How Do You Spot a Wise Man in a Crowd?

[Obvious Leo]

Since when is a forum governed by the formal rules of logic and debate?

You strike like a cobra right to the heart of the point, doc. I am a pedant who leaps to the unwarranted assumption that in a philosophy forum one might have a reasonable expectation that participants would honour the rules of engagement and deploy the tools of human reason in their commentary. You may call me either an idealist or simply naive but I am not a fascist. I don't insist that this must be done but merely evaluate the worth of a person's opinions in accordance with this principle.

Just to be clear, are you stating for certain that you are a Godless heathen? You appear to be a militant Atheist,

In the interests of clarity I shall satisfy your curiosity and clarify. Yes, I am indeed a godless heathen and No, I am not a militant atheist. I couldn't care less what people choose to believe about anything whatsoever but I reserve the right to take umbrage at any arsehole who imagines himself to be a better human being than I am just because he believes shit that I don't believe. Furthermore, since philosophy has been my life's work I also take offence at those who would misuse the tools of my trade to pursue a private agenda of their own for which these tools were not designed to be used. The existence or non-existence of god is not a legitimate subject for either scientific or philosophical enquiry since both of these disciplines depend on the interpretation of evidence. Please note that I don't accuse you of doing this, although there are others here to whom this criticism can be correctly applied.

New Zealand is a pretty country,

You are the master of understatement, doc. NZ is a beautiful country.

it's a pity that some people who live there aren't very nice.

I am a much travelled man, doc, and this has been my experience throughout the world. However on a proportional basis I would suggest that NZ has neither a higher nor a lower proportion of arseholes to nice people than most other places.

You and VT live there,

VT can naturally speak for herself but I don't live there, doc. I lived there for many years but for the past 37 years I have lived in Australia. However I still have family in NZ as well as many friends and I have always worked there quite a lot. I spend a lot of time there and feel certain that I know the place better than you do. However I'm always willing to be corrected. When were you last there and what was it that so upset you about the people?

[Hobbes' Choice]

You are not in a position to say what I do and do not understand.

When you post on a forum, those who read those posts are certainly in a position to say what you do not understand, based on those posts.

Here's where the thread went off line. If you'd not butted into the conversation, we might have achieved agreement.

[Hobbes' Choice]

I have no wish to interfere in a private spat, doc, but I find your position baffling.

Are you suggesting that only those who accept the bible as the word of god will be able to find any meaning in its parables?

Now I'm confused (not a difficult accomplishment I admit). Where are you getting the idea that thedoc is asserting that only those who accept the word of god will be able to find any meaning in biblical parables?

Wow, all this started over a homeless guy who allegedly does something extraordinary. Of course we can only conclude it never happened, I'm sure. It would be gullible and naïve to think otherwise. It's a conspiracy!!

I think we can clear this up.
What exactly do you think I "do not understand"?

[Gary Childress]

I have no wish to interfere in a private spat, doc, but I find your position baffling.

Are you suggesting that only those who accept the bible as the word of god will be able to find any meaning in its parables?

Now I'm confused (not a difficult accomplishment I admit). Where are you getting the idea that thedoc is asserting that only those who accept the word of god will be able to find any meaning in biblical parables?

Wow, all this started over a homeless guy who allegedly does something extraordinary. Of course we can only conclude it never happened, I'm sure. It would be gullible and naïve to think otherwise. It's a conspiracy!!

I think we can clear this up.
What exactly do you think I "do not understand"?

I think you don't understand why the homeless person in the story mentioned may possess wisdom.

[Hobbes' Choice]

I think you don't understand why the homeless person in the story mentioned may possess wisdom.

And I think you are too up yourself to see that he made a big mistake, because I demonstrated an alternative explanation that you did not engage with.
This does not indicate a lack of understanding on either of our parts. It simply reflects each of our opinions. But you reacting in that way means you are trying to take the moral high ground - easy since you are not homeless, and probably have never suffered from hardship.

My own experience of hardship would indicate to me that he had acquitted his duty as a citizen to hand the money in, but when it was offered to him as a reward he was quite within his rights to take it, and this in no way reflects badly on his character.

[Jaded Sage]

There is no doubt he is righteous, but what is the connection between that and wisdom?

[thedoc]

I'm still waiting on a report from him about his experiences in New Zealand because this is a country well known to me and his observations are a complete contradiction of my own.

"When were you in New Zealand?" is about as mature as saying "Put your money where your mouth is." Neither has any bearing on the validity of an opinion.

[Obvious Leo]

Are you claiming that your opinion about the character defects of the citizens of a country are equally valid whether you have ever visited the country or not?

How very American, doc.

[thedoc]

Are you claiming that your opinion about the character defects of the citizens of a country are equally valid whether you have ever visited the country or not?

How very American, doc.

Thankyou.

[Obvious Leo]

It astonishes me how many Americans are able to make such sweeping judgements about countries they've never been to. America has the lowest percentage of citizens who hold passports of any developed country in the world and the most self-referential media in the world. They truly have no idea whatsoever about what's going on outside their own country and possibly even less idea about what's happening within it. In 1998 your future president Bush didn't even know what fucking CONTINENT Libya was on but he wanted to bomb it anyway.

[thedoc]

America has the lowest percentage of citizens who hold passports of any developed country in the world and the most self-referential media in the world.

Why would an American need a passport? there is so much to see right here, not like Europe where you need a passport to go anywhere. It was only a few years ago that you even needed a passport to go to Canada.

[Obvious Leo]

Why would an American need a passport?

Travel broadens the mind, doc, and when it comes to narrow minds Americans are in a class of their own. I've never been to North Korea but my guess is that they would be your only rivals when it comes to being isolated from the rest of the world.

[thedoc]

Travel broadens the mind, doc, and when it comes to narrow minds Americans are in a class of their own. I've never been to North Korea but my guess is that they would be your only rivals when it comes to being isolated from the rest of the world.

That's what I've heard. I have an older brother who had a good job his whole life working for a company and a wife who never worked a day in her live but likes to spend money for show. When asked why she booked travel to her last country they went to visit, she said "We're running out of places that we haven't been to". I would suggest that she isn't benefiting from the travels they've been on, except when she brags to her friends about the places she's been. Since I avoid contact with her as much as possible I really can't say that travel has broadened her mind, but I doubt it. Travel would be good if you go to see, but not if you go to be seen. One difference between America and North Korea, we can go if we want to.

[thedoc]

Travel broadens the mind, doc, and when it comes to narrow minds Americans are in a class of their own.

I would assume that you have been to America and lived here for awhile?

[Obvious Leo]

Travel broadens the mind, doc, and when it comes to narrow minds Americans are in a class of their own.

I would assume that you have been to America and lived here for awhile?

Not so much in recent years but at various times in the past I've been there quite a lot, although I never actually lived there.

I would agree with you that travel doesn't broaden everybody's mind but in my experience it does for most. Obviously it won't have much effect on minds which imagine themselves in no need of broadening, which is not unique to American minds but far more common there.