Keys to Understanding Christianity: The Untangling

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Gustav Bjornstrand
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Keys to Understanding Christianity: The Untangling

Post by Gustav Bjornstrand »

"... no one could quite free it from its traces of delirium."


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This thread will be dedicated principally to the rather radical, but very interesting, ideas of Houston Chamberlain, viz. the historical figure of Jesus Christ and in contradistinction to the confusing edifice known as Christianity. Although for some, or most here, no part of this material will be understood, I am fairly sure that there are others who will take the time to read some of the material that will be posted to this thread, and benefit from it. In any case, the effort to write out ideas is always a benefit and I enjoy it.

I suggest it is crucial to understand historical Christianity, both to be able to unravel the deep superstitions that permeate it - obscurantism of the worst sort - and also to be able to grasp a quintessence that can be found there: a mercurial, perhaps 'suprarational' expression of truth. Essentially, this thread and my endeavor here will be a continuation of the thread I began quite sometime back now: Christian Apology by a Non-Christian. I find that the attack on Christianity, though I am certain an aspect of this is justified, reveals itself more as a destructive project than one that will or could result in productive understanding. If this is so, then the 'animus' of destructiveness can be examined and critiqued.

But I am pretty certain of the following: Only a person who has a grasp of 'what Christianity is' would be qualified to critique it - or to work to destroy it. My experience so far, and especially here on PM, is that the overall desire (the animus) is blindly destructive. This reflects a trend in culture that can and should be exposed and talked about.

The following are from Houston Chamberlain's book "Foundations of the Nineteenth Century", a two-volume work of amazing depth and breadth, yet not an uncontroversial book in that he is critical of the Jewish-Semitic influence on European culture. Coming myself from a Jewish background - more accurately a mixed family - I have some issues with his essentially anti-Jewish stance. Especially since the antisemitic formulations did evolve and result in the European catastrophe. In relation to this I have various levels of thought: I am certain that the Holocaust is greatly exaggerated, and so I fall into the camp of Jewish Revisionist. I know that that in itself will create insuperable fireworks on many fora and in all public conversations. So be it. The other aspect is that I am completely certain that Judaism as a trend in religion, and as a metaphysical trend, can indeed be critiqued. And - obviously - the conflict can roughly be delineated as a Christian-Jewish conflict. What is the essence of that conflict? That takes months if not years to understand.

The difficult word is 'antisemitism' and I suggest that it is one of these words that is so charged, and so convoluted, that it is almost impossible to use it. I think it is wise though to note that if one can define 'antisemitism' one must also be able to define 'philosemitism'. Put another way, if you love the Jews or the Jewish influence, or the presence of Jewish culture within host cultures, or the Judaism which is said to be the foundation of Christianity, then you should be able to speak about this convincingly and knowledgeably. But that will mean that one will have to have historical knowledge that is far more than superficial. [Hello Lacewing: How are you? ;-) ] And too if one is going to define an antisemitism that is more than simple hatred or projected anger because some blind sentiment dominates your perception, then this too would have to be grounded historically. And with that you will find yourself in the middle of the 'ur-culture-wars': the most salient wars of culture and idea that operate in 'our world'. To say 'our world' means the totality of what we are.

Only a certain aspect of Chamberlain's work deals on Jewish critique and the rest of it is - and articulately and with amazing erudition - an outline of the value of the European attainment: Indo-Europeanism, the foundation of our culture. An amazing and unprecedented attainment of a very high order.

So, people who have read my writing understand that I do not shy away from controversy. In fact, I think we need to put on the table all ideas, all declarations, all idées reçues, and similar to chugging down an impossible concoction that might kill us, make the effort to 'process' it all, and out of that struggle and that crisis, arrive at a surer metaphysical platform. It has to be said: anyone who now chooses to go in this direction - to penetrate to the very cores of ideation and belief (and I include those who, as here in this forum, assume erroneously that they undertake such a work when they are captured by received ideas and outright conventions of thinking), will find their project, and their ideas, shunned. Today, the mere mention of certain hot words, results instantaneously in a shutting down of the mind.

With that preamble, I submit some pages from the second volume of Chamberlain's book, and the chapter titled Religion - Christ and Christianity. To help you: his contention is that there is little connection between Jesus Christ and the mad and delirious superstitions of early Christianity.

I will attempt some interpretation of these first pages in other posts. Enjoy ... and if you can avoid it don't melt down!

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bobevenson
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Re: Keys to Understanding Christianity: The Untangling

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I believe the first 65 books of the Bible are merely wrapping paper to keep the book of Revelation, the 66th, from getting lost, like a small item in the supermarket that is attached to a piece of cardboard to keep it from falling through the shopping cart. In English gematria simplex (A=1 to Z=26), Christ adds up to 77, mankind to 66 and Satan to 55. Mankind is positioned between Christ and Satan in Ouzo combinations (viz., the bidding game of Ouzo).
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Re: Keys to Understanding Christianity: The Untangling

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bobevenson wrote:I believe the first 65 books of the Bible are merely wrapping paper to keep the book of Revelation, the 66th, from getting lost, like a small item in the supermarket that is attached to a piece of cardboard to keep it from falling through the shopping cart. In English gematria simplex (A=1 to Z=26), Christ adds up to 77, mankind to 66 and Satan to 55. Mankind is positioned between Christ and Satan in Ouzo combinations (viz., the bidding game of Ouzo).
Oh, for shit's sake, Bob, the Bible wasn't originally written in English.
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Gustav Bjornstrand
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Re: Keys to Understanding Christianity: The Untangling

Post by Gustav Bjornstrand »

I would suggest that with material like this, and possibly through a poem or scripture (or what is it?) like Revelations, that we come face to face with 'delirium', at least in the sense that Chamberlain would have us understand. If this is so, and if the advent of this personage 'Jesus' represents a real and considerable thing, in time, in history, or in the evolution of human possibilities, heralding new or unforeseen possibilities (again, this is Chamberlain's position), I would also be inclined to see all the superstitionism of historical Christianity as evidence of delirium. I think we could also safely say that lots or people are attracted to the superficial, the fantastic, the 'weird', the mysterious, and get sucked in by it. According to Chamberlain, the 'message' is far more sublime and deals with freedom at the highest levels, a way and a means to consider the highest possibilities of self-realization within our existence.
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Re: Keys to Understanding Christianity: The Untangling

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"No, no, no!" Jeremiah Wright says, it's in the Bible - God damn America for...This is the central key to understanding every Christian: Christians know that the way to Heaven by God's word is the 10 Commandments. For sins they suffer the Purgatory, for much sinful life they go to Hell.
Now, the modern 10 Commandments are core of 10 Commandments, the spirit of it plus modern Laws and Regulations.

So the essential Christian life is according to the geist of the Bible, including the Jesus thing as saviour, guide to the Bible, plus accordance to laws and regulations (see respective country). Also to reject evil behaviour.

In addition, Christians are guided by the seven Cardinal Virtues and the seven Cardinal Sins in being prepared for Heaven.

Then, one for myself:
I'm the World's greatest, truly a superpower, the highest intelligence conceivable! I am the one and only!
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Gustav Bjornstrand
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Re: Keys to Understanding Christianity: The Untangling

Post by Gustav Bjornstrand »

Necromancer wrote:Christians know that the way to Heaven by God's word is the 10 Commandments. For sins they suffer the Purgatory, for much sinful life they go to Hell.
More superstitionism born out of 'the chaos'. Even the notion of 'salvation' has to be reexamined. As well as the notion that there are ontological 'levels' to Existence. 'Sin' too would require a thorough reexamination. 'Hell' would seem to me to be the most superstitiously-drenched notion with very clear links to pagan and childlike conceptions. If 'Heaven is within' then what could 'hell' possibly mean?

The questions are meant to imply that - as Chamberlain proposes - we seem not to be grasping what is being talked about. If there is an essence, a message, a meaning, What is it?
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Re: Keys to Understanding Christianity: The Untangling

Post by bobevenson »

Dalek Prime wrote:
bobevenson wrote:I believe the first 65 books of the Bible are merely wrapping paper to keep the book of Revelation, the 66th, from getting lost, like a small item in the supermarket that is attached to a piece of cardboard to keep it from falling through the shopping cart. In English gematria simplex (A=1 to Z=26), Christ adds up to 77, mankind to 66 and Satan to 55. Mankind is positioned between Christ and Satan in Ouzo combinations (viz., the bidding game of Ouzo).
Oh, for shit's sake, Bob, the Bible wasn't originally written in English.
The book of Revelation was written in Greek in 96AD, but the divinely inspired English translation is the KJV of 1611 as edited in 1946. By the way, the divine certification of English gematria simplex is that the Greek form of Jesus (Iesous) adds up to 888 in classical Greek gematria and 88 in E.g.s., 1 above the mystical perfection of 7's.
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Gustav Bjornstrand
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Re: Keys to Understanding Christianity: The Untangling

Post by Gustav Bjornstrand »

Chamberlain writes of a 'chaos of peoples' when referring to the early church and the foundation of the Christian religion. In those early days it was anything but decided. The advent of this personage - and I would myself suggest that there had to be a real personage there and that the force behind all manifestations of Christianity depend on and resolve back into a personality, a person - seemed to spark large, continuing and not yet abated changes in ... essentially everything to do with perception. I think this is a safe and yet useful reduction. Seen in this way this personage proposes a radical and new way to see. Or how else would one define it, essentially?

In those early days, in the confluence of culture in the Mediterranean world, every religious, pietistic, magical, mystical, ascetic, as well as worldly and political trend came to focus itself into and through the early-forming Christian religion. What it was - originally, in its manifestation - who can say? It seemed to depend on one man whose activity was anything but transparent. It would seem that everything said and done appeared as a puzzle and no one could make any sense of it.

Yet very soon afterward a mass of confluences poured into it: misconceptions, tendentious interpretations, programs for 'salvation', ecclesiastical social-control programs, the channeling of superstition - possibly unavoidable - into a 'cogent' program around which people could be organised. And as this un-comprehended event (advent) took form in the Roman world, it seems it was distorted and twisted in all manner of different ways. We might apply a metaphor: Clear bright sunlight as it enters a body of water will refract and distort and the further it penetrates the more distorted it becomes. Mustn't we recognise that man's consciousness is as such dense, distorting material? The purest light, in the darkest mind, becomes spooky with impositions and contaminations that we carry around inside of ourselves.
Houston Chamberlain wrote:And yet never before was there such an intoxication of religious feeling as spread at that time from the banks of the Euphrates to Rome. Indian mysticism, which in all manner of corrupt forms had penetrated as far as Asia Minor, Chaldaic star-worship, Zoroastric worship of Ormuzd and the fire-worship of the magicians, Egyptian asceticism and the doctrine of immortality, Syrian and Phoenician orgiasm and the delusion of the sacrament, Samothracian, Eleusinian and all other kinds of Hellenic mysteries, curiously disguised outcrops of Pythagorean, Empodoclean and Platonic metaphysics, Mosaic propaganda, Stoical ethics - all were circling in a mad whirl. Men no longer knew what religion meant, but they gave everything a trial, in the dim consciousness that they had been robbed of something which was as necessary to them as the sun to the Earth. Into this world came the word of Christ; and it was by these fever-stricken men that the visible structure of the Christian religion was erected; no one could quite free it from the traces of delirium.
Obviously, Chamberlain sees these distortions as both unavoidable and necessary - and one assumes that he understands the motion of history as one in which a creative spirit is at work - but he has no illusions about the force and effect of erroneous superstition and the deviations that can occur as men define a praxis for life-lived. Indeed his project is to clearly sort through it all and assign names to each distortion, and to each noble impetuous, and he examines it all with a unique and penetrating insight: highly modern, but highly refined, clear, acute, decisive, suffering few illusions, desirous to permit none.

It is also true that he understands the European World and its attainment - as it focussed in the 19th Century - as being an outcome at the most basic level of coming to grip with the Revelation of Christ. I do not say this as apologist for him (or Christianity) but as a statement of fact about how Chamberlain sees the world. He sees the advent of Christ as the central event around which Mediterranean and European culture coalesces. Myself, I think this is more than an idea or a 'projected hope'; it seems to be a fact of European history. Even if one believes no part of the metaphysic, the fact is unavoidable.

What is also interesting to think on is that we are now in an immense 'chaos of peoples', a chaos of ideas. I suggest that the confluence of all manner of different ideas, sentiments, forces, beliefs, propositions, outlines, visions, views and possibilities ... has accelerated in our present to a mad pitch. And thus we are in a 'fever-stricken' state and caught up in a very real 'delirium':
  • "...all were circling in a mad whirl."
It is interesting in that light to examine the opinions and ideas more or less barfed out of people's diseased and overheated brains ... on this very forum. Men desire to believe they understand, and they understand NOTHING.

True or false?
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Re: Keys to Understanding Christianity: The Untangling

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One comment, please: Isn't it so that what we now call the Bible (let's assume the Catholic) has been collected through several hundred years, like the Gospels that are in common with Judaism and its Torah? A lot seems to have taken place before Christianity proper has broken through to its daylight. It seems indeed that without the New Testament, there could have been a lot of Jews walking planet Earth, assuming Christians to be Jews by such a chain of events. Social dynamics of this kind or that, now what?

Cheers!

(Thanks for your writing, Gustav!)
Last edited by Necromancer on Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Gustav Bjornstrand
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Re: Keys to Understanding Christianity: The Untangling

Post by Gustav Bjornstrand »

I appreciate your affirmation. As to your questions, I am not sure I understand what you are getting at. Can you clarify?
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Re: Keys to Understanding Christianity: The Untangling

Post by Necromancer »

Gustav Bjornstrand wrote:I appreciate your affirmation. As to your questions, I am not sure I understand what you are getting at. Can you clarify?
As your own posting suggests, there are a few hundred years of unfolding history that's part of forming Christianity. This complexity is something opposite the making of the Quran that has only one author and far more definite time of coming into one volume of work. Especially the Old Testament seems to have "travelled" far before us and how we read it.

As history should note it:
Timeline of the Old Testament, not inside the story itself, but a matter of creation of the text itself upto our days of reading it.
Timeline of the New Testament, also not the 0 AD, but the creation of the New Testament as text before common translation to occur.

Fx. "The first hand-written English language Bible manuscripts were produced in the 1380's AD by John Wycliffe, an Oxford professor, scholar, and theologian." Source: http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-engli ... e-history/.

Also: http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-engli ... ation.html.
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