of matter but not X + 1 or X - 1 etc.?

3) In your 'crunch', is there any space left?
The singularity assumptions of the Friedman model are merely an unwarranted extrapolation of the Newtonian calculus beyond its domain of applicability and thus incompatible with the philosophy of the quantum.
4) A singularity is inferred from the expansion of space to which I'm not sure you accept. If you do, do you think that this implies that space has an edge? I ask because I'm not sure if you understand how the singularity was inferred. To the scientists, they perceived space as infinite except at the singularity. This is because for any arbitrary small amount of spacial expansion, it goes from no space to an infinite amount instantly. Do you accept this interpretation?
Post Reply